An Open Letter

[shining]

As far as this goes I agree with most of it. Newbie is a negative title when used this way though but regardless of what name is used your intent is the big factor. I can call you master in a condescending way and it's still a negative. Intent shows and honesty (that is the best polisy) is in not always met with kind helpful responses.


I agree with this but this is also from a person to person perspective not an internet one. People will always treat you better in real life then they do online. I am very fond of mentor programs and have myself been involved in many of them. My Mom will teach anyone who shows any interest about bees and plants etc. In this setting you don't have several people at one time having a go at you while implying your a troll. Which you are likely to find online. That is a big turn off and if your trying to foster interest in your hobby that is not the way to do it. It also leads into this next bit.


I have seen some show up the way you describe so this statement is fair. I have also seen some that became that way after the way they were treated. A prime example is when crlovel got some OW from a show and had not been a T keeper long. He was excited and a lot of people lit into him about the Ts he had did not prep him for the OW Ts he got. He was informed that he was going to get bit and that keeper like him would end up ruining the hobby for everyone. He got mouthy after being lit into not the other way around. From there it degraded into a brawl that the admins had to shut down the thread. If the intent is truly to foster the hobby then that was a bad way to go about it IMO. I can point to a lot more threads where this is the case. This doesn't help anyone or the hobby.


This is great and I'm glad you do this. I've learned a lot from posts you have made. It is a bit like the story of the good child though. It's easy to be fond of the good child who always listens to what the parent says. It is harder to like the bad child who often questions what they are told. When mentoring I've found this true of even myself and I have to be careful to not treat the people I'm teaching different because of it. To me that's not tip toeing it's just being a good teacher. You can't help someone whom you have offended.


Totally fair, but getting questions for us doesn't mean getting ganged up on. Or at least it shouldn't.


Again, it's easy to like the good child.

I agree this has happened.

There is also a third outcome. Some of them kept their OW Ts and did just fine with them. For some reason we always seem to over look this outcome. I got three pokies within 3 weeks of getting my first T. I have had them almost a year and have done really well with them. The sad part was I found this board looking up some questions I had on them. After seeing how people were treating when they got OWs early I didn't ask my questions or even say I had them to anyone on here for the longest time. I found the answers on my own and they are doing great. Is that how we want to foster the hobby?

I will be the first to admit there is a steep learning curve for OWs when you get them early. Not everyone is ready for that but that also doesn't mean everyone who does will fail.


I can get behind this even though some of it does seem egoish at times. I too want the experience to go well for the new keepers. Going full tilt at the new guy/girl is not a good introduction to the hobby though.

I have learned a lot from @Poec54 and so many others on here. Though I was disappointed that I felt I couldn't be honest and get help on my OW Ts due to how people were treated who got them early. That is one reason I have always been quick to call out when it was happening to someone else on here. I want people to come here for help. Even if I don't think they are ready for the T they got I'd rather them have the best information they can get to help them out. That makes it less likely that something bad will happen and we all want that.

Finally, how you present yourself is often as important as the advise you give. You can hand out the best advise in the world badly and no one will listen. We are the face of the of the tarantula hobby. When they look at us what do we want them to see?

Again thanks to @EulersK and @Poec54 for their great posts on this topic. I have wanted to talk about this for a while and I think it'll greatly help out.

There is the mentor and the tormentor. This will never change in any aspect of life. It's up to the positive to cancel out the negative. I really don't need to get deeper into this because honestly, this thread should've been done after @Trenor's wise comment.

 

[EulersK]

Passion should never translate to hostility, and hostility is not an excuse for passion.

I absolutely love this quote, because this is what so many of us cite when things go down hill. Spot on, thank you.

I had no idea that was your mother! I never had the pleasure to speak with her, but I've read plenty of her old posts. Quite the legend around here.

 

[magicmed]

This thread should be stickied as a reminder to keep the place friendly, yes? Maybe that's just me

 

[Trenor]

You're getting carried away with your own rhetoric. I said some, you said 'everyone.' I simply pointed out that some of the worst starts here were self-induced. You've missed some classics, and it's certainly more than one or two. Some of them are probably still ranting about this forum.
The topics that have set off the most 'lively' discussions here have been handling and beginners getting OW's, especially as their first.

When you look back over the posts you made on this thread....
Here:

And we've had our share of them here, that started throwing verbal punches right out of the starting gate, insulting us, calling names, then storming out of here and bad-mouthing us. Those people probably have a history of being drama queens. I'm not going to play the game and tip toe around them.

Here:

Many are transient and don't particularly care what happens to the hobby in the future. They'll have moved on to something else. Some want an animal for a show of courage or adrenaline rush, which usually involves OW's, especially OBT's. Everyone that owns a tarantula isn't 'one of us.' Some make poor choices for the wrong reasons.

and Here:

I know that some of the people bad-mouthing this forum, came here with an attitude and were throwing insults and name calling right out of the starting gate. A few have thrown tantrums. It's not just us, those people are doing the same thing wherever they go, and we can't let ourselves be manipulated by them. That's how they get their way, they're drama queens, I've worked with people like that.

which all deal with drama queen/chip on the should people. Then take into account that no where in any of those same posts (except for the some/few partial qualifiers) did you speak about the other end of the spectrum where drama was not a factor. Given that it is not hard to understand how I came to the conclusion I did. Even so, you did say some and not everyone so if I have misrepresented your views/stance in this matter I apologize.

It is true that a lot of the more heated threads are on OW Ts. I have also seen some on housing, scientific names, naming in general, and misting of all things(still blows my mind).

 

[matypants]

OP was dead on. Some long time users won't like it and haven't liked it. That doesn't matter. It is what it is. Simple.

 

[Octagon]

May I add the observations of a relative newcomer? I consider it a privilege to be a member of this forum and have already benefited from the enormous knowledge and experience here. I am also very much enjoying "getting to know" all of you. IMO, the general level of smarts, knowledge, wit, compassion and commitment to the highest standards of tarantula-keeping here is impressive. There also seem to be some who do not "suffer (who they consider to be) fools gladly" and sometimes respond in ways that seem to be unnecessarily harsh, when it is not needed to get their message across.

 

[Vanessa]

I know im new and my opinions are kind of moot. But this really is an amazing hobby, these animals are so intersting and should be shared, so maybe someday common fears of spiders may not be so widespread. The members of this board I've pointed out have made me overjoyed to join this hobby, I actually haven't been this excited about something in quite a while

You're too hard on yourself and your opinions are not moot. They are valued as much as any other member's opinions on this forum. You are obviously dedicated and, what you might lack in hands on experience, you make up for in your enthusiasm. Sometimes the post with the most impact isn't the one that contains the most knowledge, but the one that contains the most understanding... and you have no shortage of those.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Well, I remember MY first dip into the pool here. I was so proud of my new critter, and not knowing much and was eager to show it off and posted numerous pictures of it. Let me tell you, if I heard "That's a canary, you idiot!" once, I heard it million times.
On the bright side, I never bought from that vendor again. "Yellow Fluttering Arboreal Bird-Spider", my foot! The singing should have been a giveaway, but the dude told me that it was stridulating. The barred cage he sold me was to "enhance cross ventilation."

The moral: common names can be deceiving and to always buy from a reputable vendor. But the community could have been a little more understanding, in my opinion.