At what point does a feeding become a cruel "bug fight"?

[Moakmeister]

A crayfish would demolish any tarantula.....there would be almost nothing a t could do with that hard exoskeleton.

At laptop now

I'm not gonna dispute your point there. Honestly, I DO think a big tarantula could bite through a crawfish's carapace, but I've got arguments besides "yeah it could "

Think of a crawfish's underside, which, like nearly all arthropods, is a much weaker area of its exoskeleton by virtue of being where all of its legs connect, and needing to articulate. Why's this important? Think of how a tarantula bites its prey. They do it every time - it's one of the advantages of the mygalomorph fangs being parallel. They reach over top of the prey, and their fangs hook underneath and stab the belly. where the armor is weakest in theory. The prey is pinned between the fangs and the T's underside.

But how's the tarantula gonna manage to do that? A crawfish is much larger than the food a tarantula would normally be willing to go after. And it's got those claws of course. But the tarantula has its legs. The legs are its second best weapons. Its feet are covered with those hairs that enable it to stick to smooth glass - and they're also used for catching and manipulating prey. The same hairs that cling to glass also cling to their opponent and can be used for simply sweeping them towards their fangs, or to hold down and pin it. I've seen footage of tarantulas actually holding down a scorpion's tail, manhandling the thing and delivering the bite. With eight legs, they can do all of that and still bite. A tarantula could absolutely push a crawfish's claws out of the way, and either pull it under itself or simply clamber over top of it and stab the underside with the fangs. It'd be over in a couple of seconds.

I'm never doing it. But I bet that's what'd happen.

 

[cold blood]

At laptop now

I'm not gonna dispute your point there. Honestly, I DO think a big tarantula could bite through a crawfish's carapace, but I've got arguments besides "yeah it could "

Think of a crawfish's underside, which, like nearly all arthropods, is a much weaker area of its exoskeleton by virtue of being where all of its legs connect, and needing to articulate. Why's this important? Think of how a tarantula bites its prey. They do it every time - it's one of the advantages of the mygalomorph fangs being parallel. They reach over top of the prey, and their fangs hook underneath and stab the belly. where the armor is weakest in theory. The prey is pinned between the fangs and the T's underside.

But how's the tarantula gonna manage to do that? A crawfish is much larger than the food a tarantula would normally be willing to go after. And it's got those claws of course. But the tarantula has its legs. The legs are its second best weapons. Its feet are covered with those hairs that enable it to stick to smooth glass - and they're also used for catching and manipulating prey. The same hairs that cling to glass also cling to their opponent and can be used for simply sweeping them towards their fangs, or to hold down and pin it. I've seen footage of tarantulas actually holding down a scorpion's tail, manhandling the thing and delivering the bite. With eight legs, they can do all of that and still bite. A tarantula could absolutely push a crawfish's claws out of the way, and either pull it under itself or simply clamber over top of it and stab the underside with the fangs. It'd be over in a couple of seconds.

I'm never doing it. But I bet that's what'd happen.

The only part of a crayfish that's not armored, is the undersized of the tail....one pinch, leg gone, another and the carapace is crushed....and the abdomen....lol, a pincher hits that and the battle is over.

We are gonna have to disagree on this one Moak.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

At laptop now

I'm not gonna dispute your point there. Honestly, I DO think a big tarantula could bite through a crawfish's carapace, but I've got arguments besides "yeah it could "

Think of a crawfish's underside, which, like nearly all arthropods, is a much weaker area of its exoskeleton by virtue of being where all of its legs connect, and needing to articulate. Why's this important? Think of how a tarantula bites its prey. They do it every time - it's one of the advantages of the mygalomorph fangs being parallel. They reach over top of the prey, and their fangs hook underneath and stab the belly. where the armor is weakest in theory. The prey is pinned between the fangs and the T's underside.

But how's the tarantula gonna manage to do that? A crawfish is much larger than the food a tarantula would normally be willing to go after. And it's got those claws of course. But the tarantula has its legs. The legs are its second best weapons. Its feet are covered with those hairs that enable it to stick to smooth glass - and they're also used for catching and manipulating prey. The same hairs that cling to glass also cling to their opponent and can be used for simply sweeping them towards their fangs, or to hold down and pin it. I've seen footage of tarantulas actually holding down a scorpion's tail, manhandling the thing and delivering the bite. With eight legs, they can do all of that and still bite. A tarantula could absolutely push a crawfish's claws out of the way, and either pull it under itself or simply clamber over top of it and stab the underside with the fangs. It'd be over in a couple of seconds.

I'm never doing it. But I bet that's what'd happen.

crawfish armor is too strong . Claws are too sharp , I don’t think even a Goliath would win. The spider would probably run away.
Scorpions would win unless it was a tiny one.

 

[Gevo]

It'd be over in a couple of seconds.

Death by tarantula is not usually over in a few seconds. Species would affect all this, certainly, and size, but still—like I mentioned before, it’s not unusual to come back an hour later and still see a hornworm or cricket moving around in the tarantula’s chelicerae. One reason superworms can be dangerous if not beheaded or seriously incapacitated is because they can turn around and bite the tarantula while they’re being eaten.

Tarantulas’ venom isn’t always as incapacitating or fast-acting as people think, so when we don’t give them prey that are easy for them to manage, we’re always putting them at risk. Many probably die in the wild that way.

 

[Moakmeister]

Death by tarantula is not usually over in a few seconds. Species would affect all this, certainly, and size, but still—like I mentioned before, it’s not unusual to come back an hour later and still see a hornworm or cricket moving around in the tarantula’s chelicerae. One reason superworms can be dangerous if not beheaded or seriously incapacitated is because they can turn around and bite the tarantula while they’re being eaten.

Tarantulas’ venom isn’t always as incapacitating or fast-acting as people think, so when we don’t give them prey that are easy for them to manage, we’re always putting them at risk. Many probably die in the wild that way.

I meant the fight would be over in seconds, not that the crawfish would die in a few seconds

 

[Westicles]

It still boggles my mind that we're talking about a tarantula vs a crayfish fight. Who would win? What does it matter?

 

[Nitroxide]

No opinion on crawfish vs tarantula - but on the main question, I wouldn't want to feed a big to a T just to see the fight. I don't necessarily value any bug over another, except what is healthy for my spiders and easiest for them to kill as soon as possible so they get a good meal.

Certain bugs like crickets can be a bit more inconvenient as they jump but I always sit and watch them until they eat their prey so it's not a big deal, but they mostly pounce on their prey or just don't eat so I remove them. I wouldn't feed anything dangerous to them and do feel bad when I see the bugs struggle for too long. So overall they get what is easiest and convenient for them.

 

[gambite]

a crustacean exoskeleton is a lot more rigid than terrestrial invertebrates', I would be really surprised if a tarantula could get its fangs through. iirc crustaceans' exo is supplemented with calcium carbonate to some degree (I think??) vs inverts who just have chitin.

Arthropod exoskeleton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

> Typically the mineral crystals, mainly calcium carbonate, are deposited among the chitin and protein molecules in a process called biomineralization. The crystals and fibres interpenetrate and reinforce each other, the minerals supplying the hardness and resistance to compression, while the chitin supplies the tensile strength. Biomineralization occurs mainly in crustaceans. In insects and arachnids, the main reinforcing materials are various proteins hardened by linking the fibres in processes called sclerotisation and the hardened proteins are called sclerotin. The dorsal tergum, ventral sternum, and the lateral pleura form the hardened plates or sclerites of a typical body segment.

 

[Moakmeister]

a crustacean exoskeleton is a lot more rigid than terrestrial invertebrates', I would be really surprised if a tarantula could get its fangs through. iirc crustaceans' exo is supplemented with calcium carbonate to some degree (I think??) vs inverts who just have chitin.

Arthropod exoskeleton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

> Typically the mineral crystals, mainly calcium carbonate, are deposited among the chitin and protein molecules in a process called biomineralization. The crystals and fibres interpenetrate and reinforce each other, the minerals supplying the hardness and resistance to compression, while the chitin supplies the tensile strength. Biomineralization occurs mainly in crustaceans. In insects and arachnids, the main reinforcing materials are various proteins hardened by linking the fibres in processes called sclerotisation and the hardened proteins are called sclerotin. The dorsal tergum, ventral sternum, and the lateral pleura form the hardened plates or sclerites of a typical body segment.

Tarantulas and scorpions also use magnesium and zinc deposits to harden their fangs/stingers, tarsal claws, and chelae edges for scorpions.

 

[sTephenS]

As someone only 2 months into having t’s feeding them is the 1 area I struggle with. As an empath I absolutely feel bad for causing the demise of another living being regardless of how small or seemingly insignificant it is. I’m not god and I feel I’m playing god by choosing what lives and doesn’t and I don’t feel merciful doing something to something else I wouldn’t want done to my loved ones or me.
It’s nature but in nature there’s fair chase, the prey has opportunities to not be prey.
I reminded myself that the t’s I bought I’m responsible for and they need to eat.
At their size, 3 1/2” and 1 1” spiderlings, the 4 I have can scavenge pre killed which can be, is fast and instantaneous for whatever they eat. The type I bought, 3 chilean flames and a chilean copper have a reputation for sometimes going months without eating, even better in my opinion as long as they’re healthy. I’d never deny them nourishment for any reason though.
Anyhow, only chiming in because that’s something that’s on my mind since I got them.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

Phormictopus cochleasvorax would not have much of a problem tearing through a crawdad's, (or crawfish, crayfish for urbanites) exoskeleton shell.

I still would never offer a crawdad to a tarantula not even to a T. blondi. The claws pose a danger.

However all this talk of crawdads has made me hungry. I want some Cajun food.

 

[Westicles]

Phormictopus cochleasvorax would not have much of a problem tearing through a crawdad's, (or crawfish, crayfish for urbanites) exoskeleton shell.

I still would never offer a crawdad to a tarantula not even to a T. blondi. The claws pose a danger.

However all this talk of crawdads has made me hungry. I want some Cajun food.

Come down south. Nothing like a fresh boil!

 

[Brewser]

Come down south. Nothing like a fresh boil!

Come down east, Nothing like Fresh Maine Lobstah !
Bigger & Better in Butter

 

[Sauga Bound]

In my opinion, it goes from feeding to a cruel bug fight when it goes from feeding to a cruel bug fight. It's not like there's a fine line. You feed your spiders or you play games. There's no both/and. Getting excited to see it take down a feeder you've fed and housed for weeks or months has more to do with seeing the spider do what it does naturally. It doesn't naturally eat craw fish, to my knowledge. Dolomedes might be able to take down little babies with soft shells, but I don't keep dolomedes.

 

[Arachnophobphile]

Now not only do I want crawdads but lobster too.

 

[Sauga Bound]

Now not only do I want crawdads but lobster too.

I live in a city where I can eat quality food from around the world, but a good New Orleans, Cajun-style spot with crawfish Po' Boys, crawfish broils and jambalaya, gumbo, etc. is not among them. I say this because anytime crawfish/crawdads are mentioned, no matter the context, I get a craving for them and wish I could eat some. Delicious little ancient creatures. I remember finding some in a local river that runs near my childhood home and 8-year-old me thought I'd discovered fresh water lobsters, lol. I guess I wasn't that far off. They were quite tiny. Barely a chew.

 

[Spifdar]

I don't really get--I mean I do, but I don't feel it--the "excitement" from feeding a tarantula. Loads of people will post feeding vids, and I don't mean the vids that are "I'm happy my animal is happy and eating"; the vids I'm thinking of can be set to heavy metal music and stuff. To me, I feel empathy for my feeders. I find it odd NOT to, when we keep another invertebrate as a pet. Hell, I'm pretty sure the roaches a lot of folks keep are probably more social & intelligent (relatively speaking) than the actual tarantulas. Even something as simple as mealworms may well be, too.

Therefore I keep mine as ethically as I can. They're kept in a fairly big space, with organic (I'm in Europe so that means something--no pesticide chance) food, and stress throughout their lives is as minimized as possible. When I feed I either prekill or I watch, and remove the feeder if it's not taken within a set timeframe.

To me, feeding is a necessity, and one I'd like to go about as kindly as possible.

Edit to add: if I prekill AND the spider doesn't eat, that prekilled prey goes to a cellar spider somewhere in my apartment I don't want it to go to waste.

 

[Sauga Bound]

Death by tarantula is not usually over in a few seconds. Species would affect all this, certainly, and size, but still—like I mentioned before, it’s not unusual to come back an hour later and still see a hornworm or cricket moving around in the tarantula’s chelicerae. One reason superworms can be dangerous if not beheaded or seriously incapacitated is because they can turn around and bite the tarantula while they’re being eaten.

Tarantulas’ venom isn’t always as incapacitating or fast-acting as people think, so when we don’t give them prey that are easy for them to manage, we’re always putting them at risk. Many probably die in the wild that way.

BTW, I love the red knee in your profile photo. So many beautiful specimens in people's profile photos - I'm always impressed. There's a gorgeous A. Geniculata I see a lot, a jumper, and others.

Is that your Smithi in your profile photo? I remember that you recently got into keeping tarantulas like myself. Or something like that. I'm really enjoying the experience of keeping these creatures. How has your experience been so far? I find myself in awe of them.

 

[Gevo]

BTW, I love the red knee in your profile photo. So many beautiful specimens in people's profile photos - I'm always impressed. There's a gorgeous A. Geniculata I see a lot, a jumper, and others.

Is that your Smithi in your profile photo? I remember that you recently got into keeping tarantulas like myself. Or something like that. I'm really enjoying the experience of keeping these creatures. How has your experience been so far? I find myself in awe of them.

Thanks! Yes, that is Sybil, my B. hamorii in my profile pic!

Yes, I started about a year and a half ago. I have Sybil (pictured), Luca (Grammastola pulchra or maybe quirogai), Madeleine (Cyriocosmus elegans), and Selma (Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens). I started with Sybil and Luca in September 2023 and got Madeleine and Selma last month.

My experience keeping them has been magical. I’ve learned so much. I got Sybil and Luca after a couple of really stressful weeks. I attended a plant show and saw a tarantula booth, was invited to hold an Aphonopelma chalcodes, felt the first sense of calm in weeks, and was fascinated. (No, I’m not advocating handling!) From there, I started researching them, and everything just fell into place—their ease of care, their beauty, their place in story and mythology, their connection to death and rebirth through molting, their connection to weaving (I’m a weaver too).

The more I learn about them, the more enamoured I am with them.

What have you loved most about your experience?

 

[Westicles]

I live in a city where I can eat quality food from around the world, but a good New Orleans, Cajun-style spot with crawfish Po' Boys, crawfish broils and jambalaya, gumbo, etc. is not among them. I say this because anytime crawfish/crawdads are mentioned, no matter the context, I get a craving for them and wish I could eat some. Delicious little ancient creatures. I remember finding some in a local river that runs near my childhood home and 8-year-old me thought I'd discovered fresh water lobsters, lol. I guess I wasn't that far off. They were quite tiny. Barely a chew.

I'm fortunate to be about 3 hrs away from NOLA. My home away from home. Nonetheless, we have easy access to crawfish in MS. Matter of fact there's probably about 5 or 6 places within a 20 mile radius of my house where you can either eat there or buy sacks to take home and boil