Anyone have a care sheet for a Haitian Brown(Phormictopus cancerides)?

[bscheidt1020]

Absolutely love mine. I just picked another 1" sling at Net-Bug.

Wicked jealous! The price there has me thinking about getting a half dozen of em. I just wondered what a good price would be cause that Net Bug price is the lowest I have seen from the few that have them listed. The other was something like forty bucks for a sling or juvie..I forget. Just quite a difference in prices and I am not ready to get them yet so I am trying to keep in mind when to jump on a deal in the future if Net Bug does not have CB slings available when I am ready to order.

 

[Poec54]

Wicked jealous! The price there has me thinking about getting a half dozen of em. I just wondered what a good price would be cause that Net Bug price is the lowest I have seen from the few that have them listed.

The more you get, the more leverage you have. Make an offer.

 

[LordWaffle]

It's always worth throw if an offer. The nice thig about the hobby is you're not dealing with Walmart. You can always make an offer, especially when buying multiples.

 

[awiec]

I nabbed my sp. Purple for 30 at 1 inch but that one isn't as common as P.cancerides.

 

[bscheidt1020]

Thanks everybody! Good advice, and I will definitely remember that come time. I just figured for up to an inch I should have an idea of when to turn and walk away. For this species, I do not think I would drop more than 15-20 bucks per 1 inch or less. Seeing how few dealers list these compared to LPs and Genics makes me think I should eventually attempt breeding. Never thought about it before, but this species makes me think it may be something to plan for…maybe I should slow down and raise one of any species to adult first?!?

 

[awiec]

Thanks everybody! Good advice, and I will definitely remember that come time. I just figured for up to an inch I should have an idea of when to turn and walk away. For this species, I do not think I would drop more than 15-20 bucks per 1 inch or less. Seeing how few dealers list these compared to LPs and Genics makes me think I should eventually attempt breeding. Never thought about it before, but this species makes me think it may be something to plan for…maybe I should slow down and raise one of any species to adult first?!?

Do whatever makes you feel comfortable, I've noted that my phormic grows in large spurts every molt so it wouldn't take too long to get it to adulthood and I don't even power feed mine. They are out there, but they are not in high of demand compared to staples like LPs. Genics and Nhandus. I probably should breed mine as I've only found it at a few places, I'm not sure if its just rarity or no one really wants them. I find this genus quite fabulous and just like pamphs need to have some more love in the hobby. You also have to try hard to kill them so besides being a little cranky they are a great path to go in case you don't want to get into arboreal T's just yet.

 

[Poec54]

…maybe I should slow down and raise one of any species to adult first?!?

Why? The sooner you get slings, the sooner they mature, & the sooner they start breeding. It's a few years to get females to sexual maturity, so why not get going on that now? The best advice is to get several slings at a time of a species, so you'll probably get at least one female (if you only get one sling of a species and it turns out to be male, a very common occurence, then you have to start over). Once you're producing egg sacs, you can sell/trade the slings, and then essentially get new spiders for free. That's how a lot of people build collections.

 

[cold blood]

But if you were to buy 5 and get a good mix, would not the males mature faster, meaning you would not really be able to breed with what you have, but would still need to locate appropriately mature females when the males mature and visa versa. Also, wouldn't breeding siblings be a poor idea genetically?

 

[awiec]

But if you were to buy 5 and get a good mix, would not the males mature faster, meaning you would not really be able to breed with what you have, but would still need to locate appropriately mature females when the males mature and visa versa. Also, wouldn't breeding siblings be a poor idea genetically?

I think the idea is that you will have people sending YOU males instead of the other way around. Of course with some online sellers they could have multiple sacs that they are selling, so inbreeding is less likely. I could be completely wrong on Poec's meaning though.

 

[Poec54]

But if you were to buy 5 and get a good mix, would not the males mature faster, meaning you would not really be able to breed with what you have, but would still need to locate appropriately mature females when the males mature and visa versa. Also, wouldn't breeding siblings be a poor idea genetically?

Correct, males almost always mature before their sisters, often by at least a year. So you can sell/trade the excess males when they're big enough to sex (2-3"), as breeders are always looking for males. A 3" immature male is much worth more than a 1/2" male. If you're able to, in the meantime locate an older female (who is mature or will be mature when the males are) then you can start breeding sooner. If you plan your acquisitions/trades, you can get things matched up for future pairings. If you buy randomly and leave things to chance (like most people do), producing egg sacs won't happen often, if at all. If you can get $500 in cash or trade to a dealer(s) for an egg sac of slings, why not? That buys a lot of new spiders, or cages and shelves, or crickets. Do that several times a year, and you'll get some neat species in your collection, that you probably wouldn't have otherwise. Half of my collection has been obtained that way, and I've only been back in the hobby less than 2 years. Instead of saving up and buying a sling or two at a time, wouldn't you rather ship off slings you hatched out and tell a dealer: "Send me 5 of those, 3 of these, 6 of those, and 4 of that other kind' without any cash out-of-pocket.

Keep in mind, breeders need new males every year. One female can produce for 5 or 10 years, but every one of those years requires a new male. Look at the ratio of males-to-females that a breeder needs over a decade. Males are desirable and lucrative. Nothing happens without them. Instead of complaining about 'bad luck' when you bought just one sling of a species that turned out to be male, make it an opportunity instead, and get a sac from him ('the fruit of his loins!'), and/or half a sac if you send him out on breeding loan. I've got slings of some neat species, FOR FREE, that I don't have an adult female of, because I shipped some of my males out on loans. That's something to be depressed about? So many people are missing the boat because they can't see the big picture. There's a worldwide community out there that wants more spiders, a lot more spiders. Work together.

Here's a couple examples of how males can be a blessing:
- Got a lone juvenile Lampropelma Borneo Black as part of a package deal in a trade. Turns out it's male. I have no other Borneo Blacks. (Note: I do not start a 'woe is me' thread here). He matures within 6 months, I send him off on loan. He fathers a sac, I get half of it sent to me. I keep 10 for myself (to ensure I have a few females to become part of a future breeding group) and put the rest up for sale.
- Got a couple Cyriopagopus schioedtei slings, turns out to be 1.1. The male matured in less than a year, and I shipped him off on loan (I had no other schioedtei except for his immature sister). He fathers a sac and I get half of it sent to me. I keep 8 to ensure several females (to become part of a future breeding group) and sell/trade the rest.
In both cases I have female slings that will mature in several years, and will be producing sacs of their own. It keeps snowballing. All from those two males that someone else would have whined about. Worked out great for me. It's all in your perspective.

 

[cold blood]

I see that completely poec, but the truth is, that as long as I am finding a mate, it doesn't matter a lick how many you buy. I, for example, do not have a ton of disposable income, when I buy a sling, its more often than not, just that, A sling, because I couldn't afford to buy several at a time. If I did, I would literally have one or maybe two, three species tops in my collection, and for me that's not desirable in the long run. I want to experience as many different species as I can, I don't want to dedicate every decade to a new species (and I am not in a position where I could have dozens upon dozens of them...unfortunately). At the same time, I don't believe I am handcuffing myself at all, and I would not be upset with a male.

See, If I have a female mature, I will do the same thing as if I had bought several, I would look for a male, and via versa. So as long as one is willing to locate the appropriate mate when the time comes, it should still be able to work out basically the same....breeding for me, or for someone else, either way it helps the hobby and can be lucrative as well. I can guarantee any male I raise will be headed for breeding. I have never had a confirmed male, so having one and the opportunity to pair it would be something i actually look forward to dealing with when the time comes...and it will.

I think the biggest advantage to buying several is to get a female, and as long as a mate is found at the appropriate time, it shouldn't hamper anyone's ability to breed unless they are totally unwilling to let it go elsewhere or get the male for her.

Its all about either taking advantage of opportunities or not, its not about how many of each species you obtain at a time. Whether you buy 1 or 50, come maturity, you are still in exactly the same boat, looking for mates. I hope this makes sense. I hear ya that more t's=more opportunities, more frequently...but buying single doesn't take you out of the game, it just simplifies it. And when starting something like breeding projects, this could actually be a benefit for many people to start slow.

You gave an example of having only one single Borneo black, and it still worked out to your advantage.

 

[Poec54]

I see that completely poec, but the truth is, that as long as I am finding a mate, it doesn't matter a lick how many you buy. I, for example, do not have a ton of disposable income, when I buy a sling, its more often than not, just that, A sling, because I couldn't afford to buy several at a time. If I did, I would literally have one or maybe two, three species tops in my collection, and for me that's not desirable in the long run. I want to experience as many different species as I can, I don't want to dedicate every decade to a new species (and I am not in a position where I could have dozens upon dozens of them...unfortunately).

- Once you're breeding your adult females on a somewhat regular basis, you can have an annual supply of 'free' males coming in from trades. By breeding, you don't need a 'ton of disposable income.' The spiders are paying for themselves and for new additions. More variety, not less.

- By focusing and breeding, I've wound up with a lot of different species, selling and trading the slings I've produced. Talk about 'experiencing as many species as you can': I have 75 species now, a good deal of them have come thru trades. Breed 3 species and get 10 new species in return in trades, cash free. I don't know how you beat that. I was laid off all last year and managed to double the size of my collection. This isn't a rich man's game, it's a shrewd man's game.

- There is a huge difference between 'buying 1 or 50'. Buying in multiples almost guarantees females, and when they're mature, they're producing slings and you're benefitting year after year. The slings from one species may be traded for a juvenile/adult female of another, so you have her available as male slings mature. You're not 'handcuffed' doing this. You're handcuffed buying a sling or two at a time. That's the most expensive, and limiting way to do this.

I can assure you, what I'm doing works, whatever scale you want to apply it to.

 

[cold blood]

- There is a huge difference between 'buying 1 or 50'.

I was just throwing out a number, it wasn't relevant. What I was saying was that it only takes one to start the breeding process, once the ball starts rolling, I imagine it would allow for a lot of quick and easy options. Only once that first breeding is done, will I have the collateral to begin the process....I do believe in your process

I do see why you like the arboreals and tropical as their growth rates and quick maturity lead to making the whole process as quick as possible. I am looking at future t's being more of the fast growing/big appetite species for this reason. If my B. smithi gets sexed as male in the future, which could be relatively soon, how big does it need to be to be sent off? I figured it would need to be close to mature at least, but after reading your post, it looks like you send them off quite early...are they as valuable when still young? Will dealers want them at 3", or should I say will dealers value them at 3"?

You're right, there's huge advantages to breeding, I can't wait for the first opportunity.

 

[awiec]

I was just throwing out a number, it wasn't relevant. What I was saying was that it only takes one to start the breeding process, once the ball starts rolling, I imagine it would allow for a lot of quick and easy options. Only once that first breeding is done, will I have the collateral to begin the process....I do believe in your process

I do see why you like the arboreals and tropical as their growth rates and quick maturity lead to making the whole process as quick as possible. I am looking at future t's being more of the fast growing/big appetite species for this reason. If my B. smithi gets sexed as male in the future, which could be relatively soon, how big does it need to be to be sent off? I figured it would need to be close to mature at least, but after reading your post, it looks like you send them off quite early...are they as valuable when still young? Will dealers want them at 3", or should I say will dealers value them at 3"?


You're right, there's huge advantages to breeding, I can't wait for the first opportunity.

Only thing that limits me from having a several spiders of certain species I like is that I live at home currently, my collection would be much greater if not. I can't wait for my T.gigas (thinking male but can't get a good shot of its underside) to molt again as its at 2 inches and Taps can mature at 3-4, I plan on just trading him for a few slings as I don't have the time and room to sell and care for all of those slings. I wouldn't mind breeding in the future as I used to breed true spiders but currently its not feasible.

 

[Poec54]

1 - Only once that first breeding is done, will I have the collateral to begin the process....I do believe in your process

2 - I do see why you like the arboreals and tropical as their growth rates and quick maturity lead to making the whole process as quick as possible. I am looking at future t's being more of the fast growing/big appetite species for this reason.

3 - If my B. smithi gets sexed as male in the future, which could be relatively soon, how big does it need to be to be sent off? I figured it would need to be close to mature at least, but after reading your post, it looks like you send them off quite early...are they as valuable when still young? Will dealers want them at 3", or should I say will dealers value them at 3"?

4 - You're right, there's huge advantages to breeding, I can't wait for the first opportunity.

1 - Yes, get the ball rolling and get some spiders coming back in from trades. Start getting things paired up in advance, and you're ready when they mature. More sacs = more trades & more new spiders! It keeps snowballing, and you're getting all kinds of new spiders and not having to pay for them. Most dealers use up the majority of the space for inventory, and not for breeders, so they always need to buy or trade for slings to sell.

2 - I love arboreals and big tropical terrestrials, evidently many other people do too. They're my biggest focus. Fast growth rates mean they're producing sacs sooner. It's fine to have Brachypelma and Aphonopelma slings for future breeders, but it's a good idea to have faster-growing species too so you don't have to wait so long.

3 - I may ship off males when they're still young, but more often I'll hang on to them until they mature, which gives me more time to try to find an adult/subadult female of that species. Maybe you can find an adult female smithi; if you get a sac, that'll be worth a lot more than mom cost you. Most collectors/breeders want mature males that are ready to go (they'll have a freshly molted female).

4 - I came up with this on my own, but lots of other people have thought of it too, and are building collections the same way. And yes, it's exciting and fun.

 

[bscheidt1020]

I am gonna raise my little ones up and try to trade my males for slings of species on my list until I get a females of those species that I really want. That way I can get slings for discounts or for free. Should be interesting getting my first mature male into a shipping container…I will be looking for a lot of ideas on this process in a few months/years. Of 13, I think I will end up with a good bit of males and then I will be in round two of building my collection. Sidenote: I just lost a bet with my girlfriend….instead of her buying me two P. Cancerides, I will be washing her car….I really should have known a beer would cool quicker in ice water than the freezer ice tray but the friggin cooler was open for hours and the water was melting…dumb bet but hey, Im tired from a trip with her family. Oh well! Im not overflowing with disposable income a this point either. Soon enough, even if I have to wait for my birthday. And I got to get a few P. Muticus if it takes a decade for them to reach a large size! The next few years should be really exciting getting this collection in full stride!

 

[awiec]

I am gonna raise my little ones up and try to trade my males for slings of species on my list until I get a females of those species that I really want. That way I can get slings for discounts or for free. Should be interesting getting my first mature male into a shipping container…I will be looking for a lot of ideas on this process in a few months/years. Of 13, I think I will end up with a good bit of males and then I will be in round two of building my collection. Sidenote: I just lost a bet with my girlfriend….instead of her buying me two P. Cancerides, I will be washing her car….I really should have known a beer would cool quicker in ice water than the freezer ice tray but the friggin cooler was open for hours and the water was melting…dumb bet but hey, Im tired from a trip with her family. Oh well! Im not overflowing with disposable income a this point either. Soon enough, even if I have to wait for my birthday. And I got to get a few P. Muticus if it takes a decade for them to reach a large size! The next few years should be really exciting getting this collection in full stride!

Ah that old bet, if I recall correctly its because liquid water melting produces an endothermic reaction and has greater surface area to suck heat from the can. Most everything I have is slings but lucky for me I have growth rates of all sizes so I am always entertained.

 

[bscheidt1020]

Ah that old bet, if I recall correctly its because liquid water melting produces an endothermic reaction and has greater surface area to suck heat from the can. Most everything I have is slings but lucky for me I have growth rates of all sizes so I am always entertained.

I think it has something to do with how well the liquid holds the cool temp against the bottle. Also, I think the ice water actually gets colder than the air in the freezer. I heard some different explanations and will have to explore this. My buddy told me if I had wrapped the bottle in the freezer with a wet paper towel, I would have won…No Cancerides for me yet but I also have slings of different growth rates so I am enjoying raising them.

 

[Poec54]

I got to get a few P. Muticus if it takes a decade for them to reach a large size!

Muticus is a great species, worth the wait. They used to bring in w/c adult females in the late 1990's and early 2000's.

 

[bscheidt1020]

Muticus is a great species, worth the wait. They used to bring in w/c adult females in the late 1990's and early 2000's.

That must have been pricey for a mature female! This is a species that I will definitely acquire multiples of because they are one of those "Holy Grail" species to me and combined with their slow growth, I would not want to start completely over with them. When the time comes, I think I will try to get at least 4 slings.