Animals getting a bad rap/rep

[basin79]

I'm lost.

All I'll add is I LOVE my pets. Literally LOVE them. I do my best to try to cause them the slightest problem but problems arise. I don't feel bad about getting a threat response for filling water dishes or feeding my tarantulas.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Not on Youtube. Or Facebook.

Maybe these youtube and Facebook personalities garnered enough experience that their techniques apparently do not provoke a threat response when they are working with these animals. This is due because of familiarity and experience. However, this doesn't make these animals any less unpredictable.

Now are you proposing they offer tutorials to those less familiar and less experienced than themselves? Or are the less familiar and less experienced better off learning on their own beginning with docile species and working their way up, maybe adopting some safety hacks techniques along the way?

Or maybe these experienced keepers on youtube and facebook should just offer some tips but nothing that may overwhelm the less familiar and less experienced?

In reality, who really cares if essential care interactions with your pet gets a threat display reaction? That is perfectly natural. As long as the owner remains responsible and uses alot of common sense and also neither the owner or pet are hurt.

Bottomline: what works for the youtube and facebook personalities may not work for everyone.

 

[SonsofArachne]

but stating that threatposturing or other defensive behaviour is a result of bad keeping is a bad shortcut.

I think bad keeping as a reason for threat posturing is more common than you might think. I've seen plenty of Youtube videos where the keeper talked about how "mean" their OW is, then they pull the entire lid off a plastic storage bin with a inch substrate and and piece of corkbark barely larger than the spider. Very shocking that a spider might be defensive in those conditions.

I don't feel bad about getting a threat response for filling water dishes or feeding my tarantulas.

Nor should you - unless it's every OW every time. Then I would say you're probably doing something wrong.

I do wonder if the reason I rarely get thread displays during rehouses (and when it happens it's directed at a paint brush or catch cup) is because I'm completely calm when I do them. Thoughts of getting bit or a escape never enter my mind, at least not while I'm doing the rehouse. I do plan beforehand for escapes, at least (before anyone calls me out for it). I've noticed a lot of people however, especially with OW's, comment on how nervous they are during rehouses. Nervousness can lead to shakiness and clumsiness. And we all know spiders are sensitive to vibration. This could cause threat displays that have no apparent cause.

Maybe these youtube and Facebook personalities garnered enough experience that their techniques apparently do not provoke a threat response when they are working with these animals. This is due because of familiarity and experience. However, this doesn't make these animals any less unpredictable.

Now are you proposing they offer tutorials to those less familiar and less experienced than themselves? Or are the less familiar and less experienced better off learning on their own beginning with docile species and working their way up, maybe adopting some safety hacks techniques along the way?

Or maybe these experienced keepers on youtube and facebook should just offer some tips but nothing that may overwhelm the less familiar and less experienced?

In reality, who really cares if essential care interactions with your pet gets a threat display reaction? That is perfectly natural. As long as the owner remains responsible and uses alot of common sense and also neither the owner or pet are hurt.

Bottomline: what works for the youtube and facebook personalities may not work for everyone.

Actually I meant the opposite -Youtube and FB keepers seem to get way to many threat displays - because of bad husbandry and and keeping.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I think bad keeping as a reason for threat posturing is more common than you might think. I've seen plenty of Youtube videos where the keeper talked about how "mean" their OW is, then they pull the entire lid off a plastic storage bin with a inch substrate and and piece of corkbark barely larger than the spider. Very shocking that a spider might be defensive in those conditions.


Nor should you - unless it's every OW every time. Then I would say you're probably doing something wrong.

I do wonder if the reason I rarely get thread displays during rehouses (and when it happens it's directed at a paint brush or catch cup) is because I'm completely calm when I do them. Thoughts of getting bit or a escape never enter my mind, at least not while I'm doing the rehouse. I do plan beforehand for escapes, at least (before anyone calls me out for it). I've noticed a lot of people however, especially with OW's, comment on how nervous they are during rehouses. Nervousness can lead to shakiness and clumsiness. And we all know spiders are sensitive to vibration. This could cause threat displays that have no apparent cause.

Yes, improper care can stress the animals and keepers really should only keep what they are comfortable keeping.

Actually I meant the opposite -Youtube and FB keepers seem to get way to many threat displays - because of bad husbandry and and keeping.

Oh ok, yeah I could believe that.

 

[basin79]

I think bad keeping as a reason for threat posturing is more common than you might think. I've seen plenty of Youtube videos where the keeper talked about how "mean" their OW is, then they pull the entire lid off a plastic storage bin with a inch substrate and and piece of corkbark barely larger than the spider. Very shocking that a spider might be defensive in those conditions.


Nor should you - unless it's every OW every time. Then I would say you're probably doing something wrong.

I do wonder if the reason I rarely get thread displays during rehouses (and when it happens it's directed at a paint brush or catch cup) is because I'm completely calm when I do them. Thoughts of getting bit or a escape never enter my mind, at least not while I'm doing the rehouse. I do plan beforehand for escapes, at least (before anyone calls me out for it). I've noticed a lot of people however, especially with OW's, comment on how nervous they are during rehouses. Nervousness can lead to shakiness and clumsiness. And we all know spiders are sensitive to vibration. This could cause threat displays that have no apparent cause.

99 times out of 100 my Monocentropus lambertoni will throw up a threat display. She won't retreat into her burrow (she's only ever used it to moult) she'll just rear up and stridulate. But she's 1 on her own. All of my other OW's will run away.

Now and again my Chilobrachys fimbriatus will emerge to reaction to prey on her webbing and then decide it's a threat. Give it a few slaps and then eat. My H.mac lass will do that too but far less. My pokies will all retreat quickly, my Cyriopagopus doriae and Pelinobius muticus the same.

Absolutely agree with rehousing. Whilst I don't think there'd be anything unusual about getting a threat posture for destroying their world doing it as safe, calmly and quickly is definitely the way to go.

 

[14pokies]

@Andrea82

https://usark.org/2018-blog/hr6362-invasive-species-2018/

https://usark.org/2019-blog/federal-teapspa/

Two good ones that if passed will cripple our right's to own and display exotics.

I encourage everyone to get behind USARK now!

 

[The Snark]

I think bad keeping as a reason for threat posturing is more common than you might think. I've seen plenty of Youtube videos where the keeper talked about how "mean" their OW is, then they...

I watched a few (too many) of those videos. One thing that became obvious and very apparent with nearly all of them is the keeper is taking liberties. Simply replace the T in your mind with a rattlesnake. Nearly every threat display would have resulted in a tag. Liberties taken assuming X out of the animal: I can do this because -whatever-, well, you did it and the display was the result. You got in it's space knowing it wasn't a foot long strike zone. Nyaa nyaa, can't tag me as I clean/fill the water dish/etc.

When I worked with rattlers, the divider was slowly lowered into place. Snake observed. If it started rattling you were moving too fast or your infrared image was sending a signal. Back off and slow down.
All spiders only have the threat display, or bolt for the blue.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

I watched a few (too many) of those videos. One thing that became obvious and very apparent with nearly all of them is the keeper is taking liberties. Simply replace the T in your mind with a rattlesnake. Nearly every threat display would have resulted in a tag. Liberties taken assuming X out of the animal: I can do this because -whatever-, well, you did it and the display was the result. You got in it's space knowing it wasn't a foot long strike zone. Nyaa nyaa, can't tag me as I clean/fill the water dish/etc.

When I worked with rattlers, the divider was slowly lowered into place. Snake observed. If it started rattling you were moving too fast or your infrared image was sending a signal. Back off and slow down.
All spiders only have the threat display, or bolt for the blue.

The amount garbage that is uploaded on youtube is astonishing whether poor enclosures, stressed animals, or misinformation spewed out with reckless abandon. It reflects the reptile and invert keeping hobby so poorly especially bad is scorpion keepers, tailing hots with bare fingers, free handling of hots, etc.

YouTube makes me literally want to scream and pull all my hair out. These people have no business keeping these animals. But fortunately there are good, passionate invert keeper content creators such as Archnoboard member Staehilomyces and his Lair Of Centipedes youtube channel. But it often feels the bad outweighs the good.

 

[Arthroverts]

Ah, just another day on Arachnoboards; I'm getting philosophy, animal behavioral studies, scientific jargon (and I mean that in a good way), care tips, notes on consciousness, trending legal issues, arachnology, and sociology all in one thread! Time to sit back with the ginger ale (if I got one) and watch...

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Here is example stupidity I am sick of seeing on YouTube. The first video is especially triggering because either the Deathstalker is a) sick b) dying c) put in the freezer in order to make handling safer d) combination of or all of the above. It's a sad to watch this lethargic Deathstalker.

 

[Andrea82]

Here is example stupidity I am sick of seeing on YouTube. The first video is especially triggering because either the Deathstalker is a) sick b) dying c) put in the freezer in order to make handling safer d) combination of or all of the above. It's a sad to watch this lethargic Deathstalker.

I cheered when that idiot girl of westcoast arachnids or something got bit by her C.lividus.
I would want to cheer if either one of the people in your video got stung, but it would also mean that the hobby would take severe backlash so I simultaneously hope they'll never get stung.

 

[Outpost31Survivor]

Yes, I fear these people are endangerment to our hobby. They should not keep reptiles or inverts because the animals are obviously not receiving the proper care they need.

These videos are not setting a great precedence to the young and impressionable to follow.

That first Deathstalker is probably languishing under improper care and yes the owner deserves to be stung if that scorpion was fully healthy it would not tolerate that rough handling at all.

 

[schmiggle]

@Andrea82

https://usark.org/2018-blog/hr6362-invasive-species-2018/

https://usark.org/2019-blog/federal-teapspa/

Two good ones that if passed will cripple our right's to own and display exotics.

I encourage everyone to get behind USARK now!

Feel like I should note on this front--USFWS considers velvet worms, e.g., to be a domesticated species. That wouldn't matter for the second bill, but it might for the first.

These things tend to get struck down by the courts, who seem not to like the Lacey act in general (lol). USFWS wanted to ban interstate transport of salamanders, but a federal court ruled (on the basis of IMO a tortured misreading of the Lacey Act, but I do like the result) that all salamander species could be shipped throughout the lower 48, even though species couldn't be imported. The only people who wanted to import salamanders in large numbers were corporations like Petco, which have tended to sell unhealthy red-bellied newts to people who will probably kill them. My point being, everyone who counts liked the result as far as I know. USARK likes to make a fuss over bills that have very little chance of getting anywhere because that's how they get publicity and donations. Can't really blame them, but it can distract from legitimate concerns, like the salamander bill.

 

[AzJohn]

The problem with social media is that you get more likes with a treat display than a calm animal. Would it surprise anyone if a lot of the social meadow posters only have tarantulas because it gets them views? In a lot of cases they may only be props.

 

[Andrea82]

The problem with social media is that you get more likes with a treat display than a calm animal. Would it surprise anyone if a lot of the social meadow posters only have tarantulas because it gets them views? In a lot of cases they may only be props.

Not surprising at all. Exotics lair is a perfect example of this phenomenon.

 

[Arthroverts]

The problem with social media is that you get more likes with a treat display than a calm animal. Would it surprise anyone if a lot of the social meadow posters only have tarantulas because it gets them views? In a lot of cases they may only be props.

I think this is absolutely true. If you go to a reptile show, do you notice which booths attract the most people? The ones with "bugs" and spiders. Why is that? Why do people here for reptiles want to look at tarantulas, scorpions, centipedes, etcetera? I think it has something to do with people naturally being fascinated with these creatures that are so often underfoot; even arachnophobes come over to look around (I speak from personal experience working at reptile show tables). Therefore, it is only natural for these YouTube "stars" to use something that will get them a lot of views and likes, and invertebrates fit the bill.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[The Snark]

USARK likes to make a fuss over bills that have very little chance of getting anywhere because that's how they get publicity and donations. Can't really blame them, but it can distract from legitimate concerns, like the salamander bill.

It needs to be taken into account how these NGOs operate. I'm under various constraints at present but intend to write up a general outline in the near future. Suffice to say, it is always a balancing act and the operations that put closer to 100% of their resources into their stated purposes are usually the poorest funded. The flash and bang crowd often has over 50% of it's budget buried in administrative expenditures. A major factor involved is donors cough up for 2 reasons; they believe in the intents and purposes of the operation or they are looking for tax deductions, often wanting the most star spangled recipients the IRS or equivalent is unlikely to question..