Sorry, I have to disagree....in 35 years of herpetoculture, I have met very few non-friendly MBKs, and of the non-friendly ones, almost all had experienced little to no handling. Really, you cannot do much better for a starter snake. Now they tend to be active, so they are rarely 'cuddly', but then, that is typical for most colubrids.No MBK for me.
I'm looking for a relatively cuddly snake.
Aside from the Mexican Black Kingsnake, are there any all-black snakes?
- Thread starter jebbewocky
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By cuddly,I mean "handleable."
If MBK's are handleable, I've found a good snake.
Never had a snake, I can only go by research--which is what this thread is for!
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My MBK is perfectly fine. Handling them while they're young is the key to preventing aggression, so I've never had any problems.
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Yay!
Do they need any UVA/UVB lighting? I've seen both.
Also, an all rodent diet is fine, right? Maybe the occasional duckling?
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Having seen both-Id reccomend a costa rican black milk over the king...former is a neat glossy black and a more substantial snake. Whichever you get you will be fine.
no uvb/uva needed...and rodents only. No ducklings or other weirdness it is much better to get them on a constant diet and stick with it.
no uvb/uva needed...and rodents only. No ducklings or other weirdness it is much better to get them on a constant diet and stick with it.
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I see quite a bit of worry and talk about biting in this thread. Ime, never seen a Lampropeltis getulus or triangulum that could hurt you.
They do not require full-spectrum lighting, but it may well prove beneficial.
They are pretty malleable, but stick with what you can easily aquire and is not too spendy.
If you have a good nightcrawler supplier in the area you could look into melenistic eastern garter snakes.
All black with a white chin.
Incredibly intelligent, easy to keep, and they can get so acquainted to you they'll treat you like you're a fellow snake! (They rattle their tails when basking to inform other garters that they're there; if they get super used to you they'll do it when loafing on your arm or next to you when you touch their tail. It's really adorable. :3 )
All black with a white chin.
Incredibly intelligent, easy to keep, and they can get so acquainted to you they'll treat you like you're a fellow snake! (They rattle their tails when basking to inform other garters that they're there; if they get super used to you they'll do it when loafing on your arm or next to you when you touch their tail. It's really adorable. :3 )
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If you have a good nightcrawler supplier in the area you could look into melenistic eastern garter snakes.
All black with a white chin.
Incredibly intelligent, easy to keep, and they can get so acquainted to you they'll treat you like you're a fellow snake! (They rattle their tails when basking to inform other garters that they're there; if they get super used to you they'll do it when loafing on your arm or next to you when you touch their tail. It's really adorable. :3 )
I love my garter snakes!! You can feed them fish as well. Frozen/thawed silversides right from the pet store, or supplemented salmon from the grocery store (chop it up, put supplements on it, they almost never refuse a meal of fish!!). I currently keep my three garter snake babies together, as well. There really isn't a danger of them eating each other at all. I think the radix have reported that, but different species are different (mine are similis, the florida blue striped).
They do have melanistic eastern and wandering garters, check out www.albinogartersnake.com for all kinds of morphs out there. They show them on the price list.
I personally absolutely love my garter babies... they're feisty little things. I have one female who coils up and strikes at me constantly and has quite the attitude, but she's also the most aggressive feeder. the other two are chill and feed just fine as well, but I will say they're fast little boogers! They're not completely unhandlable though, and I do know the species I keep tend to stay that way while others like easterns tend to calm down.
One thing is never feed them goldfish or rosey reds, both contain thiaminase. Some people feed them pinkies just fine, switching using scented pinkies isn't a problem, but it's something I don't and won't do (being a rodent lover.. all my snakes aren't rodent eaters, just fish or worm or egg eaters. I guess the biggest reason I don't keep "normal" snakes like corns or balls lol).
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OMG Neat!
Soooo cute!!
Do they stink? I've heard garters stink.
I don't know if we have a good nightcrawler supplier, but we've got loads of bait shops.
I imagine they'd even take the occasional dubia, since they eat bugs a lot. Worth a shot at any rate.
Soooo cute!!
Do they stink? I've heard garters stink.
I don't know if we have a good nightcrawler supplier, but we've got loads of bait shops.
I imagine they'd even take the occasional dubia, since they eat bugs a lot. Worth a shot at any rate.
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Is this a good garter care sheet? Because it sounds like these guys are good at room temp, no UV needed--which would be awesome.
No snake needs UV...however, further research may prove that full-spectrum lighting is beneficial in some minor fashion.
Garter snakes are easily maintained at room temp, as are kingsnakes, and like kingsnakes, they do require a basking lamp at one end of their enclosure, so that they may properly self-thermoregulate. You will find, however, that garters tend to be more skittish than most kings.
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Thanks for the link, pouchedrat. I've lived in the Puget Sound region for 35 years, but have never seen Thamnophis sirtalis pickeringi, even though I spend tons of time in ideal habitat. Well, I've not seen them with that particular vibrant blue that I recall. What fantastic coloration!
If you use an aquarium you may have problems in the fall with the garters going off food due to environmental cues (sunlight, temps, humidity.)
I've found the best way to keep them healthy and feeding year-round is to put them in a Sterilite bin with some holes drilled for ventilation. Although they DO love to bask in the wild it's a lot easier for you this way (I've had many snakes die from going off feed and not surviving the brumation period, trust me.)
Because basking is a good stimulating experience for the snake you can replace it with handling; they'll become your best friend if you handle them often. Just wait until they get into the 12" range; anything under that size still thinks the world is trying to eat them.
Enclosure is simple; Water bowl on one end (a big one, they like to swim!) and a hide with a heat pad under it at the other. Don't use aspen unless you're hand-feeding them; it can get stuck inside them and in their mouth. Carefresh is highly recommend; they will make tunnels and burrows in it as well. Paper towel is good for ones under 12" and it's cheap/easy to clean.
Although a rodent based diet is easier for you it may or may not be easier for the snake. Many species do not encounter mammals as a primary food item (in my study I found that the garters actually leave areas during the fall when rodents come to the area to eat fallen fruit.) With this said, too much "mammal" in the diet may cause liver problems, obesity, and body-weight management problems which can lead to excessive fasting. Worms are the ideal diet for most subspecies of Thamnophis sirtalis and they will only need a mineral dusting once or twice a week (more for babies; the more supplement you add the more they grow!) You can feed babies everyday/every other day, subadults 3-4 times a week, and adults twice a week. The smaller and more often the meal the faster the snake will grow. Rosies and goldfish are good as treats, but since they contain thiaminase, which is harmful to garters and can cause seizures, spasms, etc, should not be the primary diet. Neither should fish pieces; these are only the flesh of the fish and not the innards, skin, and bones, thus they are not nutritionally complete. Therefore you can supplement this diet with pinky parts and minerals.
I've found the best way to keep them healthy and feeding year-round is to put them in a Sterilite bin with some holes drilled for ventilation. Although they DO love to bask in the wild it's a lot easier for you this way (I've had many snakes die from going off feed and not surviving the brumation period, trust me.)
Because basking is a good stimulating experience for the snake you can replace it with handling; they'll become your best friend if you handle them often. Just wait until they get into the 12" range; anything under that size still thinks the world is trying to eat them.
Enclosure is simple; Water bowl on one end (a big one, they like to swim!) and a hide with a heat pad under it at the other. Don't use aspen unless you're hand-feeding them; it can get stuck inside them and in their mouth. Carefresh is highly recommend; they will make tunnels and burrows in it as well. Paper towel is good for ones under 12" and it's cheap/easy to clean.
Although a rodent based diet is easier for you it may or may not be easier for the snake. Many species do not encounter mammals as a primary food item (in my study I found that the garters actually leave areas during the fall when rodents come to the area to eat fallen fruit.) With this said, too much "mammal" in the diet may cause liver problems, obesity, and body-weight management problems which can lead to excessive fasting. Worms are the ideal diet for most subspecies of Thamnophis sirtalis and they will only need a mineral dusting once or twice a week (more for babies; the more supplement you add the more they grow!) You can feed babies everyday/every other day, subadults 3-4 times a week, and adults twice a week. The smaller and more often the meal the faster the snake will grow. Rosies and goldfish are good as treats, but since they contain thiaminase, which is harmful to garters and can cause seizures, spasms, etc, should not be the primary diet. Neither should fish pieces; these are only the flesh of the fish and not the innards, skin, and bones, thus they are not nutritionally complete. Therefore you can supplement this diet with pinky parts and minerals.
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I'm perfectly fine using a mostly fish/worm diet if that's what garters prefer. I intend on only having one herp at a time, because herps are so much more demanding than inverts--so no matter what I feed it, it's going to be getting something specific to it, because I don't feed rodents to my inverts. I know most people have more, but I have the experience to know that I can get in over my head with herps if I'm not careful so I'll be self-imposing a limit for herps. Inverts are so much less maintenance, so I don't really worry that much about going overboard with them.
Really, I won't be getting a snake for a very long time, due to space constraints. It's just that I got a bit overwhelmed with geckos, so I think I'm going to take snakes very cautiously with a long research period. After a lot of reading, no more geckos for me, no tortoises/turtles ever, no bearded dragon, no Blue tongued skinks. Snakes are orders of magnitude easier.
I had been thinking about getting an anery corn, but I fell in love with the all black look of the MBK--and knowing there are other options is great too!
I intend on maybe borrowing some snake books, or getting a subscription to a magazine as well.
And ZA, I'll try to get those roach pics up tonight/tomorrow/
Thanks for all the helpe everyone. If anyone has a good resource for general snake info, let me know. I've found a lot of websites contradict each other a lot. A .pdf, to put on an e-reader would be ideal.
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http://www.thamnophis.com/ for garters
Absolutely not. None of those snakes are good beginners. I really hope you're joking, skippy.good idea, start with a woma or an indigo:} maybe a black headed python
MBKs are a little nippy as babies and they musk a lot. I like kings over milks because I like the little bit of attitude. African house snakes are good but they are wiggly like ribbon and garter snakes. They stay small (2ft for males, 3 for females). There are melanistic varieties as well as the one I have, Lamprophis inornata. They are very dark olive that looks black. Incredibly hardy snakes and good rodent eaters. Most of what you will find though are going to be Cape African house snakes that are usually red or brown.
I'm glad Zeph brought up the thiaminase issue with the goldfish and rosies. If you can get your snake to take them, you can get sashimi grade fish fillets from the grocery store as well. Just research which fish have thiaminase (like many species of silversides/smelt have it but pet stores still market it without telling you the species).
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I'm going to have to disagree with you on the issue of the milksnake. Their temperament is very mild (if not downright personable), and they have little to no heat requirements (depending on where you live). I tried mild heat with mine, and it was always as far away from the source as possible. Easy snake and very rewarding, but make sure to get a look at the parents before buying, as some lineages retain a bit of the banded pattern, while others turn jet black. Not too expensive, either, as snakes go.
I'll agree completely with Indigos not being a starter snakes. They're not difficult, but definitely not starters. Can't speak for the others.
My vote goes to the L. t. gaigeae
[edit] nevermind, I misread that you 'liked' the little bit of attitude yeah milksnakes are pushovers.
I'll agree completely with Indigos not being a starter snakes. They're not difficult, but definitely not starters. Can't speak for the others.
My vote goes to the L. t. gaigeae
[edit] nevermind, I misread that you 'liked' the little bit of attitude
yeah milksnakes are pushovers.Go stick your hand in the crayfish tank again. I'm sure she won't pinch you this time.;P[edit] nevermind, I misread that you 'liked' the little bit of attitude
So, jeb, did you get that garter yet?