Ant help please

[Tleilaxu]

While I was watering the soil in my ant cage the "queen" bolted from her hiding place to quickly to have made a nest so I can conclude that it is A. A virgin queen. B. A male. C. or (leastly likely) a species that does not nest in soil. I fed her some honey which she ate. She is back in her old enclosure. I also have pics so if you guys could identify and possibly sex that would be great!
Also how long will it live if its a virgin queen and what could I do to attract mates of her type? Also how long will it live if its a male?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Tleilaxu/000_1456.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Tleilaxu/000_1455.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Tleilaxu/000_1454.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Tleilaxu/000_1427.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Tleilaxu/000_1426.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Tleilaxu/000_1425.jpg

 

[bugmankeith]

That's what queen ants look like? I guess I see quite a few of them here then. I'm guessing she is not fertile, but thats just a guess, she may need a mate.

 

[zinto]

Yeah, that looks like a queen. It's pretty much impossible to mate a caught virgin queen. The way fertile queen ants are usually caught is to blacklight for them. All queens that come to the light are caught, and if they're fertile, they lay eggs! Usually queen ants don't eat until their first workers are able to bring them food. Males are very short lived, virgin queens will probably live for a while, but obviously no eggs. Hope this helps!
-Nick

 

[Tleilaxu]

You can tell its a female? Sweet now what kind... This may help in inducing a nest if she is fertile.

Also to others who are just reading the thread try to answer the above questions as well Thank you.

 

[ilovebugs]

You can tell its a female? Sweet now what kind... This may help in inducing a nest if she is fertile.

Also to others who are just reading the thread try to answer the above questions as well Thank you.

If I'm correct, the size in addition to the wings makes it a female.

as for the species I believe it's Camponotus pennsylvanicus (try to say it backwards five times fast, upside down with a blindfold)

they are probably my favorite type of ant.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2063.html for some info

also there's a wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_ant

 

[Tleilaxu]

Oh so it is indeed one of those.... OK so how do you induce them to nest?

 

[zinto]

You just have to provide the proper environment - find out what type of wood works best for them and just introduce them to it. They won't need any training. Good luck!

 

[Tleilaxu]

I see I have what I think is a good log for her. I hope the workers are big.

 

[Ant Worker]

Oh god.... Please dont rush to judgement on C. penn, it could be one of the other many Camponotus sp. Yes it is Campnotus good job getting that far.

Anyway, that is a queen *but* having gone this long and retaining her wings and running out of her hole like that, I'm certain she is infertile and will not produce. Mating ants in captivity is VERY hard, but it has been done. I've done it a few times myself but it was by accident and luck, you won't be able to do it easily as the males of the campnotus look so much alike in most sp.

Workers are of good size, and they don't need wood at all, I hate people thinking all Camponotus sp. are carpenter ants. Which is complete bull. Most of them are perfectally content in soil and only use wood when its already decaying and theres spaces already in it, they dont eat wood, carve the wood, or do anything of that nature. Ants are not termites.

Ilovebugs:
Please do not go on size and wings to conclude its female most species the queens are the same size as the workers and males are the same size as the queens etc. One of the easiest ways is by looking at the head. He head of the male has large eyes and very tiny jaws. The female has larger powerful jaws with smaller eyes and a overall bigger head.

bugmankeith:
Yes thats what queens look like, fertile ones have no wings. Yes she needs a mate but they aren't like termites, after mating the male dies and ants dont usually mate in captivity so the chances of this queen founding a colony are like .001%

 

[zinto]

Just because a female has wings, does not mean it's infertile. There's an ant lab at the University of Arizona with at least 80 ant colonies. There are many queens who still have their wings. They haven't broken off their wings because the space provided isn't very confining.

The reason I suggested to give it a log is because the species that was suggested (Camponotus pennsylvanicus) is a carpenter ant and they do nest in wood. I'm not saying this ID is correct, but that species does nest in wood.

Also, I've never ever seen a queen the same size as a worker. They are always larger, especially the abdomen. The wings are also a dead giveaway that it is at least royal, the abdomen suggests a queen. Even if the wings have been broken off, you can see where they used to be. Males are usually not the same size as the queens either. Frequently smaller, but not always. I do agree with the head aspects Ant Worker brought up though. I've included a couple links to images portraying the different ant castes side by side. In all of these except the last one, the female is wingless, the male has wings, and the rest are workers of different caste sizes. The last one is actually carpenter ants - the queen is the largest winged individual.

http://www.biology.duke.edu/rausher/altex8.jpg
http://ant.edb.miyakyo-u.ac.jp/P/LineArt/C/101001.gif
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/housingandclothing/images/1066f01.gif
http://www.pestcontrolcanada.com/ant stages.gif

 

[Ant Worker]

um......
Please, never post about ants every again, you are completely wrong in your arguements against me.
1. I keep ants with queens the same size as workers and males same size as queens so dont speak again about it.
2. Never said unmated queens always lose their wings, but its very uncommon, in the wild they shed them after mating or finding a suitable nesting place. Campnotus rarely keep their wings, especially after the conditions described its extremly rare.
3.Yawn.... Camp. penn is NOT a carpenter ant, some people find them in rotted wood in their houses, so lets jump to conclusions that all wild ants are carpenters. In the wild they nest in the soil just as much as in wood, if not more in soil. Sorry your wrong I've never seen a Campo colony in the wild in wood, all in the soil. Please, shh..
4. LOL abdomen is the end segment, a segment that is worthless in IDing the queens/males. They look the same in most species. The thorax will have wing scars and be bigger in queens/males. But abdomen is not a key sorry wrong again, the best way is the head.

 

[zinto]

First of all, I don't know why you're being so rude about the whole thing. I'm just trying to have a discussion about it, and for some reason you feel the need to be a jerk about it.

1. Anyway, just because I've never seen a queen the same size as the workers doesn't mean they don't exist. I suppose I should have put that in my post, but I wasn't expecting you to get all defensive about it. Even so, I find it hard to believe that the abdomen of your queen is the same as the workers, but am open to being corrected.

2. Secondly, it's obviously not that uncommon for queens to keep their wings if so many of the queens at the UofA still have theirs. The way many of the queens are caught is by blacklighting for them. That probably affects whether or not the wings are kept.

3. Although it probably wasn't the best course of action, I naively accepted information I found on one site ( http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2063.html ) without cross-referencing it with others. However, even after that I found this site ( http://www.msstate.edu/org/mississi...aepages/genericpages/Camp.pennsylvanicus.html ) which specifically states "Camponotus pennsylvanicus is in the subgenus Camponotus, which includes some of the true carpenter ants that nest in wood."

4. I'm well aware of what an abdomen is. The queen's are always much larger than the workers, because that's where the eggs are produced!! How many workers do you see with an adbomen like this: http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/imag98/antqn.jpg ? If you go back to the links I provided in my last post, the queen's abdomen (end segment) is much larger than any of the other individuals in the picture. Can anyone disagree with this? No. I am quite surprised that you claim the abdomen provides no assistance in distinguishing between queens and other members of the colony. I think the large size of a queen insect's (ants, termites, bees, etc.) abdomen is the most well-known fact about them!

Again, it is not my intention to be rude, but simply to provide an intelligent discussion about the topic at hand. I think you are being overly rude and would ask that you change your attitude. You're taking this a bit to seriously. Also, please provide some pictures or links to prove me wrong, I think it would help.

-Nick

 

[Ant Worker]

1, your wrong live with it.
2, UoFA has collected alate females doesnt mean they are mated queens who ever successfully produced a colony. Queens that produce colonies and have mated shed their wings, now if you would like I'll email uofa and ask them just how many of the queens are actually mated just to prove my point.
3, lol there is no ant that carvs out perfectly good wood, some will take the time to nest in already rotted out wood. Nothing about them makes them carpenter, again you fail to prove a point other than some basic crap you heard on a website.
4, I have a camponotus colony where the majors abdomens are bigger than the queens and this occurs in several species. You lack common sense, eggs produced doesnt mean that they have bigger abdomen. They can expand/contract if they are laying eggs or not. Its a well known "fact", but in the true world of myrmacology the abdomen is no assistance in Identifying a queen and any entamoligist whom is educated in ants will tell you the same thing.
Zinto, stop reading picture books you get from your schools book orders, you don't learn much from them. Go read some ant books by an entamologist than speak to me again until then I don't want to see you post about ants again.

 

[zinto]

Wow, you're being extremely immature about this. I'm not even sure that you're worth responding to since you're so close-minded, however I will reply to you one last time and if you don't want to see my posts - don't log on.

1. I never said I was right, however I did want proof. Since you're unwilling to provide it, I will continue thinking you're a liar.

2. Feel free to email UofA. I can even give you the email address of the guy who works in the ant lab. Want to know why? Because I worked there, I am a student at the UofA. The queens that were caught while blacklighting laid eggs. I'm pretty sure that's a good sign that she's fertile.

3. I never claimed to be an expert on carpenter ants. Maybe you are, I'm not one to judge. However, I will still be skepticle about anything you say and will have to confirm that with an actual reliable source.

4. I'd really like to see some pictures of the species you're referring to. Although I do use the head to assist in identifying queens, the abdomen is still a useful tool as well, regardless of what you say. I am sticking with that because it has already assisted me many times in the past. And guess what - they laid eggs!

Don't expect me to respond to your posts anymore because these have been a complete waste of my time. If you weren't so rude and actually provided some references to back up your statements, it would have been a different story. Your methods supposedly work for you, and mine are working just fine for me, so I won't need your comments or assistance so please don't bother responding to my posts either.

 

[Ant Worker]

Yes I'm going to respond, if you don't like it quit the site. And I wouldn't recommend insulting me. I'm not one to piss off...

1. Next time I find a nest of Myrmica with alates I'll take some pictures for you since you are so arogant. Also I've seen some Formica, camponotus, and Pogonomyrmex the same way, all of the colonies near my house have had their nuptail flights.

2. Unmated queens if provided the right conditions will lay, yes give me the email address of the guy I'll email him myself, blacklit queens are 95% of the time unmated.

3. You won't find one, ants are not termites, learn the differents between social insects as you seem to lack that ability. There is no species of ants that carv out perfectlly good wood. Thus they aren't carpenters. Go on believing some bull crap you've learned from pest inspectors and childrens picture books I really don't care, until you mislead others with your false information.

4. I'll take some pictures of some of my Pogonomyrmex/Camponotus colonies when my shed dries out after the rain I've had for like 12 days straight its annoying to try and take pictures on wet ground.

Back up your information with a myrmacologist and maybe you'll get respect I've talked to/worked with more myrmacologists than you know sorry..

I'll get the photos for you first chance I get and make a seperate thread for you. No I don't have a book or a site because 75% of the "ant sites" are false information. And there arn't books published on "size of adomen in an ant".

I really don't care if you dont want to reply, or read this, or give me the email, it shows that you have no information in continuing this debate because you have nothing more to prove your point, at least give me the email so I may email this dude.

-_-;;

-Lee

 

[Waspman]

Ant Worker, in Pogonomyrmex, overall size is very characteristic of sexuals. Besides the inquiline species, all of the Pogonomyrmex sexuals I have seen are larger than the workers (color variations can also be diagnostic in many species).

It's okay to defend your point, but your arrogance is unneeded.

 

[Ant Worker]

-_-;; I've got some small queens and large workers sometimes, especially males are close to the same size. Least from my observations of the colonies in my own yard.

Arrogance, lol, the fact that I know more than any other person on this forum about ants and I know that for a fact. No one with the ammount of knowledge that I have has steped forth as of yet.

Either your all scarred to be humilliated or you are actually a fake.


-Lee/ant hack

^ was supposed to install fear lol.

 

[Waspman]

Large workers are major workers, which can obviously rival sexuals in size (P. badius being the only polymorphic species in America).

Everyone's here to learn and have a good time, not to gloat over who knows more. Your belittling comments are pretty childish man. Get on the same page as everyone else.

 

[Ant Worker]

I never argued large workers being majors and that is something I've argued with people before. But I've had some dang big Pogonomyrmex occidentalis workers and some smaller queens. an example a Pogo colony I captured today where the queen was a little small but the workers were of good size!

I'm sorry to disagree but there is nothing I have to learn from anyone here about ants. I'm here for spiders, and a few other things not ants but those who wish to know information on this forum about ants will get it.

Belittling, yes because I'm the best. ;*) I don't roll on the same page I'm an indavidual I don't follow a crowd, sorry I'm not a conformist.

 

[Waspman]

Following the crowd is not the point, it's just a matter of being friendly! With the attitude you have, the information you provide won't be taken seriously (evidenced in this thread), so people will not be getting information on ants.

There are some others here that do know ants, knowing possibly more than you think they know (myself included). I wouldn't discredit people so easily. Just a few things to consider.

I'm out.