a dog or cat eating a ( t )

[Tuotatis]

Bites by spiders of the family Theraphosidae in humans and canines
Isbister, JE Seymour, MR Gray, RJ Raven - Toxicon, 2003:

Spiders of the family Theraphosidae occur throughout most tropical regions of the world. There have only been three case reports of bites by these spiders in Australia. The aim of this study was to describe the clinical effects of bites by Australian theraphosid spiders in both humans and canines. Cases of spider bite were collected by the authors over the period January 1978-April 2002, either prospectively in a large study of Australian spider bites, or retrospectively from cases reported to the authors. Subjects were included if they had a definite bite and had collected the spider. The spiders were identified by an expert arachnologist to genus and species level where possible. There were nine confirmed bites by spiders of the family Theraphosidae in humans and seven in canines. These included bites by two Selenocosmia spp. and by two Phlogiellus spp. The nine spider bites in humans did not cause major effects. Local pain was the commonest effect, with severe pain in four of seven cases where severity of pain was recorded. Puncture marks or bleeding were the next most common effect. In one case the spider had bitten through the patient's fingernail. Mild systemic effects occurred in one of nine cases. There were seven bites in dogs (Phlogellius spp. and Selenocosmia spp.), and in two of these the owner was bitten after the dog. In all seven cases the dog died, and as rapidly as 0.5-2h after the bite. This small series of bites by Australian theraphosid spiders gives an indication of the spectrum of toxicity of these spiders in humans. Bites by these spiders are unlikely to cause major problems in humans. The study also demonstrates that the venom is far more toxic to canines.

Hi!

And have these spiders killed person? Because I have got spiders from the both genus.

 

[Talkenlate04]

No I dont think so. I may be wrong but I dont think there is a single medically recorded incident of a T killing a human.

 

[verry_sweet]

No I dont think so. I may be wrong but I dont think there is a single medically recorded incident of a T killing a human.

You are 100% right

 

[Thoth]

Dogs, cats and people all belong to very different branches of mammals. There's no really good reason to assume that venoms will have the same effect. The venom will attack the same pathway, which will be in common, but the dog or cat will probably suffer more from a dose-dependancy... they're smaller than us... and the venom will act faster because their metabolism is a little faster than ours.

This is all different from what Phil asked... he wanted to know about INGESTION of the tarantula, and I still think there wouldnt be any big effect.

Its isn't a dose dependant issues since a couple of those dogs were 100+ lbs. (I have several adult female friends that weigh less than some breeds of dog) It is more due to inherent metabolic differences (leading to such things as chocolate toxic to dogs, ibuprofen lethal for cats et c.). Based on work done by Pierre Escoubas, doing toxicity study with kill times on mice found that G.rosea venom kills as quickly as some OW species known for potent venom (potent to humans, as well)

To the effect of eating a t, if it a NW the urticating hairs will probably cause serious irritation to mouth and throat, with OW and some NW species its not an issue. Ingesting venom won't have much effect, though if the t gets a bite it while being chomped all bets are off then. I would be worried about the effects of the fangs, depending on the ability of the cat or dog to digest them otherwise you have these very sharp objects that may puncture the digestive tract at any point causing seriouse injury.

 

[DrAce]

100 Lbs - forgive my ignorance of the damned imperial system... it's about 45 Kg...

That's 1/2 -> 2/3 of a person. Given that it causes cramps in a person I would have predicted that a slight increase in dose on that is a quick trip to serious-ville.

Also, I believe that most of the protein-based shell of the fangs etc would dissolve pretty quickly in the stomach/intestine, once pepsin gets hold of it...

Did you dig up the paper, Thoth? Can you send it to me, por-favor?

 

[Thoth]

100 Lbs - forgive my ignorance of the damned imperial system... it's about 45 Kg...

That's 1/2 -> 2/3 of a person. Given that it causes cramps in a person I would have predicted that a slight increase in dose on that is a quick trip to serious-ville.

Also, I believe that most of the protein-based shell of the fangs etc would dissolve pretty quickly in the stomach/intestine, once pepsin gets hold of it...

Did you dig up the paper, Thoth? Can you send it to me, por-favor?

Two things
Which one?
You'd probably have to wait till Monday, since I believe they on my work computer.

Though here is the post with venom toxicity table
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showpost.php?p=679047&postcount=1

The problem with the fangs (and is exoskeleton) is it is mainly chitin. I know humans, possible dogs and cats (what I seen indicates them also but not 100% certain), lack chitinases to digest it and any limited digestion that occurs is via fermentation by intestinal flora. Still leaving the fang as a potential risk.

 

[DrAce]

Eating sharp things

Also, the digestive system is capable of handling all sorts of sharp things unharmed. There are plenty of records of things like razor blades, needles etc getting through digestive systems without a detectable sign of internal trauma.

I personally wouldn't like to try it out.

And thanks for the response, Thoth, but I've dug the journal up myself at work...

 

[phil jones]

well this has been very " interesting " and we have a lot of intelligent people on hear so where do i fit in lol its allways good to get different views some we like some we do not but what a boreing world and hobby this would be :clap: :clap: :worship: :worship: --- phil

 

[Tuotatis]

100 Lbs - forgive my ignorance of the damned imperial system... it's about 45 Kg...

That's 1/2 -> 2/3 of a person. Given that it causes cramps in a person I would have predicted that a slight increase in dose on that is a quick trip to serious-ville.

Also, I believe that most of the protein-based shell of the fangs etc would dissolve pretty quickly in the stomach/intestine, once pepsin gets hold of it...

Did you dig up the paper, Thoth? Can you send it to me, por-favor?

Hi!

So they can kill a child...It's not good, my brother is 40 kilos.

 

[DrAce]

Hi!

So they can kill a child...It's not good, my brother is 40 kilos.

No, that's probably reading too much into it. I suspect that there's a mixture of both effects going on (although Thoth seems to have studied more about it). I was hypothesising above... making an intelligent guess and interpreting, not stating facts.

 

[C_Strike]

I remember reading a study into australian tarantula bites on canines. 7 out of 7 dogs died pretty rapidly.
As far as i know australian species seem to be more powerful when it comes to venom than others, but still very concerning.
Also the urticating hair of G. rosea and others is particularly threatening if inhaled by a dog.
Couldnt say for cats.. i cant remember the study i read, but im sure its reletively easily googled

 

[Bothrops]

I remember reading a study into australian tarantula bites on canines. 7 out of 7 dogs died pretty rapidly.
As far as i know australian species seem to be more powerful when it comes to venom than others, but still very concerning.
Also the urticating hair of G. rosea and others is particularly threatening if inhaled by a dog.
Couldnt say for cats.. i cant remember the study i read, but im sure its reletively easily googled

Sorry for being ignorant, but there are theraphosids in Australia? Maybe those 'australian tarantulas' weren't real tarantulas, but equally mygalomorphs (maybe Atrax robustus or Hadronyche sp.?)

I repeat, sorry for being ignorant :8o

Cheers,
Bothrops

 

[Cirith Ungol]

Sorry for being ignorant, but there are theraphosids in Australia? Maybe those 'australian tarantulas' weren't real tarantulas, but equally mygalomorphs (maybe Atrax robustus or Hadronyche sp.?)

I repeat, sorry for being ignorant :8o

Cheers,
Bothrops

This might clear it up
http://www.thedailylink.com/australiantarantulas/id/idindex.html

 

[phil jones]

what did i start lol its like a run a way train or some monster i think i will take my medication and lay down in a darken room lol----phil

 

[tequila]

What about say a Chihuahua as i have 2, one of them has gotton on the desk once before but all it did was bark at my t while it was in its terrarium, since the dogs are so small might the venom be lethal?

 

[Brettus]

Sorry for being ignorant, but there are theraphosids in Australia? Maybe those 'australian tarantulas' weren't real tarantulas, but equally mygalomorphs (maybe Atrax robustus or Hadronyche sp.?)

Hey,

Harking from Australia, I can tell you we certainly do have representatives of the theraphosidae-I have one! They are distinct from funnel-web spiders, and it is interesting to compare the effects of the toxin. Whilst Aussie T venom is very mild to humans and deadly to dogs, funnel-web venom is exactly the opposite. Cats and dogs can survive large doses of funnel-web venom because their nerve surfaces are resistant to the atraxotoxin component of the venom, which is what is lethal to primates.

Brett

 

[Drachenjager]

100 Lbs - forgive my ignorance of the damned imperial system... it's about 45 Kg...

That's 1/2 -> 2/3 of a person. Given that it causes cramps in a person I would have predicted that a slight increase in dose on that is a quick trip to serious-ville.

Also, I believe that most of the protein-based shell of the fangs etc would dissolve pretty quickly in the stomach/intestine, once pepsin gets hold of it...

Did you dig up the paper, Thoth? Can you send it to me, por-favor?

1/2 of a person??? My wife just broke 100 pounds this year lol of course i nearly hit 300 but she is a whole person. Kids ??? lots fo people are under 100 pounds and kids get bitten too and still -0- fatalities in humans from T bites directly.

 

[Drachenjager]

What about say a Chihuahua as i have 2, one of them has gotton on the desk once before but all it did was bark at my t while it was in its terrarium, since the dogs are so small might the venom be lethal?

id think a Texas Tan could eat a chihuahua.....maybe in 2 days lol

 

[tacomadiver]

Well I have had the unfortunate experience of having just such an occurrence. I had an adult B. vagans and two 4 month old kittens. When I wasn't home, they got up and on top of my chest of drawers and knocked the vagans enclosure off the top spilling her out. Whether the fall killed her or the kittens either way I ended up with T legs all over the floor with the rest having been eaten. The kittens showed no ill effects at all (other than no petting for a few hours, I was a little more than peeved).
Whether the T is a danger to the pet...don't know, but they ARE definitely a danger to your T's.
Chris

 

[phil jones]

sorry to hear that poor old - t - cats or kittens can be sods trying to get at some thing they want to kill or play with !!! -- phil