At what point does a feeding become a cruel "bug fight"?

[Moakmeister]

A crayfish would demolish any tarantula.....there would be almost nothing a t could do with that hard exoskeleton.

At laptop now

I'm not gonna dispute your point there. Honestly, I DO think a big tarantula could bite through a crawfish's carapace, but I've got arguments besides "yeah it could "

Think of a crawfish's underside, which, like nearly all arthropods, is a much weaker area of its exoskeleton by virtue of being where all of its legs connect, and needing to articulate. Why's this important? Think of how a tarantula bites its prey. They do it every time - it's one of the advantages of the mygalomorph fangs being parallel. They reach over top of the prey, and their fangs hook underneath and stab the belly. where the armor is weakest in theory. The prey is pinned between the fangs and the T's underside.

But how's the tarantula gonna manage to do that? A crawfish is much larger than the food a tarantula would normally be willing to go after. And it's got those claws of course. But the tarantula has its legs. The legs are its second best weapons. Its feet are covered with those hairs that enable it to stick to smooth glass - and they're also used for catching and manipulating prey. The same hairs that cling to glass also cling to their opponent and can be used for simply sweeping them towards their fangs, or to hold down and pin it. I've seen footage of tarantulas actually holding down a scorpion's tail, manhandling the thing and delivering the bite. With eight legs, they can do all of that and still bite. A tarantula could absolutely push a crawfish's claws out of the way, and either pull it under itself or simply clamber over top of it and stab the underside with the fangs. It'd be over in a couple of seconds.

I'm never doing it. But I bet that's what'd happen.

 

[cold blood]

At laptop now

I'm not gonna dispute your point there. Honestly, I DO think a big tarantula could bite through a crawfish's carapace, but I've got arguments besides "yeah it could "

Think of a crawfish's underside, which, like nearly all arthropods, is a much weaker area of its exoskeleton by virtue of being where all of its legs connect, and needing to articulate. Why's this important? Think of how a tarantula bites its prey. They do it every time - it's one of the advantages of the mygalomorph fangs being parallel. They reach over top of the prey, and their fangs hook underneath and stab the belly. where the armor is weakest in theory. The prey is pinned between the fangs and the T's underside.

But how's the tarantula gonna manage to do that? A crawfish is much larger than the food a tarantula would normally be willing to go after. And it's got those claws of course. But the tarantula has its legs. The legs are its second best weapons. Its feet are covered with those hairs that enable it to stick to smooth glass - and they're also used for catching and manipulating prey. The same hairs that cling to glass also cling to their opponent and can be used for simply sweeping them towards their fangs, or to hold down and pin it. I've seen footage of tarantulas actually holding down a scorpion's tail, manhandling the thing and delivering the bite. With eight legs, they can do all of that and still bite. A tarantula could absolutely push a crawfish's claws out of the way, and either pull it under itself or simply clamber over top of it and stab the underside with the fangs. It'd be over in a couple of seconds.

I'm never doing it. But I bet that's what'd happen.

The only part of a crayfish that's not armored, is the undersized of the tail....one pinch, leg gone, another and the carapace is crushed....and the abdomen....lol, a pincher hits that and the battle is over.

We are gonna have to disagree on this one Moak.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

At laptop now

I'm not gonna dispute your point there. Honestly, I DO think a big tarantula could bite through a crawfish's carapace, but I've got arguments besides "yeah it could "

Think of a crawfish's underside, which, like nearly all arthropods, is a much weaker area of its exoskeleton by virtue of being where all of its legs connect, and needing to articulate. Why's this important? Think of how a tarantula bites its prey. They do it every time - it's one of the advantages of the mygalomorph fangs being parallel. They reach over top of the prey, and their fangs hook underneath and stab the belly. where the armor is weakest in theory. The prey is pinned between the fangs and the T's underside.

But how's the tarantula gonna manage to do that? A crawfish is much larger than the food a tarantula would normally be willing to go after. And it's got those claws of course. But the tarantula has its legs. The legs are its second best weapons. Its feet are covered with those hairs that enable it to stick to smooth glass - and they're also used for catching and manipulating prey. The same hairs that cling to glass also cling to their opponent and can be used for simply sweeping them towards their fangs, or to hold down and pin it. I've seen footage of tarantulas actually holding down a scorpion's tail, manhandling the thing and delivering the bite. With eight legs, they can do all of that and still bite. A tarantula could absolutely push a crawfish's claws out of the way, and either pull it under itself or simply clamber over top of it and stab the underside with the fangs. It'd be over in a couple of seconds.

I'm never doing it. But I bet that's what'd happen.

crawfish armor is too strong . Claws are too sharp , I don’t think even a Goliath would win. The spider would probably run away.
Scorpions would win unless it was a tiny one.

 

[Gevo]

It'd be over in a couple of seconds.

Death by tarantula is not usually over in a few seconds. Species would affect all this, certainly, and size, but still—like I mentioned before, it’s not unusual to come back an hour later and still see a hornworm or cricket moving around in the tarantula’s chelicerae. One reason superworms can be dangerous if not beheaded or seriously incapacitated is because they can turn around and bite the tarantula while they’re being eaten.

Tarantulas’ venom isn’t always as incapacitating or fast-acting as people think, so when we don’t give them prey that are easy for them to manage, we’re always putting them at risk. Many probably die in the wild that way.

 

[Moakmeister]

Death by tarantula is not usually over in a few seconds. Species would affect all this, certainly, and size, but still—like I mentioned before, it’s not unusual to come back an hour later and still see a hornworm or cricket moving around in the tarantula’s chelicerae. One reason superworms can be dangerous if not beheaded or seriously incapacitated is because they can turn around and bite the tarantula while they’re being eaten.

Tarantulas’ venom isn’t always as incapacitating or fast-acting as people think, so when we don’t give them prey that are easy for them to manage, we’re always putting them at risk. Many probably die in the wild that way.

I meant the fight would be over in seconds, not that the crawfish would die in a few seconds

 

[Moakmeister]

(comment posted twice by mistake sowee)

 

[Westicles]

It still boggles my mind that we're talking about a tarantula vs a crayfish fight. Who would win? What does it matter?

 

[Nitroxide]

No opinion on crawfish vs tarantula - but on the main question, I wouldn't want to feed a big to a T just to see the fight. I don't necessarily value any bug over another, except what is healthy for my spiders and easiest for them to kill as soon as possible so they get a good meal.

Certain bugs like crickets can be a bit more inconvenient as they jump but I always sit and watch them until they eat their prey so it's not a big deal, but they mostly pounce on their prey or just don't eat so I remove them. I wouldn't feed anything dangerous to them and do feel bad when I see the bugs struggle for too long. So overall they get what is easiest and convenient for them.

 

[gambite]

a crustacean exoskeleton is a lot more rigid than terrestrial invertebrates', I would be really surprised if a tarantula could get its fangs through. iirc crustaceans' exo is supplemented with calcium carbonate to some degree (I think??) vs inverts who just have chitin.

Arthropod exoskeleton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

> Typically the mineral crystals, mainly calcium carbonate, are deposited among the chitin and protein molecules in a process called biomineralization. The crystals and fibres interpenetrate and reinforce each other, the minerals supplying the hardness and resistance to compression, while the chitin supplies the tensile strength. Biomineralization occurs mainly in crustaceans. In insects and arachnids, the main reinforcing materials are various proteins hardened by linking the fibres in processes called sclerotisation and the hardened proteins are called sclerotin. The dorsal tergum, ventral sternum, and the lateral pleura form the hardened plates or sclerites of a typical body segment.

 

[Moakmeister]

a crustacean exoskeleton is a lot more rigid than terrestrial invertebrates', I would be really surprised if a tarantula could get its fangs through. iirc crustaceans' exo is supplemented with calcium carbonate to some degree (I think??) vs inverts who just have chitin.

Arthropod exoskeleton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

> Typically the mineral crystals, mainly calcium carbonate, are deposited among the chitin and protein molecules in a process called biomineralization. The crystals and fibres interpenetrate and reinforce each other, the minerals supplying the hardness and resistance to compression, while the chitin supplies the tensile strength. Biomineralization occurs mainly in crustaceans. In insects and arachnids, the main reinforcing materials are various proteins hardened by linking the fibres in processes called sclerotisation and the hardened proteins are called sclerotin. The dorsal tergum, ventral sternum, and the lateral pleura form the hardened plates or sclerites of a typical body segment.

Tarantulas and scorpions also use magnesium and zinc deposits to harden their fangs/stingers, tarsal claws, and chelae edges for scorpions.