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they never blinked at the decrease in their space.
Thats cuz they don't have eylids...
Thats cuz they don't have eylids...
big tank small T
- Thread starter chuck
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I wondered who would make that comment
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yeah...then I go and spell eyelid wrong.:8o
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I think there's too much tendency to try and analyze what your T wants or needs in terms of a mammalian brain. What your T wants is to feel secure and to be able to find food, it doesn't want wide open vistas and beautiful sunsets.
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Crickets and a cave baby...crickets and a cave.
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I've used 10 gallon tanks before and I agree, they usually don't use much of the availible space if they have a good hide and can propperly set up house. Personally, I use smaller tanks because they meet the requirements of the T and allow me to have more of them on my desk! When my parahybanas get bigger I'll ghave to get some decent sized tanks for them, and there are some other species I'll soon be adding to my collection that exceed 8" which will also require bigger enclosures, but as for the 4" to 6" species I see no need for anything bigger than a 5.5gal, and even that can be excessive for some Ts. My A.seemani for instance hardly ever leaves her hide, which is a ceramic log. She'd do find in a 2.5 gal even though she's a solid 6". If someone who only has a few Ts wants to set up a display 20gal for a B.smithi just so they can really go nuts on making it look kewl though, as long as it has it's necessities reasonably close together I don't think it hurts anything.
When my parahybanas get bigger I'll ghave to get some decent sized tanks for them, and there are some other species I'll soon be adding to my collection that exceed 8" which will also require bigger enclosures, but as for the 4" to 6" species I see no need for anything bigger than a 5.5gal, and even that can be excessive for some Ts. My A.seemani for instance hardly ever leaves her hide, which is a ceramic log. She'd do find in a 2.5 gal even though she's a solid 6". If someone who only has a few Ts wants to set up a display 20gal for a B.smithi just so they can really go nuts on making it look kewl though, as long as it has it's necessities reasonably close together I don't think it hurts anything.Hmmm. I meant of course not that different people see different needs of tarantulas, but rather that I don't want to look at a T in a cell, happy T or unhappy T.
Regardless, I believe in larger enclosures, for mimicking reality (however you spell mimiccing) as much as possible, and really couldn't care less if ms. Adult Avic avic is actually equally happy in a spicejar as in a 10 gallon aquarium.
EDit : I remember having a debate with Paul Day about this.
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I like to be able to sculpt a landscape and terrain. Wether the T feels great about it. I personally like to have a complete display as opposed to a "T in a box" But thats just me and me alone. Me and a tasty Point Beer, yup Me a Point Beer and some Kettle Corn, Yup...
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There are legitimate reasons for keeping T's in small enclosures. As Ernie mentioned, nearly all T's live within a foot of their burrows. Also, a large enclosure will stress out a spider that chooses not to burrow. Understand that most T's will burrow in the wild, but forego such a burrow in captivity. Quite often they will treat the entire enclosure like it was a burrow. Those of you who keep OBT's know what I mean. You've seen all the silk in the enclosure, that's because they think the whole tank is the burrow. You would never see that much silk outside a burrow in the wild.
I'm also sure many of you have tried a large enclosure, only to see the T sit in one corner, never to move, unless it's climbing the walls trying to escape.
I've read too many times in published tarantula books about roaming or "vagrant" T's. This is SO, SO rare it's not even worth taking into consideration. Look at all your Brachypelma spp., even though most won't burrow in captivity, they all possess burrows in the wild, I can garantee it (regardless of what the books say).
Honestly, when taking into account the ecology and behaviour of theraphosids, it only makes sense to minimalize enclosure size, it's one of the keys to happy T's IMO (well, that and an ever present opportunity to burrow for every species).
Cheers,
Steve
I'm also sure many of you have tried a large enclosure, only to see the T sit in one corner, never to move, unless it's climbing the walls trying to escape.
I've read too many times in published tarantula books about roaming or "vagrant" T's. This is SO, SO rare it's not even worth taking into consideration. Look at all your Brachypelma spp., even though most won't burrow in captivity, they all possess burrows in the wild, I can garantee it (regardless of what the books say).
Honestly, when taking into account the ecology and behaviour of theraphosids, it only makes sense to minimalize enclosure size, it's one of the keys to happy T's IMO (well, that and an ever present opportunity to burrow for every species).
Cheers,
Steve
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My A. semanni is in a 10 gal, it has an extensive burrow beneath it's hide including a back door, and it likes to roam around and roll substrate logs into the water bowl. Here's my setup, (just cleaned out the water bowl.)
Steve: Well, I've never seen any of my ( 2 ) terrestrials sit in one corner and look terrified, even if they don't burrow (general excavation-work doesn't count ).. so I still feel that with a hidey-oppurtunity and possibility to dig, bigger tanks are at least no worse for the T, and better for me.
This might of course change though, if ever I get a terrestrial other than a Parahybana or a Cobalt redrump (or start listening to other people).
) terrestrials sit in one corner and look terrified, even if they don't burrow (general excavation-work doesn't count ).. so I still feel that with a hidey-oppurtunity and possibility to dig, bigger tanks are at least no worse for the T, and better for me.This might of course change though, if ever I get a terrestrial other than a Parahybana or a Cobalt redrump (or start listening to other people).
If burrowing sp. are not burrowing in a large enclosure something is wrong. In a small enclosure they feel that the enclosure is the burrow. If you have them in a larger enclosure and they don't burrow, you need to make some changes. Probably the substrate.
This has to be where the "too big" BS came from. How many times do we have to go over this? It's just common sence that there is no too big if you provide the propper care. If you are doing things right you can not go too big. There is no real advantage either. It is much easier to keep most t's happy and healthy in a smaller enclosure so most including myself do.
This has to be where the "too big" BS came from. How many times do we have to go over this? It's just common sence that there is no too big if you provide the propper care. If you are doing things right you can not go too big. There is no real advantage either. It is much easier to keep most t's happy and healthy in a smaller enclosure so most including myself do.
i heard that OBTs could live as an arboreal or take to hides. If i give her a PVC pipe to hide in and a piece of cork bark for decorative purposes, will she burrow or take to the pipe? She'll probably go with the cork bark just because i dont want her too:}
well in a day or 2 ill be moving her, ill tell you how it goes, and if i dont get back to this that means i got bitten
well in a day or 2 ill be moving her, ill tell you how it goes, and if i dont get back to this that means i got bitten
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If you provide the "proper care" then the tank wouldn't be too big.
Honestly, it does and will stress the T. If you guys just don't want to believe that or think I'm talking out of my butt that's fine too.
I'm sure you all know what's best in the end.....
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Well, as much as I think it's useless and extra trouble, it is possible to provide enough hiding and/or burrowing areas to keep the T unstressed. Of course at that point, you've got a happy T using 20% of a large tank and steadfastly avoiding the other 80%.
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Mine seems to use all of it's tank (not saying you're wrong, I only have one T and haven't had it much longer than two or three months)
see the pic I posted above
It has an extensive burrow inside a large hide, for some reason crickets avoid it. It comes out and hunts down the crickets and after it eats it will roam around exploring, roll some dirt into its water bowel then go back into hiding. It comes out to roam every night too, late at night then goes back to it's hide in the morning.
Steve, I know you are a very experienced t guy but come on. First of all we both know that there is no real reason for a large enclosure. A tarantula will not use extra room to roam and play or anything like that. That's not the point. The point is it will not hurt them if they have the proper setup.
Where does your theory come from? Are you saying t's in the wild all live in Petpals? The reason t's have problems in large enclosures is that unlike the wild they can only choose to make their home where you provided it. If you can't provide the proper substrate, hide or platform to build off of they are screwed. It's much easier to blame the t than it is to blame the keeper. It's the keepers responsibility to provide a enclosure satisfactory to the t. If you fail to do so the t will be "insecure" and not perform its normal behaviors.
If you are basing your theory on your own experiences then check out what you are doing and see why you have stressed t’s.
Consider what I’m saying. I have over 80 sp. and too have been keeping and breeding t’s for a while.
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Well, that's the point, what is the "proper setup".
It's not my theory, it has been around for the longest time, too much space is a waste and WILL possibly stress the T. If you think I'm speaking crap ask Rick, Breene, Raven, take your pick, they'll all say ther same. Of course with the right hide a T will be happy regardless, providing that T is cared for correctlly. NEWS FLASH ESMOOT- not everyone knows how to care for their T's totally. Nobody does, so it's got to be best to provide care as best we know how, a small enclosure is a part of that. And I don't think T's live in petpals in the wild, at least not last time I checked.
The silly thing is I agree with you when you get into detail (well, some of it), but when you stated "that too big BS" that just went against what we do know about T's. I think I once farted 80 T's in a year.
Steve
>>I believe it.I recently moved my I.hirsutum slings from their vials to a larger container.They stopped eating,stopped webbing and barely ever moved from one spot.At first I thought they just had to get used their new enclosure but they wouldn't settle in ...so back into the smaller vials they went.Almost immediately they started webbing again and shortly after took a pinhead each.I believe no matter what size the T...a smaller enclosure is better than one too large...peace..