What's wrong with its leg?

catfishrod69

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hmmm thats pretty crazy....didnt know that could happen thanks



Autotomy (voluntary self-amputation) can be induced by grabbing hold of a leg and not letting go. The spider acts as though it were escaping from a predator and sacrificing a leg in order to get away. Very much like a lizard dropping its tail to escape a predator. A very important thing to remember is that autotomy MUST be voluntary and deliberate on the part of the spider. There are physiological responses that shut down fluid loss when the spider intentionally drops a leg. These responses do not happen if you surgically remove a leg. So - there's a risk in trying to induce autotomy. If you only succeed in breaking the leg off rather than inducing autotomy, the tarantula will "bleed" to death because the necessary physiological responses that close the capillaries do not take place.
 

Bill S

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hmmm thats pretty crazy....didnt know that could happen thanks
There's some good information on this in Rainer Foelix's Biology of Spiders. Experiments showed that a leg amputated on a sleeping spider bled out, while autotomized legs didn't. Another interesting observation is described in Eisner's For the Love of Insects. They did some experiments with spiders and predatory bugs and found that spiders bitten by a predatory bug that injects a toxin could save themselves by dropping the bitten leg. Ones that did not drop the bitten leg died from the injected toxin.
 

Bosing

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Well, here's wishing your T will fix herself in the next molt.

Question, guys. Does amputating the legs ensure full regeneration next molt?
 

catfishrod69

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thats really cool...i actually have a p. cambridgei sling that was missing a leg, then the next morning, was missing another, didnt see the leg anywhere, must have ate it, then the next morning, it had molted and had two new full legs....crazy


There's some good information on this in Rainer Foelix's Biology of Spiders. Experiments showed that a leg amputated on a sleeping spider bled out, while autotomized legs didn't. Another interesting observation is described in Eisner's For the Love of Insects. They did some experiments with spiders and predatory bugs and found that spiders bitten by a predatory bug that injects a toxin could save themselves by dropping the bitten leg. Ones that did not drop the bitten leg died from the injected toxin.
 

Bill S

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thats really cool...i actually have a p. cambridgei sling that was missing a leg, then the next morning, was missing another, didnt see the leg anywhere, must have ate it, then the next morning, it had molted and had two new full legs....crazy
We have a lot of Selenopid crab spiders aroung the house. They must live a rough life because we often find them missing legs. I've seen them missing as many as three legs on one side and one on the other. But somehow they keep on going.
 

catfishrod69

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that would be a rough life, but nature finds a way...


We have a lot of Selenopid crab spiders aroung the house. They must live a rough life because we often find them missing legs. I've seen them missing as many as three legs on one side and one on the other. But somehow they keep on going.
 

AgentD006las

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thats really cool...i actually have a p. cambridgei sling that was missing a leg, then the next morning, was missing another, didnt see the leg anywhere, must have ate it, then the next morning, it had molted and had two new full legs....crazy
So your trying to say it lost a leg one day and regenerated it the very next?! I dont think it was regenerated that fast. It takes time to construct a new leg from what i understand.
 

catfishrod69

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hey, i absolutely swear....i thought it would grow back in short peices with each molt, but i swear i recieved it, it was missing last leg on right side, next day was missing the leg in front of the other one, then next morning had molted and has two whole legs, they look just a fuzz skinnier, and lighter colored, but are the same legnth as all the others...ill try and get a pic tonight upclose and show you....


So your trying to say it lost a leg one day and regenerated it the very next?! I dont think it was regenerated that fast. It takes time to construct a new leg from what i understand.
 

AgentD006las

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hey, i absolutely swear....i thought it would grow back in short peices with each molt, but i swear i recieved it, it was missing last leg on right side, next day was missing the leg in front of the other one, then next morning had molted and has two whole legs, they look just a fuzz skinnier, and lighter colored, but are the same legnth as all the others...ill try and get a pic tonight upclose and show you....
I had a 1.25" P. regalis that lost 5 limbs a couple months ago. It molted about a week later after losing those legs. They didnt regenerate until a month later when he molted again.
 

catfishrod69

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ok here are the pics and info...i take back one think that i said though...it was actually missing 2 legs when i got it, thought only 1, but was 2....anyways i recieved this little sling on jan 28th, it was missing two legs, then 2 days later, molted, and had two pretty much full legs, they are just a hair skinnier and lighter colored...i have had the sling for 8 days now.........the first pic, is the day i got it, right after taking it outta its vial, the next pic is from just a few minutes ago when i took one to show the new legs, and the last pic is a puzzle peice next to it, just to show size, and also the new full legs....



So your trying to say it lost a leg one day and regenerated it the very next?! I dont think it was regenerated that fast. It takes time to construct a new leg from what i understand.
 
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BlueFang

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Interesting case - I have never seen femurs fused like this.

How about this: if your spider is eating and doesn't show any other signs of distress it's not really a "problem" for your tarantula.
Wait one molt and see if it fixes itself. If it does - perfect.
If it still has fused femurs after the next molt you can consider if you want to take the rather harsh action of trying to induce the autotomy or just leave it as is and label it "super special tarantula" ;)
There is no benefit to amputation whatsoever AND you are risking the death of your tarantula.
 

Transylvania

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Interesting case - I have never seen femurs fused like this.

How about this: if your spider is eating and doesn't show any other signs of distress it's not really a "problem" for your tarantula.
Wait one molt and see if it fixes itself. If it does - perfect.
If it still has fused femurs after the next molt you can consider if you want to take the rather harsh action of trying to induce the autotomy or just leave it as is and label it "super special tarantula" ;)
There is no benefit to amputation whatsoever AND you are risking the death of your tarantula.
I've decided to leave it alone (unless, of course, it ever starts to be a problem). I just think that the clumsy way that he walks is really adorable. :D It doesn't seem to impair his ability to tackle cricket legs and attack them as if they're actually struggling to get away. :rolleyes:
 

xhexdx

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Question, guys. Does amputating the legs ensure full regeneration next molt?
No.

Depending on the size of the spider and how close to the next molt it is, it can take two molts to fully regenerate.

This doesn't mean it will only regenerate part of the leg...it will regen the entire thing. The leg will just be smaller and weaker.

This is the case whether you force an amputation or the leg drops for other reasons. I don't believe forcing an amputation would make a difference.
 

BatGirl

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Teenage Mutant Ninja Tarantula (TMNT)

keep it away from the mutagen, heh, heh...
 

Transylvania

Gondorian
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You all will like this, I think. I found the T's most recent exuvium and took a picture of the legs (they're the two on the left). It's obvious now that it's internal:

 

Transylvania

Gondorian
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Quick update - he molted!

I checked on him Monday afternoon and noticed that his body was significantly darker, so I knew a molt was approaching. The next time I checked on him (Wednesday afternoon), I found that he had molted. I assume there weren't any complications; everything appeared normal and just fine. And his femurs are still fused together. ;) Apparently they don't cause problems, so I'll leave them as is.
 

Musicwolf

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Cool - - I guess it's just going to be interesting it's whole life - - keep photo documenting it at each stage - - could be useful to someone later.
 

Transylvania

Gondorian
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Next stage (about 1"), adult coloration starting to come in:



The fusion is becoming more apparent and obvious, and it looks really funky from underneath (I will post a ventral picture whenever I get the chance to capture it). The T still moves quite clumsily, but the deformed legs don't seem to bother it. My next photo update will be when it's almost full-grown. It'll be interesting to see these legs when it's several inches larger.
 

Formerphobe

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Beautiful spider! Thanks for the update. Glad to hear it is still progressing. Since it doesn't seem to be aware that it's 'handicapped', I wouldn't bother to tell it... :)
 
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