Water dishes, Dehydration and DKS

[Erica Danielle]

Happy Sunday (from the US). I’m more so curious about dehydration, water dishes and DKS.

Can a T become dehydrated even with a water dish in its enclosure? Or if there’s a fresh water supply the T will drink if they’re thirsty so dehydration is impossible? Or are some T’s more reliant on the dampened substrate to drink (let’s say fossorials? I haven’t done any research on those guys yet, so I know almost nothing about them. Just giving an example). Or can ample hydration be provided to a properly fed T by their feeders? (NOT that I’d ever not provide a water dish!! Only curious!)

Reading through so many pages on the forums makes me have a million questions. I know DKS is now viewed more as a symptom than a disease/illness like it was before. If I’m remembering correctly some of the causes thought to bring on DKS symptoms (jerky, uncontrollable movements) are dehydration and insect/pesticide/chemical exposure. Is there more than those two circumstances that may result in DKS symptoms? Or do I have this all wrong? Is DKS deadly or can a T be nursed back from DKS symptoms?

Apologies for all my questions... again. I just love learning all I can about these arachnids and you guys are the only source I trust to ask. Thank you all again for answering these questions for me!

 

[Liquifin]

Regarding water dishes for tarantulas, having them is more of a reassurance in case they do get dehydrated whether from molting or whatnot. But water dishes aren't needed for all T.'s as some species come from some desolate places, which those T.'s get get water/moisture from the prey they eat. So technically speaking, their prey offers most of the moisture or water that they need to thrive. Which is why most tarantulas trash their water dishes with substrate.

DKS has a million threads on the boards already, so I can't add much more from what is already stated from previous threads. DKS is not always caused by exposure and sometimes it can happen out of nowhere, which is why it's not considered whatever people consider it as. And yes, I've seen a T. in someones collection get "DKS" (or whatever people want to label it) out of nowhere. Meaning they just woke up to see start showing signs of it.

 

[Erica Danielle]

Regarding water dishes for tarantulas, having them is more of a reassurance in case they do get dehydrated whether from molting or whatnot. But water dishes aren't needed for all T.'s as some species come from some desolate places, which those T.'s get get water/moisture from the prey they eat. So technically speaking, their prey offers most of the moisture or water that they need to thrive. Which is why most tarantulas trash their water dishes with substrate.

DKS has a million threads on the boards already, so I can't add much more from what is already stated from previous threads. DKS is not always caused by exposure and sometimes it can happen out of nowhere, which is why it's not considered whatever people consider it as. And yes, I've seen a T. in someones collection get "DKS" (or whatever people want to label it) out of nowhere. Meaning they just woke up to see start showing signs of it.

Thanks! I’ve read quite a few different DKS threads on here but I will read more. I’ve seen quite a bit too about A. avicularia and that species passing from ‘unknown’ reasons. Although a lot of the comments were pointing towards the enclosure maybe not having enough ventilation for that species. But I was unaware DKS could come from ‘nowhere’ (or at least not knowing exactly where it came from). Is there a specific species that seems to be more prone to “DKS” symptoms or is it across the board?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Can a T become dehydrated even with a water dish in its enclosure? Or if there’s a fresh water supply the T will drink if they’re thirsty so dehydration is impossible? Or are some T’s more reliant on the dampened substrate to drink (let’s say fossorials? I haven’t done any research on those guys yet, so I know almost nothing about them. Just giving an example). Or can ample hydration be provided to a properly fed T by their feeders? (NOT that I’d ever not provide a water dish!! Only curious!)

Yes, tarantulas can become dehydrated even with a water dish. The top rim of a water dish needs to be flush with the surface of the substrate and located away from the side of an enclosure so they can find and locate the water. Tarantulas drink by laying on top of a source of water so if the water dish is too tall, or otherwise hard to lay on top of, they may not be able to drink. There are some instances where a tarantula will perform feats of contortion to get to water, but all effort should be taken to ensure easy access. Overflowing a water dish will also allow a tarantula the choice to drink from whatever is easier for it: substrate or dish.

Water from prey/ feeders isn't enough to hydrate a tarantula because the rate of evaporative water loss could exceed the amount of water in a prey item. Damp substrate serves to keep water in the body so a tarantula won't get thirsty enough to drink. For burrowers in a dry setup, it helps to pour a bit of water in and outside of the burrow leading to the water dish, creating something of a trail to the water, to let the occupant know water is available and where to find it. Obligate burrowers, which hardly ever leave the confines of a burrow, do best if the entire enclosure is periodically watered like a potted plant even if they are a species that come from an arid climate and need dry conditions. Don't ever assume a tarantula will leave the security of a burrow or hide to seek out water. It is in their nature to stay still if climatic conditions become unfavorable.

 

[Erica Danielle]

Yes, tarantulas can become dehydrated even with a water dish. The top rim of a water dish needs to be flush with the surface of the substrate and located away from the side of an enclosure so they can find and locate the water. Tarantulas drink by laying on top of a source of water so if the water dish is too tall, or otherwise hard to lay on top of, they may not be able to drink. There are some instances where a tarantula will perform feats of contortion to get to water, but all effort should be taken to ensure easy access. Overflowing a water dish will also allow a tarantula the choice to drink from whatever is easier for it: substrate or dish.

Water from prey/ feeders isn't enough to hydrate a tarantula because the rate of evaporative water loss could exceed the amount of water in a prey item. Damp substrate serves to keep water in the body so a tarantula won't get thirsty enough to drink. For burrowers in a dry setup, it helps to pour a bit of water in and outside of the burrow leading to the water dish, creating something of a trail to the water, to let the occupant know water is available and where to find it. Obligate burrowers, which hardly ever leave the confines of a burrow, do best if the entire enclosure is periodically watered like a potted plant even if they are a species that come from an arid climate and need dry conditions. Don't ever assume a tarantula will leave the security of a burrow or hide to seek out water. It is in their nature to stay still if climatic conditions become unfavorable.

Thank you so much! I will say I was unaware of the water dish needing to be flush with the substrate level! (Definitely adding to my notes). I did read about the dish needing to be appropriately sized for the T. Is there any recommendations for this? Would a 3” spider need a 3” in diameter dish or a 2” T needing a 3” dish, so on? I feel like I’ve read differing information on “can a tarantula drink from substrate” forums - I could’ve definitely misread. But sometimes it gets a tad confusing when a thread is going and different people are giving different advice/views/opinions. On some threads it’s hard to determine who’s advice should be followed. (If that makes sense).

Thank you again for all the information.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

Thank you so much! I will say I was unaware of the water dish needing to be flush with the substrate level! (Definitely adding to my notes). I did read about the dish needing to be appropriately sized for the T. Is there any recommendations for this? Would a 3” spider need a 3” in diameter dish or a 2” T needing a 3” dish, so on? I feel like I’ve read differing information on “can a tarantula drink from substrate” forums - I could’ve definitely misread. But sometimes it gets a tad confusing when a thread is going and different people are giving different advice/views/opinions. On some threads it’s hard to determine who’s advice should be followed. (If that makes sense).

Thank you again for all the information.

A water dish at a minimum needs to be about the same size of the carapace, but a thirsty tarantula won't hesitate to dive in and get itself wet to drink so the maximum size is limited to how much available space there is in the enclosure. Its not an exact science or anything so a water dish a little smaller or larger than the carapace won't make much of a difference. The idea is to have a water dish large enough for the tarantula to submerge its underside in water without having to preform acrobatics to do so.

For lack of a better way to put it, raising and maintaining adult or large subadults without water dishes and only allowing them to drink from the substrate is an 'advanced' topic. It takes an ability to recognize signs of dehydration and other behavioral cues to let you know you are doing it right. That only comes with long term observation and trial and error. Also, the type of substrate matters when providing water this way. For example, coco fiber soaks up water like a sponge and locks it in so a tarantula won't be able to drink from it as well as say a top soil mix. Top soil doesn't absorb water too quickly so there are puddles of water a tarantula can drink from. There are so many nuances with it that it would be wise to dismiss any vague statements you read that don't elaborate on those nuances.

When researching tarantula care, it really is hard to know who's advice to take. The best thing to do is read as much as possible then jump in and try it yourself and find out what works and what doesn't. There is such a thing as being too careful. Fortunately, tarantulas are able to thrive in a wide variety of conditions, so when it comes to discussions of husbandry everyone in the conversation is usually right. That is assuming the advice is coming from first hand experience. The trick is to find out who is just repeating what they read on the internet and who practices what they preach. Don't hesitate to question anyone's advice or ask if that is what they do themselves. The people you want to pay attention to are the ones who take that extra time to elaborate on their information. If someone can't, or won't, explain why and how something works, you know they don't really know what they are talking about.

 

[Erica Danielle]

A water dish at a minimum needs to be about the same size of the carapace, but a thirsty tarantula won't hesitate to dive in and get itself wet to drink so the maximum size is limited to how much available space there is in the enclosure. Its not an exact science or anything so a water dish a little smaller or larger than the carapace won't make much of a difference. The idea is to have a water dish large enough for the tarantula to submerge its underside in water without having to preform acrobatics to do so.

For lack of a better way to put it, raising and maintaining adult or large subadults without water dishes and only allowing them to drink from the substrate is an 'advanced' topic. It takes an ability to recognize signs of dehydration and other behavioral cues to let you know you are doing it right. That only comes with long term observation and trial and error. Also, the type of substrate matters when providing water this way. For example, coco fiber soaks up water like a sponge and locks it in so a tarantula won't be able to drink from it as well as say a top soil mix. Top soil doesn't absorb water too quickly so there are puddles of water a tarantula can drink from. There are so many nuances with it that it would be wise to dismiss any vague statements you read that don't elaborate on those nuances.

When researching tarantula care, it really is hard to know who's advice to take. The best thing to do is read as much as possible then jump in and try it yourself and find out what works and what doesn't. There is such a thing as being too careful. Fortunately, tarantulas are able to thrive in a wide variety of conditions, so when it comes to discussions of husbandry everyone in the conversation is usually right. That is assuming the advice is coming from first hand experience. The trick is to find out who is just repeating what they read on the internet and who practices what they preach. Don't hesitate to question anyone's advice or ask if that is what they do themselves. The people you want to pay attention to are the ones who take that extra time to elaborate on their information. If someone can't, or won't, explain why and how something works, you know they don't really know what they are talking about.

I can definitely, undoubtedly say I’d probably be more so on the “too careful” side of things. Which, in all honesty, probably can be just as bad as too careless. But I will definitely try to keep myself in check. I was a huge arachnophobe until I started learning about spiders and now I truly admire them. All spiders. That’s absolutely the only thing I read about any more is Tarantulas. Mainly because I don’t want to just “own a tarantula.” When someone asks me a question about my tarantula, I want to be able to explain and give a very informed answer. And eventually have a huge collection.

I don’t know if members here are told enough but those lengthy, informative comments/threads about mold, mites, ventilation, enclosure types, feeders, etc has been an absolute life saver for me as a newbie. I would had undoubtedly killed a tarantula had I just read some of the articles on Google and bought instantly.

 

[Poonjab]

I can definitely, undoubtedly say I’d probably be more so on the “too careful” side of things. Which, in all honesty, probably can be just as bad as too careless. But I will definitely try to keep myself in check. I was a huge arachnophobe until I started learning about spiders and now I truly admire them. All spiders. That’s absolutely the only thing I read about any more is Tarantulas. Mainly because I don’t want to just “own a tarantula.” When someone asks me a question about my tarantula, I want to be able to explain and give a very informed answer. And eventually have a huge collection.

I don’t know if members here are told enough but those lengthy, informative comments/threads about mold, mites, ventilation, enclosure types, feeders, etc has been an absolute life saver for me as a newbie. I would had undoubtedly killed a tarantula had I just read some of the articles on Google and bought instantly.

Would you hurry up and buy a tarantula already. It’s time!! haha

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Can a T become dehydrated even with a water dish in its enclosure?

Yes, I've not experienced it myself but people claim to have Avics that refuse to come down to drink from their dishes. I believe there have also been issues with P. muticus specimens that are kept bone dry not leaving their burrows to drink.

Reading through so many pages on the forums makes me have a million questions. I know DKS is now viewed more as a symptom than a disease/illness like it was before. If I’m remembering correctly some of the causes thought to bring on DKS symptoms (jerky, uncontrollable movements) are dehydration and insect/pesticide/chemical exposure. Is there more than those two circumstances that may result in DKS symptoms? Or do I have this all wrong? Is DKS deadly or can a T be nursed back from DKS symptoms?

DKS is a misnomer, all the "symptoms" of DKS fall under dyskinesia which is itself a symptom of an underlying problem, I recently made a thread that goes over some of the known causes and treatments.

Dyskinesia in tarantulas

I've kinda toyed with the idea of making this thread for a while as I've gotten sick of typing the same things out every time someone has a tarantula that shows the slightest hint of jerky movements so I thought I'd try to consolidate everything into a single thread that I/others can just...

arachnoboards.com

 

[Jesse607]

As others eluded to, there are certainly species and individual spiders that are likely not going to search for and/or find a water dish and therefore dehydrate at the bottom of their dry burrow or in their web shelter. Pelinobius muticus are notorious for this, and this is also why you see so many "why did my Cobalt Blue die?" posts. Many burrowers hardly come out of their burrow. Some people are afraid to add water to their Ts burrow, because they think it stresses them, or that they"ll drown. Sure they may run out the moment it gets flooded, but they typically go back in within moments and drink up, modify burrow and groom.

Years ago everyone would tell you to keep your P. muticus dry with a water dish and give lots of substrate and be prepared for a T that doesn't grow or do anything, and that is exactly what I experienced and therefore traded away my first ones. They would just dig to the bottom, plug burrow and stay put for eons. A couple of years ago I got a juvenile female as a rescue. I keep her similar to my Hysterocrates (moist substrate) and she molted 3 times in a year and a half (now adult) and is almost always digging and hanging out at the entrance of her burrow. She drinks water when I water the substrate, I gave up on her water dish as she would bury it or move it to the corner where she puts her boluses within 24 hours.

 

[Vanessa]

I provide everyone with a water dish - two for my arboreal species, because I elevate one to where they will moult. I also have areas where I will place a pile of Sphagnum moss for some of the species who appreciate a damp area. That way, I can soak down the moss and avoid mould forming in the substrate below. Unfortunately, it is sometimes difficult to maintain with individuals who like to move things around. I pour water into the corners so the bottom layer of substrate is moist, while keeping the top dry.
I live in an area with extremely low humidity in the winters and extremely high humidity in the summers. It makes doing the same thing all year long impossible. You have to factor that in as well. I am filling some water dishes every two days at this time of year, when those same dishes would barely evaporate in a week in July. I will never, ever, rely on misting alone. I believe that all animals should have access to fresh water 24/7 and not have to wait until I mist and then hurry up to drink before it evaporates.
If you live in an area that experiences those fluctuations, there are some things you can do to cut down on evaporation. Pour water into the soil, do the moss thing around the water dish and soak it when you fill the dish, use deep dishes with less surface area instead of large and shallow dishes, you can stack your enclosures with the moisture loving species on the bottom, you can block off/tape up any holes in the lids of the enclosures, and you can invest in a humidifier for that room. And, if you are new to the moisture loving species, perhaps put off getting one until the spring so you are not immediately dealing with them drying up so quickly.

 

[Erica Danielle]

Yes, I've not experienced it myself but people claim to have Avics that refuse to come down to drink from their dishes. I believe there have also been issues with P. muticus specimens that are kept bone dry not leaving their burrows to drink.



DKS is a misnomer, all the "symptoms" of DKS fall under dyskinesia which is itself a symptom of an underlying problem, I recently made a thread that goes over some of the known causes and treatments.

Dyskinesia in tarantulas

I've kinda toyed with the idea of making this thread for a while as I've gotten sick of typing the same things out every time someone has a tarantula that shows the slightest hint of jerky movements so I thought I'd try to consolidate everything into a single thread that I/others can just...

arachnoboards.com

Ahhh, yes I do remember reading that thread now! I’ve seen somewhere else (again, not that I’d EVER do anything “questionable” without some advice from you guys) about heat treatment for T’s showing DKS symptoms. But that was when I first started doing research from “questionable” sources, so I’ve had to kind of push all that information out of my mind, so to speak. Ehhh, I probably want to know too much just starting out but in all honesty, I just really enjoy talking and reading about tarantulas. It’s about all I read anymore lol.

I provide everyone with a water dish - two for my arboreal species, because I elevate one to where they will moult. I also have areas where I will place a pile of Sphagnum moss for some of the species who appreciate a damp area. That way, I can soak down the moss and avoid mould forming in the substrate below. Unfortunately, it is sometimes difficult to maintain with individuals who like to move things around. I pour water into the corners so the bottom layer of substrate is moist, while keeping the top dry.
I live in an area with extremely low humidity in the winters and extremely high humidity in the summers. It makes doing the same thing all year long impossible. You have to factor that in as well. I am filling some water dishes every two days at this time of year, when those same dishes would barely evaporate in a week in July. I will never, ever, rely on misting alone. I believe that all animals should have access to fresh water 24/7 and not have to wait until I mist and then hurry up to drink before it evaporates.
If you live in an area that experiences those fluctuations, there are some things you can do to cut down on evaporation. Pour water into the soil, do the moss thing around the water dish and soak it when you fill the dish, use deep dishes with less surface area instead of large and shallow dishes, you can stack your enclosures with the moisture loving species on the bottom, you can block off/tape up any holes in the lids of the enclosures, and you can invest in a humidifier for that room. And, if you are new to the moisture loving species, perhaps put off getting one until the spring so you are not immediately dealing with them drying up so quickly.

I agree with you 100%! I would definitely, definitely always provide fresh water. I also really love your idea of using sphagnum moss around the water dish, that’s brilliant. But I will definitely take all of this into consideration! And thank you for all the information and advice! It’s greatly appreciated.

I’m going with a T. albo as my first. I’ve heard Tom speak of the ladder system where some keepers like to start off with a slower moving, docile NW terrestrial as their first and then move on to maybe a faster moving NW terrestrial, then maybe a NW arboreal, then a faster moving NW arboreal. Anyways, kind of taking small steps in the NE category, then when you feel comfortable move on to OW. I definitely want to take my time, no rush. But I definitely want a huge collection some day (like all the species. Lol. But maybe a room devoted to JUST Tarantulas and some true spiders).