Wolf?

[Scott C.]

Any one keep wolves, or whatever the legal percentage of cross breed is?

If anyone could point me in the right direction at least, it would be much appreciated.

 

[Dark]

I don't keep wolves, but I have always wanted one, Heres a link to where people who are 'serious' about getting one http://www.pets4you.com/wolf.html can get them. Wolves are amazing animals and can make great pets with proper training, although I read that it is very very hard to train a wolf and that they need special modifications to ones home to keep one. I don't recommend getting a wolf if you expect it to act and be like a normal dog. As for Hybrids, they can look like a wolf and have a dog's personality or they can come out looking more like a dog with wolf instincts, the traits you get with hybrids vary.


hope I helped,

Eric

PS. If you really really want a wolf, you should really do tons of research and be 100% sure you can give them a good life.

oh yeah, and you might need a permit

 

[Hedorah99]

Wolves are amazing animals and can make great pets with proper training

No, they don't make good pets. And in fact most of the places that sell them as "pets" are little more than puppy farms for exotic animals. As for hybrids, they are actually more prone to just snapping one day. Kinda like in Call of the Wild. They just get some mixed signals about whether they should be subserviant to you or dominate you. All in all, any wild mammals rarely make good pets. There are exceptions, but do you really wanna take that risk with that much money and an animal that can break a moose's neck with its teeth?

 

[pitbulllady]

No, they don't make good pets. And in fact most of the places that sell them as "pets" are little more than puppy farms for exotic animals. As for hybrids, they are actually more prone to just snapping one day. Kinda like in Call of the Wild. They just get some mixed signals about whether they should be subserviant to you or dominate you. All in all, any wild mammals rarely make good pets. There are exceptions, but do you really wanna take that risk with that much money and an animal that can break a moose's neck with its teeth?

I take it that you speak from experience, no?

Well, I DO. I have kept wolves, and so-called "wolf-hybrids" of varying content, along with purebred Japanese Akitas, Carolina Dogs(North American Dingoes), New Guinea Singing Dogs, American Pit Bull Terriers, Catahoula Leopard Dogs, Alaskan Malamutes, Siberian Huskies, Standard Poodles and Miniature Dachshunds, though not necessarily all at the same time. I maintained a pack of purebred wolves as part of a comparative behavior study. MY experiences were quite different from the almost-verbatim Animal Rights anti-exotic animal rhetoric you quoted.

Wolves and wolf-domestic dog crossbreeds(there is absolutely no such thing as a "wolf-hybrid", since wolves and dogs are the same species, the domestic dog having been classified as Canis lupus familiaris since 1993)CAN make good pets, for the right people. They are NOT guard dogs and will not protect you or your property, however, as many people mistakenly obtain them for, unless they are very low content, and predominately of a breed selectively bred for that purpose, like the German Shepherd. Wolves and wolf-dogs can, like many other breeds, have a very high prey drive, and are easily bored. They are incurable diggers and chewers, like many other breeds. If not socialized intensively, they will become fearful of strange situations and people; I've experienced the exact same thing with every single domestic breed of dog I've dealth with, even Poodles. Wolves do not "snap", as in just go crazy, anymore than Pit Bulls or other dogs. Like many other breeds(the Catahoula and Akita being especially prone to this)they will take advantage of a "weak" owner to take over the pack leadership and will of course use force to maintain that position once they obtain it. This is the number one reason why dogs bite their owners; the dog has been allowed to take over, and the owner knows too little about canine behavior to realize that there's a problem until it's too late, so they claim that the dog "just turned on" them for no reason. They failed to recognize the very obvious signs. I saw no behavior in even purebred wolves that was not mirrored in domesticated dog breeds, although with dogs, there is a magnification of some behaviors to suit the purpose for which they were bred.

Potential drawbacks to wolves and wolf-dogs include:
digging and chewing
MASSIVE "blowing coat" in spring, generating a veritable hurricane of hair
howling can disturb neighbors
high prey drive, tendency to go after moving objects
eat a LOT, and need high-protein, top-quality food
escape artists-can leap over seven-foot fences, dig under or chew through most wire
Sensitive to high temperatures, like Arctic breeds
Tend to be fearful in strange or stressful situations
Absolutely NO guarding/protective instinct whatsoever
Absolutely MUST have companion canine or nearly full-time human companionship
Can challenge owner they perceive as "weak" for dominance, much like many other breeds
BIGGEST drawback is public misconceptions and BSL/Exotic animal bans-I cannot tell you what the legality of a high-percentage wolf-dog in your area is, or if they are legal or not. You will have to check local ordinances for that, and don't be surprised if you get a total runaround. Purebred, verifiable wolves, with ISIS records stating them as such, require a USDA permit, and USDI if you plan on taking them across state lines. However, since it is impossible to distinquish between wolves and dogs, genetically, undocumented wolves are considered to be crossbreeds, and except in areas in which wolf-dogs are specifically banned, Federal law allows up to 98% pure without a permit. Keep in mind that many insurance agencies will not sell homeowner's insurance to anyone keeping a wolf, wolf-dog, Pit Bull, German Shepherd, Doberman, Rottweiler...etc., etc. and will cancel yours if they find out you have any large or otherwise controversial canine breed.
Wolves, like Akitas, Chows and other "primitive" dogs, tend to be prone to sensitivity to many commonly-used canine medications and drugs, especially those used for anesthesia. The dose of Ketamine used to knock out a 23-pound Cocker Spaniel for surgery will OD and kill a wolf or Akita.
Wolves and wolf-dogs CAN be prone to the same ailments that afflict all large breeds, including hip dysplasia and GVD("Bloat").
There ARE, unfortunately, a lot of people selling plain old mutts as wolves or wolf-dogs, so it's Caveat Emptor there. Generally speaking, the closer in behavior the domesticated aspect in a wolf-dog is to a wolf, the better the cross will be. If the domestic part is a breed whose behavior is markedly different, like Rottie or other guarding breed, the more likely the behavior is to be unstable.

On the positive note, wolves are very affectionate and love to play, even once fully-grown. They can be very silly and clownish and seem really in tune with human moods. They DO bark, but are not generally "barky", in comparison to many domestic breeds. They learn things extremely fast, and in spite of what people who are against them claim, I have not found them to be difficult to housetrain AT ALL, nor to be difficult to train, period. They are a breeze to train compared to the typical Akita, which has a "why don't you MAKE ME!" attitude when it comes to any sort of obedience training, much like a 90+ pound house cat!
Wolves, like Labs, have a high retrieve drive, so if throwing a stick or ball is your thing, you should have fun.
They don't drool like "lippy" dog breeds, and have minimal "doggie" odor.

pitbulllady

 

[C_Strike]

Interesting read, many thanks

 

[Sheri]

Incredible that they are considered the same species.

Since I was very small, I have wanted a wolf.

My understanding of it (with no personal experience, just years of reading) is that they can make good pets - if you're prepared to be able to devote yourself full-time.

I've also heard that they are one-person dogs, meaning that they need to bond deeply with the alpha and need a central figure to be trained from rather than an entire family unit.

Though this initially didn't make a lot of sense to me, given their string pack nature, it does when you think that every wolf individual is an alpha given the circumstance and opportunity.

Damn how beautiful they are, by far, my favorite animal.

I think though, that unless one fell into my lap, I'd have a hard time justifying keping an animal that to me, embodies the characteristics wild and free.

I had three separate wolf sightings last year, and one was af ew minutes of the wolf checking us out (from a distance) and almost interacting as we observed one another. Just incredible.

The closest we've come in months has been the oberservation of tracks.

 

[Hedorah99]

I take it that you speak from experience, no?

Well, I DO. pitbulllady

So do I. I worked at a rehab center for unwanted pets, mainly large cats but some canids and mustelids, and currently work with three wolf species (Grey, Red, and Maned) at an AZA accredited zoo.

 

[SkorpNtrants]

my main experience when dealing with a "dog hybrid" is coydogs or dogote

 

[Dark]

So do I. I worked at a rehab center for unwanted pets, mainly large cats but some canids and mustelids, and currently work with three wolf species (Grey, Red, and Maned) at an AZA accredited zoo.

There unwanted for a reason . Just because you meet three nasty animals of one species doesn't mean the rest of them are the same.

 

[Tony]

There unwanted for a reason . Just because you meet three nasty animals of one species doesn't mean the rest of them are the same.

A local guy had hybrids, he had told me 'You want a higher % of Wolf. Once they know your the boss they are less likely to challenge'.
Pitbullady, does this fit?
And as far as working with unwanteds go.....:wall:

 

[pitbulllady]

A local guy had hybrids, he had told me 'You want a higher % of Wolf. Once they know your the boss they are less likely to challenge'.
Pitbullady, does this fit?
And as far as working with unwanteds go.....:wall:

Yes, it does. I had far less problems w ith the pure wolves than with those of lower percentage-and the behavioral issues(if you can call 'em that)were things that were typical for the breed of DOG that was in the mix. Anything with a lot of Siberian Husky, for instance, tended to be very hyper, exremely barky and vocal, be hard-headed to the point of insanity, and be very ADD/ADHD in general-EXACTLY the sort of thing I'd experienced with purebred Huskies, and the sort of thing experienced by many owners of Sibes. I'd once read a piece from a British dog magazine on the growing popularity of Siberians and sled-dog racing in Great Britain, and he advocated wolf-crosses to calm down the Siberians, maintaining that if a Sibe got off-leash, in most cases, the only option to catch it would be with a well-aimed bullet! Like many of the German Shepherd lines in the US, bred for show rather than working, wolf x GSD crosses tended to be neurotic, dysplastic fear-biters, much like those pathetic, slope-backed creatures I used to see slinking around the show ring at AKC shows, back when I was involved with that sort of thing.

Many people who are so quick to decry, "wolf-dogs are like this, wolf-dogs are like that", have apparently had very little experience either with wolf-dogs, or with domesticated dogs, period. Either that, or their domesticated dog experience has been limited to what I consider "easy' breeds like Labs and Goldens, rather than something a whole lot more challenging, like an Akita or Catahoula, breeds which do not by default consider it their obligation to be submissive to humans, or obey humans, just because we walk upright, and whose original purposes did not include living in someone's house. Virtually every single negative thing that is said about wolf-dogs, is also very true, often to a greater extent, of many domesticated breeds. I find it very ironic that many of the wolf-dog detractors will actually recommend someone getting a Siberian Husky instead of a wolf-dog or wolf, when in MY experience, a wolf is much easier to deal with.

Yes, there are people who definately should not obtain a wolf-dog, but there are also people who should definately not get a Lab or a Jack Russell Terrier, either, and when they do, it's the dogs who pay the price most of the time for their owner's ignorance or lack of preparedness. The best advice for someone considering WHATEVER canine is to talk to people who OWN that particular canid as pets, not just to breeders. Find out the positives and the negatives, most especially the negatives. Consider how that animal's natural behavior jives-or NOT-with your lifestyle, and whether YOU can change YOUR behavior and lifestyle to suit the animal if it doesn't quite go together, since you cannot expect the animal to change. That is probably the number one reason for owners surrendering dogs to shelters, etc.-they made a bad choice of breeds in the first place, and when a problem arose due to conflict between the owner's lifestyle and unrealistic expectations for the dog and the dog's natural behavior, the owner found it more convenient to just dump the dog rather than alter their behavior and outlook. Many people DO get wolf-dogs because they think that a wolf-dog cross will be a great guard dog, or a macho status symbol(I've seen Shih-Tzus that were WAY tougher and more "macho"), or that it will be a great way to show off and attract attention. From that last angle, it often backfires because the vast majority of the public who see the animal in question will go, "yeah, right...if that's a wolf, I'm Elvis!" They expect a wolf to be some near-mythical monster, larger than life, with glowing eyes, or else some noble Disney-esque heroic creature with human-like intellect, and what they see is...a big dog that wags its tail and drools and pees on fire hydrants and smells horrible when wet and never fails to put its muddy paws up on you when you're in your best clothes, just like their own mutt.

Like I said, talk to people who've owned wolves or wolf-dogs; in the advice of my grandfather, the best way to find out if a Chevrolet is any good is to talk to people who drive Chevrolets, and steer clear of advice from people who drive or sell Fords!

pitbulllady

 

[Ewok]

One of my brother in-laws has a red wolf They are really cool animals. At first they are a little intimidating, since they are so large and being a wolf haha. As far as I know his wolf has never snapped and turned aggressive.

 

[Hedorah99]

There unwanted for a reason . Just because you meet three nasty animals of one species doesn't mean the rest of them are the same.

Doesn't mean they should be bred and kept in someone's back yard either

 

[Hedorah99]

One of my brother in-laws has a red wolf They are really cool animals. At first they are a little intimidating, since they are so large and being a wolf haha. As far as I know his wolf has never snapped and turned aggressive.

Areyou sure its a red wolf, they are pretty small. If he does have one, it's an endangered species and def initly should not be a pet.

 

[HerpCenter]

Hello,

My father and uncle both owned wolf cross breeds as I grew up. I am not certain of the specific percentages, but the wolves were roughly 85% timberwolf and 15% Husky. By appearance, there was no questioning that either of them were wolves.

Both were aquired from a bredding program that reintroduced the species to some area outside of Massachusetts. Cherokee, our female, was the runt of a litter and my father got her as the mother was rejecting her. She ended up being a full grown female. Her brother, Bear, was aquired at the same time as Cherokee and came with no issues.

One of the rules my parents had to follow with owning her was that vet visits ALL had to be pre-scheduled and she was to come in muzzled. (She was very aggressive toward any other canine besides Bear.)

She was listed as a Timber/husky cross breed in her paperwork and in MA she was considered legal. I can't say if my father had to jump through loops or not to make it legal, but she was well documented.

I will see what I can do about getting a picture posted online of her. She was beautiful. (She has been deceased for roughly 6 years now.)

 

[Scott C.]

It never ceases to amaze me the wide variety, and depth, of experince/knowledge of the members of this board....

Rest assured that I am not personally interested in owning a wolf. I am interested in someone I know being well learned before he takes the plunge though.

Thank you for the info provided thus far(especially pitbulllady), and any more you may wish to provide. I will be directing the person in question to this thread so that he can start the process of learning what needs to be known about these beautiful creatures...... Maybe he will decide it's not for him, maybe not......

@Hedorah99- I think you're a bit gruff about it, but I'm with you...... While I see nothing wrong with others, who are capable, keeping wolves, I personally think they are best left in the wild, for the same reason Sheri stated.....

Thanks again people.
Cheers,
Scott

 

[Hedorah99]

It never ceases to amaze me the wide variety, and depth, of experince/knowledge of the members of this board....

Rest assured that I am not personally interested in owning a wolf. I am interested in someone I know being well learned before he takes the plunge though.

Thank you for the info provided thus far(especially pitbulllady), and any more you may wish to provide. I will be directing the person in question to this thread so that he can start the process of learning what needs to be known about these beautiful creatures...... Maybe he will decide it's not for him, maybe not......

@Hedorah99- I think you're a bit gruff about it, but I'm with you...... While I see nothing wrong with others, who are capable, keeping wolves, I personally think they are best left in the wild, for the same reason Sheri stated.....

Thanks again people.
Cheers,
Scott

Yea, I am a bit gruff because of the rehab center experience. We had so many animals come in that were neglected horribly because people thought that they would make good pets. I know that there are people out there who can take care of a large wild mammal properly, but the fact of the matter is, the majority of peopel cannot and truly have no business doing it.

 

[Scott C.]

Yea, I am a bit gruff because of the rehab center experience. We had so many animals come in that were neglected horribly because people thought that they would make good pets. I know that there are people out there who can take care of a large wild mammal properly, but the fact of the matter is, the majority of peopel cannot and truly have no business doing it.

I agree. It is more work than many are willing to do. Too many people keep novelty pets, and I can easily understand your short fuse in these regards given your experience.
Thanks for the posts. They will give this guy one more angle to see things from.
Scott

 

[Hedorah99]

I agree. It is more work than many are willing to do. Too many people keep novelty pets, and I can easily understand your short fuse in these regards given your experience.
Thanks for the posts. They will give this guy one more angle to see things from.
Scott

No problem. I am happier to see people asking questions from others first. If you ask the guy selling the wolves (or servals, civets, wallabies, lemurs etc...) if they make good pets, the answer will always be, "Yes, of course they do". Its still an animal but seen as a source of profit to those that sell them.

 

[Ewok]

Areyou sure its a red wolf, they are pretty small. If he does have one, it's an endangered species and def initly should not be a pet.

I think it was a red wolf, but I could be mistaken, it might have been a hybrid. He has had two wolves, the one in question was hit by a car and killed a few years back. But then he got another one which seemed big because of all its winter fur. So I my be getting the most recent wolf confused with the one that was killed.