Word of caution: Hot glue smell in enclosure

[Icey51115]

Hello all, I'm a first-time spider owner as my previous posts have noted, and I have lots to learn (hopefully, not the hard way).

I made my own enclosure custom for my new pet Phiddipus Regius.

Today, I opened the door for a spritz of mist, and noticed the inside smelled just a bit like hot glue. I had used some hot glue in the making of the terrarium - namely, to attach decorations or climbs to magnets so that they could attach to the walls. The terrarium was on top of a heating mat (on rubber feet to allow some distance). My best guess right now is that the heating mat may have warmed some of the glue that was on a decoration near the bottom - the glue was still solid when I removed the decoration, though.

I immediately removed this object, unplugged the heating mat, and set up a couple of mini fans on each side, one to blow air in and the other to suck air out. I believe its fine in there now, but I'm still gonna leave them up for a bit to make sure the air is extra fresh in there.

From a quick look around, it seems like I'm far from alone in having used hot glue to put together an enclosure, but I definitely want to be cautious of any smells/fumes.

Wanted to post this as a word of caution, and/or to see if anyone else has had a scare like this (smell in enclosure) or relevant advice from experience. Thanks, all.

 

[Tarantuland]

Why the heating mat? I’ve never heard of hot glue being an issue before but there are obviously many brands and types. I guess having it near a heat source isn’t good though

 

[DaveM]

As one of the quoted people suggesting hot glue...
Hot glue is really a kind of thermoplastic resin. I use it all the time in my spider enclosures without problem, and I have not noticed any particularly prominent smell. Really, there are many different formulations of hot glue. What brand are you using?
The hardened glue could be a vinyl polymer, polyester, polyurethane (without VOC solvents, so inert and harmless), polyolefin, polystyrene -- basically, some kind of plastic. Once it's cured, it should be nearly inert and not give off much of anything that could smell.

If you heat the cured hot glue again (or if you heat any plastic), then all bets are off. I agree with @Tarantuland that the heating mat is of concern and a likely culprit. It's not good to directly reheat hot glue, or to directly heat a spider.

 

[Icey51115]

Hello folks, thanks for your responses!

The type of glue, from the amazon page: "Made of environmental EVA (ethyl vinyl acetate) materials, our hot glue sticks are safe for you and your kids. No smell emits after melting, the glue stick with high clarity grade and strong adhesives allows you to bond most materials quickly such as paper, metal, stone, plastic, fabric, glass, ribbon, wood, ceramic, florals, etc."

As for the heating mat, I had seen a few sources say that phiddipus regius should have a heating mat to make sure the temperature is at their comfortable range. I had seen other sources say they didn't need a heating mat. I erred on the side of over-preparedness and got one to make sure the temp is right for the spider.

I am in agreement about the mat being a likely culprit, rather than the glue itself. I am wondering, is it not needed for this species? The temp in my apartment is usually 70F but sometimes could probably be 68F or similar, lower in the 60s at night.

And of course, after the fact, I wonder if I may have mentally exaggerated or misidentified the smell in the first place. I'm a bit hyper-tuned into the details, as its my first time caring for a spider and I don't want to overlook things, you know how it is.

 

[Tarantuland]

Hello folks, thanks for your responses!

The type of glue, from the amazon page: "Made of environmental EVA (ethyl vinyl acetate) materials, our hot glue sticks are safe for you and your kids. No smell emits after melting, the glue stick with high clarity grade and strong adhesives allows you to bond most materials quickly such as paper, metal, stone, plastic, fabric, glass, ribbon, wood, ceramic, florals, etc."

As for the heating mat, I had seen a few sources say that phiddipus regius should have a heating mat to make sure the temperature is at their comfortable range. I had seen other sources say they didn't need a heating mat. I erred on the side of over-preparedness and got one to make sure the temp is right for the spider.

I am in agreement about the mat being a likely culprit, rather than the glue itself. I am wondering, is it not needed for this species? The temp in my apartment is usually 70F but sometimes could probably be 68F or similar, lower in the 60s at night.

And of course, after the fact, I wonder if I may have mentally exaggerated or misidentified the smell in the first place. I'm a bit hyper-tuned into the details, as its my first time caring for a spider and I don't want to overlook things, you know how it is.

In general, with invertebrates you don't need to be as dialed into the details of humidity and temperature. However, I'm good with tarantulas but bad at keeping phiddipus regius alive myself from experience. If you're going to use a heat mat, you're gonna need a thermostat. Search this site about information about keeping jumpers above any other sources- but as a general rule inverts don't need as specific requirements are herps.

 

[Dorifto]

Is that a heater? The"fan" that sits on top of the paper towel.

As @Tarantuland told you, in the case that you need a heat mat, they always should be used in conjunction with a thermostat. If not they will heat the enclosure continously, raising the heat to lethal levels.

 

[Icey51115]

Is that a heater? The"fan" that sits on top of the paper towel.

As @Tarantuland told you, in the case that you need a heat mat, they always should be used in conjunction with a thermostat. If not they will heat the enclosure continously, raising the heat to lethal levels.

That is not a heater, that is a fan that is blowing air into the enclosure to air it out. The heater is the black mat under the terrarium - separated from the terrarium with rubber feet. It was off at the time of this picture, and will remain off. I know with tarantulas, heat mats should be at the side, not bottom, because tarantulas burrow - but since jumpers climb, I figured the bottom would be best.

And, to be clear, my heat mat is indeed hooked up with a thermostat! It was set to keep the enclosure at 74F. The range I've heard for P. Regius is 70F to 84F. I'm sure sources vary on this, too, naturally.

 

[Dorifto]

A heat mat needs to be attached to the glass to work properly. If you place it on top, and you are using rubber legs, those legs are applying to much pressure to the mat, and it can overheat. So it could ve the reason for the smell. Other causes could be the plants or the glue itself that still has some fumes.

 

[Icey51115]

A heat mat needs to be attached to the glass to work properly. If you place it on top, and you are using rubber legs, those legs are applying to much pressure to the mat, and it can overheat. So it could ve the reason for the smell. Other causes could be the plants or the glue itself that still has some fumes.

I think you are quite right! I was thinking the smell itself wasn't very hot-gluey as much as general plastic-y. I'll have to search around on the forums for proper heat mat installation and usage for a terrarium. If anyone has any resources at hand they want to share on this front, please feel free. For the moment, I don't think the heat mat is really urgently needed but I would like to know a proper way to set it up in case I ever do need it or it gets too cold.

Thanks again for all of the responses, I really appreciate it

 

[Dorifto]

I think you are quite right! I was thinking the smell itself wasn't very hot-gluey as much as general plastic-y. I'll have to search around on the forums for proper heat mat installation and usage for a terrarium. If anyone has any resources at hand they want to share on this front, please feel free. For the moment, I don't think the heat mat is really urgently needed but I would like to know a proper way to set it up in case I ever do need it or it gets too cold.

Thanks again for all of the responses, I really appreciate it

We discussed the issue here

The proper use of heat mats

Mods could you please make this a sticky as there's so much misinformation about heat mats? So heat mats are perfectly safe to use IF they're used properly. They're like a mini space heater when used properly. 1) Heat mats MUST be plugged into a thermostat. That's a thermostat NOT a...

arachnoboards.com

 

[Icey51115]

Thanks! I really appreciate it.

So, heatmat attached vertically to a wall of the enclosure... and insulation on the other sides of the enclosure to prevent heat loss? But the heatmat goes directly against the glass, no insulation between glass and heat mat? And the probe goes on the inside of the enclosure, against the glass? Is that correct? It seems like that would create a hot zone for my spide to crawl on, and possibly lead to the same issue of warming up my plastic plants. Am I missing something, or would the thermostat just keep the mat cool enough to not cause issues?

Thanks for the post link!

 

[Dorifto]

Correct.

The thermostat will keep the glass at the desired temp. So it shouldn't be any risk of overheating anything.

I'd use a heat mat if it's 100% necessary, if not there are better options like heating a cabinet, as they will heat the enclosure passively.

 

[The Snark]

It's not good to directly reheat hot glue,

In doing so, you went into uncharted territory. Those glues are one shot deals, untested in reheating. All plastics break down with reheating and it's impossible to keep track of the toxicity of the component chemicals they break down into. As a prefect example, common PVC water pipe. Exposed to UV it turns brittle and becomes an entirely different substance- most likely with toxins present that aren't in the original product.

 

[Icey51115]

In doing so, you went into uncharted territory. Those glues are one shot deals, untested in reheating. All plastics break down with reheating and it's impossible to keep track of the toxicity of the component chemicals they break down into. As a prefect example, common PVC water pipe. Exposed to UV it turns brittle and becomes an entirely different substance- most likely with toxins present that aren't in the original product.

I don't believe the glue ever actually melted. As I said at the top:

the glue was still solid when I removed the decoration, though.

I'm thinking at this point that it was general heating of plastics, but no melting, of glue or otherwise, thankfully! I removed that bit of glue anyway, flushed the air out with fans, and will no longer be using the heat mat. Rookie mistake with the mat, I suppose.

That's really interesting, though - definitely something to be careful of!

 

[The Snark]

I'll let someone else figure out what happens when this stuff breaks down - as it inevitably will even without heating.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/49/fe/ea/49feea955c86f2d611232828cbcb667f.gif

 

[Dorifto]

I'll let someone else figure out what happens when this stuff breaks down - as it inevitably will even without heating.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/49/fe/ea/49feea955c86f2d611232828cbcb667f.gif

Too much admiration exclamations for me

 

[kimmykat42]

I recommend using E6000 instead of hot glue. It takes a little longer to dry than hot glue, but it’s much stronger, and doesn’t require nearly as much glue to be secure. It holds magnets beautifully, and won’t be affected by heat or humidity. Plus, it works on any type of material. It’s pretty great stuff.

 

[The Snark]

"Made of environmental EVA (ethyl vinyl acetate) materials, our hot glue sticks are safe for you and your kids. No smell emits after melting,

Revisiting. Amazon talking trash and got busted.

"Ethylene-vinyl acetate copolymer does not have an acid odor if it is not thermally degraded. But elevated temperature and presence of some additives (for example, high amounts of clay) cause the production of pungent, acetic acid odor, which is a product of thermal degradation of ethylene-vinyl acetate copolymer. "

Deer Amazon,
Pleeez look up hydrocarbins always percents in tha aer.

 

[Albireo Wulfbooper]

I recommend using E6000 instead of hot glue. It takes a little longer to dry than hot glue, but it’s much stronger, and doesn’t require nearly as much glue to be secure. It holds magnets beautifully, and won’t be affected by heat or humidity. Plus, it works on any type of material. It’s pretty great stuff.

Fair warning: E6000 should be used in a well-ventilated space - it has nasty fumes until it is fully cured.

 

[kimmykat42]

Yes, and speaking of which… if you do use E6000, let the whole enclosure air out for two weeks before using. That way you can be sure that it’s fully cured, and the fumes have dissipated.