Why Wc is Bad!!!

[slocoj91]

While not a tarantula species, I recently came across information on a conservation project carried out - and with further stages planned - for Dolomedes plantarius, the fen raft spider, in the UK.

To me this does illustrate that the ones who care are the ones best placed to be doing the groundwork. Further, to TentacleToast's comments re regulations and legislation, that that approach is considerably more successful than bringing in laws that can have loopholes built in by design, are created 'with advisement' by scientists but not actually verified by experts following their construction to ensure the intention makes any sense at all and matches what is claimed, and otherwise tend to put individuals under greater burden than corporations/large scale operations.

Just wanted to share another example of a project used to try to improve wild populations. Also address the reasons why those of us in the hobby should very much want to manage issues in the best ways we can, without gov intervention, in order to try to stop that happening at all.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

While not a tarantula species, I recently came across information on a conservation project carried out - and with further stages planned - for Dolomedes plantarius, the fen raft spider, in the UK.

To me this does illustrate that the ones who care are the ones best placed to be doing the groundwork. Further, to TentacleToast's comments re regulations and legislation, that that approach is considerably more successful than bringing in laws that can have loopholes built in by design, are created 'with advisement' by scientists but not actually verified by experts following their construction to ensure the intention makes any sense at all and matches what is claimed, and otherwise tend to put individuals under greater burden than corporations/large scale operations.

Just wanted to share another example of a project used to try to improve wild populations. Also address the reasons why those of us in the hobby should very much want to manage issues in the best ways we can, without gov intervention, in order to try to stop that happening at all.

interesting conservation project ,
Lost 3/4 pet shop Ts within a month or few months . Here’s the lone survivor i shouldn’t had to spend $200 for one healthy sling out of 4 .

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Ive seen the exact same Lost ability to eat and drink same as dks in my last 4 losses. Yet without the spasms of dks. lost control and they kept looking dead I poked them still alive one tried to bite me . So while 2 of 4 were wc most likely it’s still a small sample size .
while not dks this pet shop bought t couldn’t digest it’s food right . Despite having 2 water dishes died of dehydration.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

The lone survivor is doing great, molted again although it was too small to sex . Maybe LPs is safe to buy tiny Ts from but nothing bigger?

 

[Wolf135]

As I said in another thread, parasites are such an important part of any ecosystem that's not managed by humans that it's naive to expect a wild animal not to have at least one kind of parasites. Considering Ts have been bred in captivity for generations by now, it's very possible that they've lost the immunity to certain parasites that wc individuals acquire through natural selection. This means you can grab an infected but asymptomatic wc animal and if you're unlucky enough it could wipe out a decent chunk of your collection.

Or it could just die on you all of a sudden.

For certain animals this isn't such a big deal, like if you grab a wild mantis and keep it in a proper enclosure at home that's totally ok IMHO especially considering that many mantids are actually invasive (Chinese giant mantis in North America). But, this is the exception not the rule. Usually, you're harming the wild population and the ecosystem and endangering the well being of your pets.

Do you know how you can tell if a T is wild caught?

 

[TheraMygale]

I think the subject of wild caught has been adressed.

my opinion on the matter: conservation projects and ethical breeders will require, at some point, wild stock. It provides good genetic markers and strengthens the dna.

many species on the market, that are “captive bred” come from inbreeding.

then people at home try to breed as well. Those spiderlings just get weaker and weaker. I would not buy a captive bred tarantula if i knew the exact background heritage, and that that heritage, was just the same brother and sister back and forth. But I don’t know now, do I?

that said, illegal poaching is bad. That is why it is important to source what you buy.

however, as long as there is a market for any living creature, there will be poaching because it is easy income. If only they knew the price these animals actualy get sold at down the line…

it is a shame. Humans and animals come together in so many ways. Sometimes, laws do not always aid in the protection of a species.

take Brazil and the laws around their exporting… they want () to protect their biodiversity, yet their government is deforesting so much so fast. Would exporting WC not be better at this point? Atleast the genetics could be preserved. If youre going to tear down a forest anyways…

yeah, i know its redundant broken record talk. But that is my opinion on the subject.

as for back in the day explorers. Their way of preserving and studying was to kill everything on their path.

i think we have come a long way from that. And we can do things better.

i come across a lot of wild edible plants during my hikes. These things, people are crazy about. I don’t harvest them, and I tell no one. I rather keep some of my secret hiking paths well garnished.

 

[TechnoGeek]

I think the subject of wild caught has been adressed.

my opinion on the matter: conservation projects and ethical breeders will require, at some point, wild stock. It provides good genetic markers and strengthens the dna.

many species on the market, that are “captive bred” come from inbreeding.

then people at home try to breed as well. Those spiderlings just get weaker and weaker. I would not buy a captive bred tarantula if i knew the exact background heritage, and that that heritage, was just the same brother and sister back and forth. But I don’t know now, do I?

that said, illegal poaching is bad. That is why it is important to source what you buy.

however, as long as there is a market for any living creature, there will be poaching because it is easy income. If only they knew the price these animals actualy get sold at down the line…

it is a shame. Humans and animals come together in so many ways. Sometimes, laws do not always aid in the protection of a species.

take Brazil and the laws around their exporting… they want () to protect their biodiversity, yet their government is deforesting so much so fast. Would exporting WC not be better at this point? Atleast the genetics could be preserved. If youre going to tear down a forest anyways…

yeah, i know its redundant broken record talk. But that is my opinion on the subject.

as for back in the day explorers. Their way of preserving and studying was to kill everything on their path.

i think we have come a long way from that. And we can do things better.

i come across a lot of wild edible plants during my hikes. These things, people are crazy about. I don’t harvest them, and I tell no one. I rather keep some of my secret hiking paths well garnished.

I strongly agree with the post, however this is only relevant to more experienced keepers and those who plan on breeding their Ts and have the knowledge on how to.

The biggest problem for most beginners isn't that they will hurt the wild population, it's that they aren't educated on how to diagnose an infection or an illness and don't quarantine whatever animals they collect which, if they already have an established collection, could end up wiping it out.

There's also the point that if it does become mainstream, it could make things more difficult for already struggling wild populations. So my opinion pretty much mirrors your own, it's a bad idea for most people, but shouldn't be frowned upon so much as it mostly depends on the circumstances.

For some spiders, they're incredibly common in the hobby at this point that genetic diversity should be fairly easy to achieve without resorting to wc individuals. But for others there is absolutely no way around it.

Think about the G rosea fiasco, over reliance on cheap imports made the supply pretty vulnerable to trade bans. Although I don't see 0 appeal in the species (or in say A. chalchodes, slow growing pet rocks aren't really my speed).

 

[TheraMygale]

I strongly agree with the post, however this is only relevant to more experienced keepers and those who plan on breeding their Ts and have the knowledge on how to.

The biggest problem for most beginners isn't that they will hurt the wild population, it's that they aren't educated on how to diagnose an infection or an illness and don't quarantine whatever animals they collect which, if they already have an established collection, could end up wiping it out.

There's also the point that if it does become mainstream, it could make things more difficult for already struggling wild populations. So my opinion pretty much mirrors your own, it's a bad idea for most people, but shouldn't be frowned upon so much as it mostly depends on the circumstances.

For some spiders, they're incredibly common in the hobby at this point that genetic diversity should be fairly easy to achieve without resorting to wc individuals. But for others there is absolutely no way around it.

Think about the G rosea fiasco, over reliance on cheap imports made the supply pretty vulnerable to trade bans. Although I don't see 0 appeal in the species (or in say A. chalchodes, slow growing pet rocks aren't really my speed).

Great minds think alike. People with an ninterest in science and research, you know, the research you do for knowledge and pleasure without getting paid for nor a degree, have different ways of thinking.

look at peta. They think keeping tarantulas is evil and the reason for decline. How minformed to you have to be to put out such claims?

if that is how we are to reason, then we should ban all research, all conservation efforts and all wild life movies. Someone needs to sue the BBC and get a restraing order on David Attenborough.

That was sarcastic of course. Sir Attenborough is and will always be one of my mentors. I grew up watching his dvds. Without knowing, his videos allowed me to develop my own passions.

the way they movies are made, definitely cross all the rules of wildlife observation. And yet they can do it. Because it is research.

lets just stop all research while we are at it.

i don’t like, nor do i approve, animal cruelty. I think the agricultural system can change to provide better care. I am not an abolitionalist.

i think further then that. You think its normal to eat pineapples in the dead of winter, in Alaska?

bananas in montreal when cars won’t starte and you have nonsecicles?

hm.

wild caught. It takes a lot of thinking and consideration.

habitat. Lets lose less. Lets make abundance the mission.

 

[TechnoGeek]

look at peta. They think keeping tarantulas is evil and the reason for decline. How minformed to you have to be to put out such claims?

The peta mindset isn't unique, it stems from romanticizing nature and thinking captivity is the sum of all evil while nature is a heavenly place where animals get to be the best versions of themselves. This couldn't be further from the truth, life in captivity is far better for most animals provided they receive proper care and don't get neglected. My parrot doesn't have an entire forest to himself, but he also doesn't have to deal with competition for food, parasites, predation, flooding, heat exhaustion, hunger, and a million other things.

Not to mention that thinking animals have an entire "wilderness" to themselves is pretty naive, and it's no less ridiculous than thinking you can go wherever you want in your city without worrying about being charged with breaking and entering or trespassing.

So really, nowadays most of this hippie mumbo jumbo is stemming from lack of knowledge and, dare I say, plenty of stupidity. This isn't to say that we should remove all animals from the wild obviously, or that any animal makes a good pet. I'm just explaining why wild collecting doesn't always have to be a terrible thing.

 

[TheraMygale]

The peta mindset isn't unique, it stems from romanticizing nature and thinking captivity is the sum of all evil while nature is a heavenly place where animals get to be the best versions of themselves. This couldn't be further from the truth, life in captivity is far better for most animals provided they receive proper care and don't get neglected. My parrot doesn't have an entire forest to himself, but he also doesn't have to deal with competition for food, parasites, predation, flooding, heat exhaustion, hunger, and a million other things.

Not to mention that thinking animals have an entire "wilderness" to themselves is pretty naive, and it's no more ridiculous than thinking you can go whenever you want in your city without worrying about being charged with breaking and entering or trespassing.

So really, nowadays most of this hippie mumbo jumbo is stemming from lack of knowledge and, dare I say, plenty of stupidity. This isn't to say that we should remove all animals from the wild obviously, or that any animal makes a good pet. I'm just explaining why wild collecting doesn't always have to be a terrible thing.

The only wild collecting i do not agree with, is in the whaling industry. Hiding behind fasle pretense, science.

we do not need to harvest whales and dolphins to study them. They more then accept our intrusions. And many biologists are able to collect what they need without killing.

i am not that stupid to accept that harvesting whales and dolphins, is to study them. And there is plenty of other foods already being fished to extinction.

i think there is a limit to masquarades.

i will not be naming countries for the sake of respect. But we all know where it is happening.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

How do you know if a pet shop is selling wc Ts ? Are Mexican red knee /fireleg and similar species still wc they have adults often ? They don’t label if there wc . This is my local shop.

Your Expensive pet shops !

All I see are stuff I can’t afford They have what looks like a 4” curly hair (looks possibly female but very skinny ) and a 2” seemani sling $45 each worth it ? Everything else is way too expensive. Some are reasonably priced being near adult size but unsexed . Sorry if it’s too many pics .

arachnoboards.com

 

[TheraMygale]

Unless they state its all captive bred, then its all about the questions you ask. Parents can be wild caught through a breeding program. Or simply harvested, worse: illegaly gathered.

ask the right questions.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Unless they state its all captive bred, then its all about the questions you ask. Parents can be wild caught through a breeding program. Or simply harvested, worse: illegaly gathered.

ask the right questions.

The employees in that store don’t seem to know anything I might as well not bother even asking . They injured my last spider as I was buying it I had to use cornstarch on its leg. I’ve gotten 2 healthy Ts there out of 6 Ts so far . But it’s my only option I can’t order online my parents will get angry . PetSmart never has a red knee in stock but it’s cheaper there. I could always call there first . I have to pay with cash because the card reader charges a fee of 5% or more.

 

[Matt Man]

Great minds think alike. People with an ninterest in science and research, you know, the research you do for knowledge and pleasure without getting paid for nor a degree, have different ways of thinking.

look at peta. They think keeping tarantulas is evil and the reason for decline. How minformed to you have to be to put out such claims?

if that is how we are to reason, then we should ban all research, all conservation efforts and all wild life movies. Someone needs to sue the BBC and get a restraing order on David Attenborough.

That was sarcastic of course. Sir Attenborough is and will always be one of my mentors. I grew up watching his dvds. Without knowing, his videos allowed me to develop my own passions.

the way they movies are made, definitely cross all the rules of wildlife observation. And yet they can do it. Because it is research.

lets just stop all research while we are at it.

i don’t like, nor do i approve, animal cruelty. I think the agricultural system can change to provide better care. I am not an abolitionalist.

i think further then that. You think its normal to eat pineapples in the dead of winter, in Alaska?

bananas in montreal when cars won’t starte and you have nonsecicles?

hm.

wild caught. It takes a lot of thinking and consideration.

habitat. Lets lose less. Lets make abundance the mission.

and the ironic thing is hunters (through licensing, tags, lotteries) put more $ into wildlife conservation than Peta ever has.
but yes, your points are dead on, and numerous species have been saved from extinction by zoological societies taking what remained in the wild and captive breeding them and rereleasing them into the wild. Most of the people I know who started CB programs by harvesting WC species are all releasing %s of their slings back into the wild

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

and the ironic thing is hunters (through licensing, tags, lotteries) put more $ into wildlife conservation than Peta ever has.
but yes, your points are dead on, and numerous species have been saved from extinction by zoological societies taking what remained in the wild and captive breeding them and rereleasing them into the wild. Most of the people I know who started CB programs by harvesting WC species are all releasing %s of their slings back into the wild

Yeah and only hunters who kill rare endangered species like blue fin tunas are hurting the environment. I want to order Ts online but I can’t ship them to my house because my parents are always home. And they don’t want me getting more. The other option is pet shops which I’ve had bad luck at so far if you check my post above. I only want a few Ts anyways my mom thinks I want to get alot of them so is on my case. I haven’t even asked them again about getting more. They will just say no.
Mine are getting old and I just lost one.🥲

 

[Matt Man]

Yeah and only hunters who kill rare endangered species like blue fin tunas are hurting the environment. I want to order Ts online but I can’t ship them to my house because my parents are always home. And they don’t want me getting more. The other option is pet shops which I’ve had bad luck at so far if you check my post above. I only want a few Ts anyways my mom thinks I want to get alot of them so is on my case. I haven’t even asked them again about getting more. They will just say no.
Mine are getting old and I just lost one.🥲

I am familiar with your story. These are the woes of the young. You didn't score in the "parent lottery". My daughter got her first T at 5 or 6, her first lizard around 10 and first snake shortly after. Your parents can message me anytime if you'd like them to. My daughter just got admitted to nearly all of the most prestigious science programs in her major and IMO introducing her to exotic animals was a great start in the sciences

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I am familiar with your story. These are the woes of the young. You didn't score in the "parent lottery". My daughter got her first T at 5 or 6, her first lizard around 10 and first snake shortly after. Your parents can message me anytime if you'd like them to. My daughter just got admitted to nearly all of the most prestigious science programs in her major and IMO introducing her to exotic animals was a great start in the sciences

They won’t negotiate with me , I have to wait until they leave for a week or pick up stuff at the hub and pretend I’m doing something else. I probably wasted $150 at the pet shop on Ts that died within a month or two. Yet I’m still forced to go back because I lost an old t and I can’t sneak a sling into an enclosure that big. So it stays empty and they notice or I get a placeholder.