What did i just buy at the mesa expo??? Thailand Black Bird Spider???

[Jquack530]

I wasn't trying to be mean, but stay away from the reptile guys. I am by no means an expert myself. I have only been in the hobby about a year now. I am totally fascinated and research all the time, and eventhough I rarely log in I am on here several times a day, everyday, learning as much as I possibly can. Like most others I still have alot to learn. Anyways, regardless of how it went down, and it being a mature male, that is a beautiful tarantula. I'm sure you can keep it along the lines of any other Haplopelma and it will be fine. Too bad you can't properly identify him and find a female for him, or atleast send him off to someone who has a female. Good luck to you and your new friend.

 

[AriZoNaS HacKeR]

I wasn't trying to be mean, but stay away from the reptile guys. I am by no means an expert myself. I have only been in the hobby about a year now. I am totally fascinated and research all the time, and eventhough I rarely log in I am on here several times a day, everyday, learning as much as I possibly can. Like most others I still have alot to learn. Anyways, regardless of how it went down, and it being a mature male, that is a beautiful tarantula. I'm sure you can keep it along the lines of any other Haplopelma and it will be fine. Too bad you can't properly identify him and find a female for him, or atleast send him off to someone who has a female. Good luck to you and your new friend.

thats what i was trying to say i would have bought it no matter what its a cool looking T!!! thats all that matters to me! ima bring it to a few stores and see what their opinion is aswell hes acting real nice an good he caught a cricket in the air thats worth 20 bucks to me!!! i just love spending days making a awesome enclosure thats why im trying to hard to find what species so i can make a cool a$$ SETUP!! thats all the enjoyment for me

 

[Jquack530]

Also, if you haven't already, I suggest picking up The Tarantula Keeper's Guide 3rd edition. It won't say 3rd edition on the cover, it looks just like the 2nd, but you can distinguish it because it says revised edition on the cover under the title. This thing is worth its weight in gold!

---------- Post added 11-18-2012 at 01:12 AM ----------

Don't rely on stores for help, as they are oftentimes just as clueless as the reptile guys. Hopefully someone will see that has a way to identify it. Kinda like how some can tell you the difference between Theraphosa stirmi, blondi, and apophyses by certain slight characteristics. Again, good luck!

 

[AriZoNaS HacKeR]

Also, if you haven't already, I suggest picking up The Tarantula Keeper's Guide 3rd edition. It won't say 3rd edition on the cover, it looks just like the 2nd, but you can distinguish it because it says revised edition on the cover under the title. This thing is worth its weight in gold!

---------- Post added 11-18-2012 at 01:12 AM ----------

Don't rely on stores for help, as they are oftentimes just as clueless as the reptile guys. Hopefully someone will see that has a way to identify it. Kinda like how some can tell you the difference between Theraphosa stirmi, blondi, and apophyses by certain slight characteristics. Again, good luck!

i found exactly what your talking about online im downloading the E book of it on Vuze!! i wanna figure this guy out so i can make his cage really awesome he catches roaches and crickets in the air they dont even touch the ground i really got lucky on this buy i saw it and was like thats unique pulled out a 100 and got tons of change!! idk why everyones so negative i just like the experiences its tarantula chat so lets chat about it anybody see the pic a few posts above??

 

[Lopez]

Jesus, three pages. How on earth did this thread get to three pages?

1) The spider is a mature male. The palpal emboli can clearly be seen.
2) It is Asian - almost certainly a Haplopelma species. It is almost impossible to tell Haplopelma males apart by pictures. Ignore anybody who tells you it's "definitely" albostriatum/minax/longipes/lividym/vonwirthi etc - they are guessing at best.
3) Care for all the above species is basically the same. Keep it in a tall tank with deep substrate and sink a broom handle down one end to start a burrow. Feed it. In a few months it will die. It might last longer if you keep it at room temperature.

Enjoy the spider

 

[BrettG]

That was your plumipes? The guy said $25 and I hesitated and he threw out $20 which I went for. I got a few gigas from you a while back as well, which are now 7th instar, I love em.

Yep. Most of the slings at AzReptiles were produced by us.I have robustum and a few other juvies there collecting dust as well.

 

[Kazaam]

Looks like a Haplopelma sp 'Neglected' or 'Wild caught and put on woodchips' to me.

 

[MrCrackerpants]

If you "woudla payed alot more" then why didn't you seek out a CB animal from a breeder who could of gave you a background and info on what species you were buying? You fell victim to spontaneous buy due to the low ball price. The spider was the real victim here though.



Sorry to disagree with you, it wasn't a rescue, it was a disservice to the species. Now this supplier will have the money and incentive to buy a few more that will be raped from the wild. Do you have any idea how many of these WC spiders die before making it to the dealers table, that you purchased a "dehydrated and hungry' spider for 15 bucks from, and still have no idea what species you are buying?

There is no reason to think this spider is a Hapolpema minax right now. Many Asian spiders look alike. Do you know if its a mature male or not yet? Any pics of the palps?

later, Tom

---------- Post added 11-18-2012 at 12:18 AM ----------

EDIT, as I was posting at the same time as you, Nice mature male of a unidentified Asian spider you got there for 15 bucks! I'm sure your dealer made you aware that it was a mature male right?

I hate reptile dealers that sell WC spider stuff on the side, if I haven't made that clear yet!

later,Tom

Tom,

I appreciate this post acknowledging that global species are impacted by over-collecting in indigenous habitats.

 

[BrettG]

LLL is probably the worst place to buy a spider from,heck even the reviews forum here supports that. The sad part is that even though they are selling CHEAP spiders,they are all WC and do nothing but wipe out that sp. in the wild.Just think of all the slings that MM was capable of producing if he were left in the wild,where the populations ARE dropping due to places like this trying to make nothing more than a quick buck off of uneducated buyers.OP you wanted peoples opinions,well,the popular opinion is to avoid places like them.All they are doing is supporting the rape of these spiders habitats just to line their own pockets.CBB stuff may not be $15,but it is superior both ethically and morally,and probably in better health and able to be ID's to boot......

 

[Sharno]

LLL is probably the worst place to buy a spider from,heck even the reviews forum here supports that. The sad part is that even though they are selling CHEAP spiders,they are all WC and do nothing but wipe out that sp. in the wild.Just think of all the slings that MM was capable of producing if he were left in the wild,where the populations ARE dropping due to places like this trying to make nothing more than a quick buck off of uneducated buyers.OP you wanted peoples opinions,well,the popular opinion is to avoid places like them.All they are doing is supporting the rape of these spiders habitats just to line their own pockets.CBB stuff may not be $15,but it is superior both ethically and morally,and probably in better health and able to be ID's to boot......

Can someone help me understand the logic and economics here?

First, correct me if I am wrong. A dealer obtains WC Ts and sells off the larger ones at what sounds like a steal. In reality, they are MMs with not much time left. I would assume these are also more readily found in many species as the MM are the ones out and about anyway. This is harmful to the populations obviously as the males are being removed before having the chance to breed. Hence, this is bad for everyone - the Ts, the person getting ripped off for buying what they think is a healthy adult T and is really getting a T on its way out.

What I don't understand is why there isn't more money in it for a dealer to either breed or sell the MM to a breeder? If the dealer is only in it for the money why aren't they breeding the MM they obtain for the chance at the eggsac babies, or selling the MM to a breeder for a chance at a 50/50? Is the point that the less conscientious dealers don't have the time/facilities/interest in breeding (ability to handle the babies and resell and/or find partners) and are more interested in the quick buck of $15?

This is a serious question. I am trying to understand if the point is that the kind of dealers that do this are more into reptiles and sell Ts as an aside and just don't care/aren't set up to breed, or if it's simply too cost prohibitive for an average dealer to actually try to mate a MM rather than sell it for $15.

 

[BrettG]

Honestly,because to most of these reptile dealers/breeders a Tarantula is just a "bug",that while having a good profit margin,makes them almost nothing compared to snakes,lizards,etc.The amount of money generated is minuscule compared to a reptile.I mean good lord,I just saw a $17,000 snake at the Expo.THAT is where the profit is to these guys.

---------- Post added 11-18-2012 at 02:18 PM ----------

And have you received the orange spray paint that I sent yet?

 

[Sharno]

Honestly,because to most of these reptile dealers/breeders a Tarantula is just a "bug",that while having a good profit margin,makes them almost nothing compared to snakes,lizards,etc.The amount of money generated is minuscule compared to a reptile.I mean good lord,I just saw a $17,000 snake at the Expo.THAT is where the profit is to these guys.

---------- Post added 11-18-2012 at 02:18 PM ----------

And have you received the orange spray paint that I sent yet?

You are the one giving me grief in the chatroom? Come on! What does someone have to do to get a serious answer around here....

 

[BrettG]

You are the one giving me grief in the chatroom? Come on! What does someone have to do to get a serious answer around here....

How was what I typed above NOT serious?It is the TRUTH.It is NOT worth it to MOST reptile breeders to breed Tarantulas.Tarantulas are SMALL CHANGE compared to snakes and monitors.Hence the crappy conditions they are kept in.It is EASIER for the dealer to just have a ton of WC crap shipped in for $2 a spider and sell it for $15+ than to attempt to breed themselves.Breeding is NOT an instant cash source like bringing in boatloads of WC garbage.You can sure as hell count on some villager/native plucking spiders from holes and trees for a dollar a day vs pairing spiders over and over and getting nothing.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Looks like a Haplopelma sp 'Neglected' or 'Wild caught and put on woodchips' to me.

Too true that . It make me sick to see that way Ts are handled at the shows . The cramped little deli cup that you buy them in are probably the same container that they have been living in . I actually once had a seller tell me that an OBT that was obviously in a death curl was instead just sitting defensively because of all the bright lights and commotion . It would perk right up after I got it home and it had a chance to calm down . It's all about the Benjamins and these animals are the ones that pay the price . Since the average person has been conditioned to hate spiders and by extension tarantulas , nobody cares . This why there are so many videos on YouTube showing tarantulas , scorpions and centipedes being tortured and forced to fight to the death while some yokel cheers and giggles in the background . Yet if someone posted a video of two bunnies fighting to the death Nancy Grace would have their pictures flashing across the screen while the local authorities would have them in cuffs . Don't get me wrong as I am absolutely not advocating Gladiator Bunnies . I just want to see the end of the horrible mistreatment of Arachnids at the hands of dimwitted show folks that don't care many Ts die or how badly they suffer in the name of profit . There is nothing wrong with selling Ts to make a little money , but at least give them reasonable housing and basics like food and water . If you did then you would have much nicer looking animals to sell and probably a larger return in repeat customers . I personally buy from the same people again and again simply because I know the quality of the animals that I will receive .

 

[spiderengineer]

Honestly,because to most of these reptile dealers/breeders a Tarantula is just a "bug",that while having a good profit margin,makes them almost nothing compared to snakes,lizards,etc.The amount of money generated is minuscule compared to a reptile.I mean good lord,I just saw a $17,000 snake at the Expo.THAT is where the profit is to these guys.

---------- Post added 11-18-2012 at 02:18 PM ----------

And have you received the orange spray paint that I sent yet?

another possibility is that they know full well that its a MM and so if they make it cheap and make it seem like its some unknown specie. then they can make a cheap buck on an uninformed customer. some times I find it hard to believe that all these reptile seller in the plus years doing this job could not distinguish between a male and female spider and also know what the disadvantage of a male means. I realize their main product are reptile, but your telling me then never just thought hey lets look up some of these guys and see what I can find out about them. that way if somebody ask me a question about them I can sound like i know what I am talking about. Its not like they need to find out the husbandry just the sex, which for a MM is pretty obvious. I understand before maturity is more difficult, but I mean a quick Wikipedia search could pretty much tell them what they need to look for. also the OP stated that there were more expensive older spiders for sale. it makes me think the seller knew exactly what it was and what they were doing. not calling the OP a sucker, but saying that this is like buying a used car from a salemen sometime you just can't trust them so its better to do research before you buy. To bad there is no blue book for T's :biggrin:

---------- Post added 11-18-2012 at 03:53 PM ----------

Too true that . It make me sick to see that way Ts are handled at the shows . The cramped little deli cup that you buy them in are probably the same container that they have been living in . I actually once had a seller tell me that an OBT that was obviously in a death curl was instead just sitting defensively because of all the bright lights and commotion . It would perk right up after I got it home and it had a chance to calm down . It's all about the Benjamins and these animals are the ones that pay the price . Since the average person has been conditioned to hate spiders and by extension tarantulas , nobody cares . This why there are so many videos on YouTube showing tarantulas , scorpions and centipedes being tortured and forced to fight to the death while some yokel cheers and giggles in the background . Yet if someone posted a video of two bunnies fighting to the death Nancy Grace would have their pictures flashing across the screen while the local authorities would have them in cuffs . Don't get me wrong as I am absolutely not advocating Gladiator Bunnies . I just want to see the end of the horrible mistreatment of Arachnids at the hands of dimwitted show folks that don't care many Ts die or how badly they suffer in the name of profit . There is nothing wrong with selling Ts to make a little money , but at least give them reasonable housing and basics like food and water . If you did then you would have much nicer looking animals to sell and probably a larger return in repeat customers . I personally buy from the same people again and again simply because I know the quality of the animals that I will receive .

Don't let your guard down around rabbits
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-43QLMN1dgL4/Txo6rk6560I/AAAAAAAAAKo/6Ej-pXCrZsU/s1600/Rabbitattack.jpg

 

[BrettG]

another possibility is that they know full well that its a MM and so if they make it cheap and make it seem like its some unknown specie. then they can make a cheap buck on an uninformed customer. some times I find it hard to believe that all these reptile seller in the plus years doing this job could not distinguish between a male and female spider and also know what the disadvantage of a male means. I realize their main product are reptile, but your telling me then never just thought hey lets look up some of these guys and see what I can find out about them. that way if somebody ask me a question about them I can sound like i know what I am talking about. Its not like they need to find out the husbandry just the sex, which for a MM is pretty obvious. I understand before maturity is more difficult, but I mean a quick Wikipedia search could pretty much tell them what they need to look for. also the OP stated that there were more expensive older spiders for sale. it makes me think the seller knew exactly what it was and what they were doing. not calling the OP a sucker, but saying that this is like buying a used car from a salemen sometime you just can't trust them so its better to do research before you buy. To bad there is no blue book for T's :biggrin:

The people I knew that did it just did not give a damn.It was easier to just toss them all into deli's and charge 15-$20 for each and every one than to bother even attempting to sex them.Obviously there are people out there that fall for it,as this thread is proof LOL.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Don't let your guard down around rabbits

Lest ye have the Holy Hand-grenade of Antioch

 

[Sharno]

How was what I typed above NOT serious?It is the TRUTH.It is NOT worth it to MOST reptile breeders to breed Tarantulas.Tarantulas are SMALL CHANGE compared to snakes and monitors.Hence the crappy conditions they are kept in.It is EASIER for the dealer to just have a ton of WC crap shipped in for $2 a spider and sell it for $15+ than to attempt to breed themselves.Breeding is NOT an instant cash source like bringing in boatloads of WC garbage.You can sure as hell count on some villager/native plucking spiders from holes and trees for a dollar a day vs pairing spiders over and over and getting nothing.

No, I meant getting grief regarding the orange spray paint when I asked when my OBT was going to turn orange
Your answer was fine!

 

[spiderengineer]

Lest ye have the Holy Hand-grenade of Antioch

true, but counting to three is a tricking matter.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

First, stop going by abdomen size to sex anything. Immature males and any females will have the same size abdomen until maturity. Mature males can have larger abdomens, and if it is mature, all you have to do is look at the pedipalps. No reason to even look at the abdomen. So throw all that out and do some research on properly sexing Ts.

Second, that is a Haplopelma sp. "Expo". That's the closest ID you are going to get.