big tank small T

[esmoot]

Steve. I did not say 80 t's. I said 80 sp. not that that matters. Anyone with the $$$ can have the same claim, for a while at least. That's not the point.

With the exception of a few, none of my t's are in a enclosure larger than 5 gallons. I have a few of my 8"+ breeder females in 10-15 gallon homes but that's it. If we agree on care for the most part (you can tell me where you disagree) why is it stressful to them? How do t's cope with this in nature?

Eric

 

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by esmoot
Steve. I did not say 80 t's. I said 80 sp.

Yeah, that was a stupid thing to say, my apologies Eric.

With the exception of a few, none of my t's are in a enclosure larger than 5 gallons. I have a few of my 8"+ breeder females in 10-15 gallon homes but that's it. If we agree on care for the most part (you can tell me where you disagree) why is it stressful to them? How do t's cope with this in nature?

Well you and I keep our T's the same, I don't disagree with the way you keep them at all. My only concern here is that a positive belief in keeping T's in overly large enclosures can be bad advice to a newbie. Sure, many can tell when their T is stressed (as pelo mentioned) and correct the situation quickly, but I worry about those who couldn't tell whether or not a T is really stressed.

Steve

 

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Steve Nunn
Yeah, that was a stupid thing to say, my apologies Eric.

That's fine and all, glad to see you two make up, but I want to know if you can really fart 80 Ts? As rare as Australian Ts are outside of Australia, that sounds like a money making opportunity for getting them past customs - just be sure to avoid the beans before your international flight.

=D =D

 

[MrFeexit]

hehheehehehheheheheheheheehehe =D

 

[esmoot]

Originally posted by Steve Nunn
Yeah, that was a stupid thing to say, my apologies Eric.

Well you and I keep our T's the same, I don't disagree with the way you keep them at all. My only concern here is that a positive belief in keeping T's in overly large enclosures can be bad advice to a newbie. Sure, many can tell when their T is stressed (as pelo mentioned) and correct the situation quickly, but I worry about those who couldn't tell whether or not a T is really stressed.

Steve

Yea new t owners tend to go for the large enclosure. Steve you need to work on some of those export laws in your country and send us some t's.

 

[MrT]

Originally posted by esmoot
How do t's cope with this in nature?

Eric

Eric,
That is the point, they don't cope with it in nature.
Their life, their whole world is the little burrow at the bottom of the tunnel.
I,ve dug up many, many T burrows in the desert, and everyone of them, so far, ends the same way. A chamber about the size of small petpal, sometimes smaller.
I've seen babys dispersing from Mom's burrow, only to crawl into the first crack or hole they come to. I've seen a 3/4" baby T within 3' of an adult females burrow. I'm almost sure it was its mom.

So IMHO, the T's only have to cope in captivity.
Therefore, if were only talking about the T's welfare only, a smaller enclosure would be less stressful.

Ernie

 

[MrFeexit]

HEY I just had this stupid thought hit my head. (its late and stupid thoughts hit me alot) OK some humans live in small enclosures (dorms) and some live in huge ass enclosures (not my house) we do fine for the most part ( except for that guy down my street with all the junk in his driveway) told you it was stupid. OK sleepy time

 

[conipto]

Well, I like many others here, keep the majority of my T's in Petpal/Kritter Keeper things. The ones about the size of a 2 gallon aquarium, if even that. The only ones in larger terrariums are my Haplopelma sp. "aureopilosum" that I let settle down in a ten gallon so I could be more at ease in breeding it, and I have my C. fasciatums living together in an approx 7 gallon rubbermaid container - in their old KK homes, without lids. The male goes back and forth between them, but rarely does the female leave hers (except to get it on on the edges now and then)

I don't neccessarily subscribe to the 'stress out your T's in large containers' school of thought, because well.. that's nature. Waste of space? I agree completely. Another thing to consider, is what happens if you get a day long cold spell in your bug room/closet/bedroom/attic/whatever. I can attest to the fact, as I'm sure many others can, that most T's can survive cold extremes for SHORT amounts of time. If it takes your ten gallon tank with 8 gallons of peat as long to warm up as it did to get cold, you very well could kill your T.

Another thought, one I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned: Alot of people on this board like to fatten up their T's to ridiculous extremes (IMO) and unless you're piling up substrate, you run the risk of the "Fat T Fall and explode".

I will say one thing about having all aquariums, of any size... It looks nice. I've seen several pictures of rooms full of T's that have identical sized aquariums, and it looks really sharp. Ed's all black kritter keeper setup looks nice too, so choose your side

Bill

 

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by Code Monkey
but I want to know if you can really fart 80 Ts? As rare as Australian Ts are outside of Australia, that sounds like a money making opportunity for getting them past customs - just be sure to avoid the beans before your international flight.

You think it's funny, you don't have to deal with the skid marks, not to mention when I'm wearing my sequined g-string.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by esmoot
Steve you need to work on some of those export laws in your country and send us some t's.

I just need to travel without the g-string, eat well before I leave, eat really bad when I arrive and not dance my a$$ off in the plane (which shouldn't be too hard considering I won't be in my "dance costume" )

Nah, I was a poor record keeper early in the piece and it's something that has really slowed this process down to nearly a total stop. Hopefully, it won't be too much longer, this has already gone on for a year more then it had to.

Steve

 

[Parsnipfashion]

I think a distiction is needed also between arboreals and terestrials species wrt enclosure size stressing the T. For arboreals, I do not believe a large vivarium will stress the T and is necessary if housing communial groups of avics or pokes. However, these spiders will normally make their web tubes in one corner of the tank and rarely venture far from that place (therefore a large enclosure at least for an arboreal is as stated unnessary but doesn't do any real harm providing food is freely available). However, as has been rightly stated on this thread already, terrestrials species often do not burrow in captivity perhaps because they treat their enclosure as a substitute retreat and therefore I agree that large tanks (however well set-up with all good intentions) may stress the spider. Perhaps if you have a spider such as a rosie (which rarely burrows in captivity but (contrary to some reports describing these T's as nomadic) does in the wild) attempting to burrow in a vivarium, it could be a sign that the spider feels exposed and then you must ask yourself if you have provided that spider with enough sustrate to construct a burrow with underground chamber perhaps 12 to 24" under the surface.

 

[Ultimate Instar]

I can think of a few good reasons for having a larger cage. If you have an P. murinus who considers her small petpal to be her "den", well, go stick your hand in there. I wouldn't even like putting my 18" forceps in there. On the other hand, if you can convince the T to hide under the corkbark, the margin of safety is a lot bigger. At least, I never get a threat display from my Ts.

Digging machines like C. crawshayi may appreciate larger quarters. At least, in her 20 gal. aquarium, my T digs tunnels throughout the cage.

If your power goes out, you may be better off with a lot of substrate since it will take longer to cool off. At least, that's true in my setup because I use heating pads against the side to provide a thermal gradient, and my Ts will thermoregulate by moving around the enclosure. I also make one end of the cage more humid than the other and provide enough shelters to offer a choice of location. Yeah, I realize, this is overkill, but it seems to work for me and my Ts do not appear stressed out.

Karen N.