Albino T?

C_Strike

Arachnobaron
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different colour form from the same sac? lol thats quite odd.*doubtful*
scorps do posess levels of melanin *pigment* certain areas of their bodies.
so some level of albinoism is possibly, tho improbable...from what i know
i dont think thats the case herer tho.
 

DrAce

Arachnodemon
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Pigment in Chitin... maybe some ideas on the subject

As far as I know, there are a few pigments in the chitinous shell of Tarantulas, and I can't see any reason why they wouldn't be susceptible to albinoism. 'Albinoism', is normally a mutation in a gene which is involved in manufacturing pigments. Although there is an important other possibility, that internal transport of the pigment isn't working, and no pigment is making it to the chitin during manufacture. It can also be caused in 'higher' animals by a physical deformity, but I don't know enough about the production of pigment in arachnids to comment further on this. Cyriopagopus schioedtei doesn't seem to have any iridescent markings, so it should remain completely albino through life... although in mammals there is developmental albinoism, where pigments are made later in life, but not in earlier stages.

It would be interesting to see if ANY colour is making it to the exoskeleton, or internally, even the hairs on the legs or abdomen. Certainly the eyes have pigments in the photo, but that could also be a product of the eye 'design' - being essentially deep holes in the head.

My guess is that it will be genetic, and that if inbreeding of these spiderlings is done, it will crop up again. There's a good chance, given their poor colour vision, that these guys will happily mate.
 

mrbonzai211

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If they use chitin in their exo then it is possible for that to effect the color of a T to make it seem albino. It would not be true albinoism and would be incredibly rare. With my hermit crab colony I can control the color of my Coenobita rugosus (commonly called a ruggie) by regulating the amounts and types of chitin rich foods I feed it. Although it is difficult to regulate I can influence my crabs into turning a dark blackish green to white. However, this seems to be specific only to that species. None of the other species, common or exotic, seem to be effected by chitin and don't change colors after molts. While I know that tarantulas and hermit crabs are barely related I do know that color morphs based on chitin is possible with crabs so my conjecture is that it may be possible with T's too..... although most likely rare..... like one in a billion rare.
 

elyanalyous

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alot of a tarantula's color actually is just refraction of light off of the hairs, look it up, there are countless threads on this subject on here...
 

DrAce

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If they use chitin in their exo then it is possible for that to effect the color of a T to make it seem albino. It would not be true albinoism and would be incredibly rare.
My understanding of the word 'Chitin' is that it's not a single substance. It's a word used to name a hard protein-based matrix containing calcium as a binding agent. 'Chitin' is also in the cell walls of fungi and in insect exoskeletons, and I doubt it's all the same chemically.

While I know that tarantulas and hermit crabs are barely related I do know that color morphs based on chitin is possible with crabs so my conjecture is that it may be possible with T's too..... although most likely rare..... like one in a billion rare.
Tarantulas and Hermit Crabs are not so distantly related, expecially when it comes to basic biochemistry. Certainly, I recall that the book-lung is a modified gill (from my now-distant biology course... I'm happy to be corrected on that). I think it's reasonable to base assumptions from one to the other.
Tell us more about the changes in colour in the crabs, please.

To Elyanlyous:
That's true... which is why I mentioned that there doesn't seem to be any iridescent markings on the species in question. It seems (that's just from photos I've looked at now) that it's all absorption-based colour. So it's unlikely that they will develop colour later in life - although that may develop later from biochemical/developmental changes in the spider itself.
 
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M.F.Bagaturov

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To talk about Albino arachnids we first should realise what can be considered albino arachnid.
Search for free article about albino scorp on JoA site and this gives You a clue... but sure, the theory is good.
 

DrAce

Arachnodemon
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Eyes, Pigments, and that German Photo

The article on the Australian Scorpion Urodacus yaschenkoi is an interesting example of Albinoism. It can be found here:
http://www.americanarachnology.org/JoA_free/JoA_v14_n1/JoA_v14_p101.pdf

I cannot read the text from the German article in the original post, so I don't know if any study of the eye pigments are done. I would guess that the pigments in the eye are produced in a different way to the pigment in the exoskeleton, since their function in the eye (light detection) is very different to their function on the exterior of the animal (markings and protection). Certainly in 'higher' animals, they are completely different compounds (retinol in the eye, and any number of pigments for skin), and usually have a large number of origins, vitamin A, steroid manufacture, etc.

If it turns out that there is pigment in the eye of the albino spider, then I guess it's not a true albino, but as far as I'm concerned, a disorder of pigment production, leading to the absence of pigment, is albinoism.

It's DAMNED cool, either way. ;)
 

Cheshire

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Has anyone stopped to think that maybe...just *maybe* the lighter spider in the picture is freshly moulted?
 

cacoseraph

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in the Schultzes book they say that all three colorforms of G. rosea have been produced in the same sack

another thing to consider... many tarantula females mate with more than one male to produce their sac(s)... so their is definitely the chance that those tarantulas are only half-siblings
 

Tescos

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Has anyone stopped to think that maybe...just *maybe* the lighter spider in the picture is freshly moulted?
lol lol lol lol I might just follow up this with....did anyone just stop and read or a least try and translate the article before comments like the one I just quoted were made.:wall: :rolleyes: ;P
 

lucanidae

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Originally Posted by Cheshire
Has anyone stopped to think that maybe...just *maybe* the lighter spider in the picture is freshly moulted?
Cyriapagopus tend to have a blueish/grey tinge to them when freshly molted, not a striking white.
 

DrAce

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This is just a pervasive rumor. Read here: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=82385

for a discussion of this rumor and the real evidence that thwarts it.
I've looked at some under a microscope. Diffraction from hairs (and the bottom of the arboreal feet) gives many that metallic-looking iridescent appearance in the few samples I've seen. This is NOT (and I am repeating the NOT) the same thing as saying that they lack any natural pigmentation. Of course they do, and some of them are 'secondary' metabolites - manufactured for the sake of pigments, not as a result of keeping the Tarantula's inner workings ticking over (like guanine).

Again, spiders do most definitely produce endogenous pigments and incorporate them into their exoskeleton. They can augment this colouration with diffraction off structures on the surface, such as ridges and hairs on the surface of the spider.

The thread you mention is a great one, and I really enjoyed reading it. I'm new to the Arachnoboards, and so hadn't seen it buried under half-a-years discussion, but I did notice that there was no mention of inborn errors in metabolite transport.

You can lack pigment from one of two possible mechanisms - queue analogy. If you want to paint a house, you need to buy the paint (make the pigment) but then you gotta get it on the surface (transport it to the skin/incorporate it). There are plenty of known errors in metabolite transport in mammals; I can't see any good reason why there can't be some in invertebrates.
 

DrAce

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Pretty please, with sugar on top...

Would someone be willing to translate the text of the article for us?
:confused:
 

lucanidae

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The thread you mention is a great one, and I really enjoyed reading it. I'm new to the Arachnoboards, and so hadn't seen it buried under half-a-years discussion, but I did notice that there was no mention of inborn errors in metabolite transport.

You can lack pigment from one of two possible mechanisms - queue analogy. If you want to paint a house, you need to buy the paint (make the pigment) but then you gotta get it on the surface (transport it to the skin/incorporate it). There are plenty of known errors in metabolite transport in mammals; I can't see any good reason why there can't be some in invertebrates.
Awesome information, thanks for helping contribute to the general body of information on that topic. I agree, the shining and color-shifting parts are definitley diffraction based, but cover much less surface area than the normal pigmentation does. Oh, and sweet analogy.

On a side note, I'm almost sure the color by difraction is a by-product of having large numbers of small split hairs for climbing, so it should still be present on an arboreal albino.
 

PhilR

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I am aware of white/almost white specimens of another Theraphosid Genus produced from the same sac as normal specimens, so it's certainly not unique to these spiders. I can't elaborate further, can't even name the Subfamily, as I'm not sure if there's any work being done on them at the moment. Suffice to say that they are entirely unrelated to Cyriopagopus.

Whether it's albinism in the true sense and definition of the word, who knows, but they certainly exist.

As for the article mentioned, make an effort for goodness sakes. The author is Volker von Wirth, which should give a clue to the authenticity and credibility of the writing. When one of the world's leading authorities on Asian theraphosids writes an article (on an Asian theraphosid), it's generally sensible to pay attention.
 
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