When do Brazilian Salmon Pink Bird-eaters sexually mature

[Dovey]

Here is a thread outlining it: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/tarantula-dealers-at-toronto-expos.290085/

Basically, some venomous snakes were confiscated as illegal imports and the city responded by banning all venomous animals. This includes tarantulas, of course. It is becoming difficult to ship Ts in Canada, too.

@VanessaS do you have more details? I'm out West and less familiar with the situation back East.

This is awful! COME ON, Canada, FIGHT THE MAN! Don't tread on me! No step on spoder! Come and TAKE IT! What bull s***!

 

[Dovey]

They are easy to breed, and they yield literally thousands of eggs. No one wants them because everyone has them. It's not that they're not fun to keep, it's that we don't need another 7"+ duplicate in our collection.

I do, I do! But only one or two...not 1 or 2 thousand!

 

[Vanessa]

Poor OP! All he did was ask when they mature. He didn’t mention anything about breeding them. If you don’t like LPs, no one’s forcing you to buy or breed them. But telling an animal owner how much you dislike their animal is a pretty rude.

It is pretty rude not to read someone's post before making comments like this. I never said that I didn't like them, I was pretty clear on why I said what I did. There is no tarantula that I dislike.
What I said was...

People can't even give spiderlings away of that species in our area. The market is saturated with Lasiodora parahybana and nobody wants them.

This isn't about having one, or even five, in your collection - it's about breeding a spider that is going to add potentially almost 2,000 to your collection. There is no market to sell them anymore... that ship has sailed long ago.

The only reason someone asks if they are 'sexually' mature specifically is for breeding purposes. Otherwise, they would have asked how long does it take them to reach full size, etc., but 'sexually mature' is pretty self explanatory.
There have been numerous conversations about people breeding this specific species and the answer is always the same - the market all over North America is saturated, they are being given away as freebies, and people can't get any money for them. The reason people are saying these things is because they very much DO care that people aren't stuck with hundreds of unwanted spiderlings and resort to killing them because they can't even give them away.

 

[Vanessa]

I believe tarantulas (among other exotics) are not permitted in the greater Toronto area of Southern Ontario, Canada.

I will clarify for @Dovey. Many, many, municipalities all across Southern Ontario ban venomous animals - arachnids included. They are even considering a province wide ban which will devastate the hobby and basically put an end to it. All that it will take to push that forward is someone making the news that they have been found with 2,000 spiderlings (especially within an area already covered by a ban), or an irresponsible hobbyist losing one and some unsuspecting person finding it in their home.
All it will take to avoid this from happening is people asking how their actions will impact this hobby and whether that impact will be positive or negative.

 

[Vanessa]

There was an expo held in Toronto this past Sunday. There was a complaint called in to Animal Control specifically about Tangled in Webs attending, due to the fact that the animals are banned within the same area that the expo is being held. We are not permitted to sell to customers within the GTA and we are to take down their phone numbers in the event that an audit is done by the expo organizers.
Luckily, the Animal Control officer was familiar with the situation and we were permitted to remain at the expo, but that might not be the case the next time around. There is a huge issue with snake owners publicly blaming tarantula owners for bans - which is ludicrous since there has not been a tarantula story in the news for probably a decade and there has been snake owners headlining the news several times in the last year alone.
I have been around long enough to have seen this before and I am hoping that the whole thing dies down before decisions are made that will put an end to this hobby across the entire province. In the meantime, it is imperative that nothing happens to cast more negative press on this hobby and the only people in a position to prevent that is hobbyists.
I see this all the time - someone who has been in the hobby for a hot minute thinking that they can do whatever they want. They make decisions that are not sound, and have been made without the necessary due diligence, and then when it explodes they are out of the hobby and onto the next one... leaving those long term hobbyists to bear the brunt of their irresponsible actions.

 

[Anoplogaster]

To be fair, OP did not contribute much to this lively discussion (other than the initial post). So everyone else had to speculate about the reasons why he asked the question.

This is exactly my point. It started with an assumption that he intends on breeding. For all we know, he might’ve just been curious about whether or not he has a female because females live longer. Unless he specifically asked a question about breeding, I find it unnecessary to jump to that conclusion. I’d be surprised if we hear from the OP again after all this shaming for something he may have never intended on doing in the first place.

 

[Vanessa]

For all we know, he might’ve just been curious about whether or not he has a female because females live longer. Unless he specifically asked a question about breeding, I find it unnecessary to jump to that conclusion.

He specifically asked about sexual maturity. The only reason a person needs that information is because they are intending to breed.

 

[Anoplogaster]

He specifically asked about sexual maturity. The only reason a person needs that information is because they are intending to breed.

Again, that’s purely an assumption. “Sexually mature” could also mean “How long before I know if it’s a boy or girl?”

Depending on experience level in a particular field, people ask things in different ways. As someone who teaches college students, I’ve come across MANY situations where someone asks a question that is worded differently than I would, only because they lack experience with the terminology that is commonly used.

 

[Dovey]

There was an expo held in Toronto this past Sunday. There was a complaint called in to Animal Control specifically about Tangled in Webs attending, due to the fact that the animals are banned within the same area that the expo is being held. We are not permitted to sell to customers within the GTA and we are to take down their phone numbers in the event that an audit is done by the expo organizers.
Luckily, the Animal Control officer was familiar with the situation and we were permitted to remain at the expo, but that might not be the case the next time around. There is a huge issue with snake owners publicly blaming tarantula owners for bans - which is ludicrous since there has not been a tarantula story in the news for probably a decade and there has been snake owners headlining the news several times in the last year alone.
I have been around long enough to have seen this before and I am hoping that the whole thing dies down before decisions are made that will put an end to this hobby across the entire province. In the meantime, it is imperative that nothing happens to cast more negative press on this hobby and the only people in a position to prevent that is hobbyists.
I see this all the time - someone who has been in the hobby for a hot minute thinking that they can do whatever they want. They make decisions that are not sound, and have been made without the necessary due diligence, and then when it explodes they are out of the hobby and onto the next one... leaving those long term hobbyists to bear the brunt of their irresponsible actions.

I think what is actually imperative here is that y'all need to get a good lobbyist! Listen to me sounding all Texan, but pressure from people who make a significant amount of their income from tarantulas, and also from every second grader with a spider at home and his or her parents/teacher is what will get things done.

And the snake people need to suck it up and unite with you...feed each other or starve alone! Today maybe cobras and spiders, but tomorrow it'll be ball pythons. That's how these things work.

There's got to be a lot of information about overcoming breed or species specific bans out there. Facts and logic are just so overwhelming against them, and either racism or classism are so often at the foundation of them. But local authorities, particularly, think that they can score points with very little work and seem to be busy by feeding in to what they perceive to be the common feeling against this or that animal. It's finding out that the common feeling is quite the contrary that will get local leaders out of the animal banning business. I should think USArk could provide some good information on their progress, for instance, against the Lacey Act here in the United States.

And thwarting this sort of legislation is exactly the right task to help Canadian and US tarantula fanciers to join forces. If it's y'all today, it's us tomorrow!

This is all fairly recent, correct? Is anybody organizing to get all of this malarky dismissed? Because you really can't prevent irresponsibility. There's always some idiot who's going to free handle a large rock python without a spotter; and animal hoarders will, alas, always be with us.

 

[Dovey]

These sorts of bans have such ugliness at their heart.

I lived in a city that tried to pass anti pit bull breed legislation. The local law school did some research and found that a vast majority of bite or savaging incidents were perpetrated by breeds the public associated with white citizens--working and sporting breeds--whereas there were actually very few incidents perpetrated by pit bulls, which many people associated with young, black male owners.

I'd be willing to bet local legislators think there won't be much of an outcry if they quash the hobby of a bunch of blue haired, tattooed, weirdly pierced spider people who probably don't vote, anyway. These bans really feed on stereotypes.

 

[dangerforceidle]

I lived in a city that tried to pass anti pit bull breed legislation. The local law school did some research and found that a vast majority of bite or savaging incidents were perpetrated by breeds the public associated with white citizens--working and sporting breeds--whereas there were actually very few incidents perpetrated by pit bulls, which many people associated with young, black male owners..

Ontario also has legislation against pit bulls... they're very prone to just banning things outright.

In 2005 Ontario updated the Dog Owners Liability Act to create North America’s first province- or state-wide ban on pit bull terriers, Staffordshire bull terriers, American Staffordshire terriers and American pit bull terriers, as well as any dogs with physical characteristics that are substantially similar to those breeds.

 

[Vanessa]

The ban on venomous animals in the GTA has been in place for over a decade - it might be even close to two at this point. Bans are never reversed in this country and they have just made it more strict by introducing new regulations on businesses who use banned animals for events - taking a tarantula to a child's birthday party in the GTA was exempt before, but has now been banned as of January 1, 2018. They are also looking at regulating both Canada Post and couriers to ensure that they are not delivering packages that might contain banned animals within areas who have a ban. They are covering all their bases, because that is what they are paid to do.
Animal Control and Fish and Wildlife are frequent guests at the expos and they are questioning tarantula dealers all the time.
The fight took place well over a decade ago and tarantula people lost. There are three main dealers in the entire country, there are not a significant amount of people whose livelihood is dependent on them and they just don't care if it is anyway.
The trend is widening the ban and not reducing it. We are not going to go backwards at this point and we have to concentrate on not making it worse. People think I overreact to these posts, but I'm not. Irresponsible hobbyists cause an enormous amount of grief and they always have. People just don't think and, even if they do, they don't care. Those who cause the problems are 'drive by' hobbyists - they get one or two tarantulas, do something stupid without even a rudimentary amount of research, then off they go to another animal and leave long term hobbyists with the mess they have created. It's a problem and we need to put the pressure on them from inside the hobby. The perception that people have of tarantula keepers is not wrong and we have to stop blaming them and start looking at changing that perception from within.
Don't get in over your head with species that you don't have experience for. Don't start breeding unwanted species just because you feel like it and without having even looked at the market and whether it is feasible. Speak to dealers and have a plan before breeding so you aren't stuck selling them on Kijiji where you can be easily caught by by-law officials. Don't draw attention to yourself or the hobby.
It's that simple.