Want to get a dog (in the future, just want to ask some questions first)

[Bree24]

Yeah raw food diet is expensive! The most true to nature food though and you know it's not processed crap (which a lot of dog food is). The stuff that doesn't make it into sausages goes into dog food.



Never heard of this before. Not saying you're wrong or anything I just find it an interesting idea. I've always been told that you should stick to one brand otherwise it will upset the dogs stomach which I have always found is true with mine. Maybe that's why your dog needs a good stomach and mine has had bowel issues since a pup.

Yeah, I’m not sure why that is with dogs and dry kibble. A dry diet must be hard on the digestive system, especially considering they’re what they’d naturally eat. That’s definitely why I said only if they have a good stomach. With my dog, it doesn’t seem to matter what brand I give her, she digests it all the same. It is true, though, what I said about some brands overloading on specific nutrients. It’s kind of like going to the bread section and trying to decide between 9-grain, whole wheat, white, quinoa, etc.

 

[Teal]

I wish I had found this thread sooner! Sorry for the super long post and all the quotes!

I'm thinking completely opposite to @Ashlynn Rose. I wouldn't ever get a pure bred dog anymore. Show bred dogs are the absolutely worst. A lot of breeds have inbred health problems, including poodles. I love poodles and had one myself only to have it go blind at an early age because of inbred retina atrophy. Mixed breeds, on the other hand, do not have the health problems of the parent breeds because most of these inbred health problems are recessive genes, meaning they need to come from both parents to show up.

Poodles moreover are a bad choice for many outdoor activities since their fur isn't functional. They will soak through in heavy rain and that plus a bit of cold/wind can mean pneumonia for them. Their disfunctional fur will also knot and collect all the dirt in a wide range and needs constant attention. They are easily trainable, though. If anything get a poodle mix that has not inherited the fur structure from it's poodle parent.

Border collies are great dogs and easily trainable but they need a lot of attention and exercise, otherwise they'll become neurotic or 'hyper'. If you have the time there is hardly a better dog for outdoor activities.

Personally, from all you are saying I'd go with Lab, too. Doesn't need to be a black one, they come in different colors. As a breed they are easy going, friendly, moderately easy trained dogs that will appreciate outdoor activity but can be left alone for a day. Lab mixes are often just as good.

Boxers are not bad for what you want, too. They are a little more sensitive than most Labs, but otherwise just as suitable. Get one with a slightly longer snout, though.

I would stay away from any watch dog breeds, though, since you don't want a dog with a strong instinct to protect.

You are absolutely wrong that mixed breeds don't have the genetic health issues of the breeds they come from. This is evident in sport mixes from dogs who weren't health tested, in random mixed breed dogs adopted from shelters/rescues who are health tested, etc. Many, many mixed breed dogs have hip dysplasia, collie mixes are at risk for carrying MDR1, etc etc. Some issues ARE recessive, yes - so you can have clear, carrier, and affected dogs. But many issues are passed on directly from a single parent.

I'd recommend a labrador. High energy, super smart loyal dogs. Smart dogs needs more stimulation though so could be a problem if you're away a lot during the day. I think most breeds left on their own for long enough will get bored and become destructive.

I always notice that dogs that bark a lot are not being walked or exercised well. Not a problem for you as you walk everyday already. Probably best to split your walks into two though, morning and evening.

Most aggressive dogs are that way because of their owner, so good training and discipline will ensure a well behaved dog. However, with my own dog I've found that he takes a dislike to specific dogs and they take the same disliking to him too. No idea why just a dog thing maybe?

I'd recommend crate training your dog. I never did with mine and regret it. It may seem cruel at first but they come to recognise it as a safe space. My dog gets nervous at night and sprays a lot and think crate training would have helped with this.

Also socialising your dog does it so much good! Teach it to play with other dogs early and you'll have fewer problems later on.

And DO NOT trust anyone that says their dog is friendly... My dog has been attacked so many times but "friendly" dogs he is actually wary of all dogs now.

I am not sure why people get confused by their dog not liking certain other dogs. Training and socializing will help your dog not be worried about the world, but they aren't going to change your dog's genetic temperament. Many dogs simply do not like other dogs as they mature.

Also, people have an incredibly wrong view on what "socializing" a dog means. It does NOT mean taking your dog to a dog park/play group and jhst letting them loose. Socializing means training your dog to ignore other dogs in public and behave around them. Anywhere that allows strange off leash dogs to run together is a disaster waiting to happen.

"It's all in how they are raised" or any variation of that phrase is FALSE. Training and environment can modify a dog's reaction, but they will not change a dog's genetics.

Crate training is really important for many reasons. It gives the dog their own safe space, it teaches them to be comfortable with confinement, etc. Feeding/giving special treats or toys in a crate helps with the initial adjustment period.

Meant to respond to this sooner, but I did some more research and I think I'll be going with a lab if I do get a dog. However, after looking into some breeders they're asking for $1,800-2,500 for a puppy. I know I shouldn't be cheap when getting a dog, but I was reading articles saying that even if they do come from a breeder, you shouldn't be paying more than $800-1,200. Not being cheap when I say this, but if a breeder is asking for anything more than that should I look elsewhere?

It depends on what health testing and titling the parents have. 1,800$-2,500$ is typical for a showbred dog... which might be better for you, as their natural instincts and energy have largely been bred away from in favour of a calmer/more low key dog.

A few things:

1. Don’t buy from a breeder. There are too many dogs alive already that need a home.

2. Try to adopt from a private rescue. They will work with you to find the perfect dog and you can do a foster-to-adopt program to make absolutely sure.

3. Don’t get a puppy. I know everyone loves puppies, but they are a lot of work and a bad idea for first time owners.

4. Labrador or golden retriever are the best choices for first time owners, but as I said, a rescue will find you a good fit regardless of breed. I would HIGHLY suggest avoiding any breeds with high prey drive or working class animals. No bull breeds, collies, or shepherds. They require a lot of experience to train them properly.

5. Buy and use a portable dog crate. Even if you don’t use it often, it’s essential for the mental health of a dog, especially if you work long hours, to have a place that’s made specifically for staying safe and calm.

1. Buying from a reputable breeder is a perfectly fine option. It is not always feasible to find what you're looking for from a shelter/rescue. Yes, there are a lot of dogs looking for homes... but not every dog is created equal. Finding the RIGHT dog is the important part, not where it comes from.

3. An older puppy/adult dog IS a great recommendation for a first time dog owner. They are more of a "What you see is what you get" than a puppy... temperament and size wise. I also personally hate the puppy raising stage, but I deal with it to have the dogs that are right for me.

5. Crates keep dogs safe when home alone and I highly recommend them. Leaving a dog loose in the house presents many hazards - they could get into something toxic, there could be a break in and the dog gets loose, if there is a fire the dog is easily found and moved (without risking the rescuer if the dog is freaked out, because they can drag/carry the whole crate), etc etc. Also, if you ever end up with multiple dogs, it is never a good idea to leave them loose together... in addition to the above possibilities, having multiple dogs loose multiplies the possibility of them getting into hazardous materials and also adds in the possibility of a fight.

Oh, come on. I know many people use crates, but essential for the mental health??? I've earned money training dogs for years while I was studying, my friend works with 'difficult' dogs that get transfered to her by vets, and we've both never used a crate and never will. Are you saying all our dogs have/had mental health problems? Hardly.

I'm against using a crate - ever. I think it's cruel.

Crates CAN be cruel is misused, just like most anything else. But crate training IS what I would consider essential to the mental health of a dog. Learning to be comfortable with confinement is a huge asset and incredibly useful in case of an emergency - a vet stay or evacuatinf a natural disaster are just two examples of when being comfortable with confinement saves the dog added stress in an already stressful situation. I have seen dogs severely injure themselves trying to escape crates because they were never trained to be comfortable in them... I don't understand why someone would deny their dog that useful training.

Thanks for the replies guys! I'll def check out local shelters and see if there's a lab that fits what I'm looking for/meshes well with me.

Also, kind of random, but do any of you guys feed a raw diet to your dogs? I know @basin79 you sometimes feed raw treats according to your videos. I generally heard that this is 'more healthy' than most dog food?

I am a fan of raw diets, as you'll see in the thread that was linked for you to read. We raise our own meat animals and source meat raised locally for species we don't have. If you can do it, awesome. If not, a high quality kibble is just fine. You can also do part raw/part kibble. Or, like we do with my dogs, feed everything... they get raw at home, kibble when we travel for competitions, and table scraps anytime/anywhere.

Never heard of this before. Not saying you're wrong or anything I just find it an interesting idea. I've always been told that you should stick to one brand otherwise it will upset the dogs stomach which I have always found is true with mine. Maybe that's why your dog needs a good stomach and mine has had bowel issues since a pup.

As I said in my previous post but that I do like to reiterate, we feed a HUGE variety of food. We change kibbles constantly, raw meat proteins constantly, in addition to feeding leftovers from our own food (of course, nothing toxic to them). Some dogs do have sensitive systems... but I have found that feeding a variety of foods is incredibly helpful in our situation... we travel a lot, and if we run out of dog food on the road we can literally feed them anything (no having to worry about finding a store that carries a certain brand). We also live in a high fire danger area, so if our dogs ever ended up in an evacuation center they wouldn't be further upset by a sudden change in food.

 

[boina]

Crates keep dogs safe when home alone and I highly recommend them. Leaving a dog loose in the house presents many hazards - they could get into something toxic, there could be a break in and the dog gets loose, if there is a fire the dog is easily found and moved (without risking the rescuer if the dog is freaked out, because they can drag/carry the whole crate), etc etc. Also, if you ever end up with multiple dogs, it is never a good idea to leave them loose together... in addition to the above possibilities, having multiple dogs loose multiplies the possibility of them getting into hazardous materials and also adds in the possibility of a fight.

That's nonsense. Crates severly restrict the dogs possibility to move. So, while you are not home your dog is forced to stay in that small thing?? That's cruel. My dogs and my friends dogs don't get into anything toxic. My friend has a pack of 5 dogs and they live as a pack and are always together. They don't get into anything, period. They don't take food, not even meat left out on the counter, so why would they take anything toxic? If there's a break in I want my dog to defend himself and be able to get away - because the intruder may very well harm my dog (Very strict gun laws in Germany, so the dog will not be shot by the intruder).

Don't you ever really socialize your dog?? What you describe as socialization has nothing to do with that word, it's a pretty restrictive training. In interaction with other dogs they learn how others react. An established pack has an alpha dog that will suppress fights amongst the pack. My friends pack is extremely good at avoiding fights, internal and with others. They don't do anything of the things you describe. I just think your dogs are not well socialized if you are so afraid of just leaving them alone together and they are insecure and confused if you have to fear they get into something toxic.

If you want to crate train your dogs, fine. Saying it is necessary for mental health is ridiculous. Crates have become popular during the last 20 years. You want to tell me that before all dogs had mental health problems? Oh, obviously you do, since you are telling me the relaxed, easy going and confident dogs of my friend who don't fight or 'get into things' are mentally ill because they are not crate trained. Stop being so dogmatic.

Oh, and btw, I rescued a dog in Philadelphia, out of a shelter, out of a crate. She stayed absolutely terrified of crates all of her life. My friends dogs will stay in a crate when told to do so, because they trust her. My 'crate trained' Philadelphia dog would panic if she so much as saw a crate.

In my opinion crates are just a crutch for people who can't manage their dogs otherwise.

Edit: I found a good article that states a lot of the things I have to say about crates: http://thepetshow.com/the-case-against-crate-training/ and another one:
https://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/why-i-dont-believe-in-crate-training

 

[Crone Returns]

Meant to respond to this sooner, but I did some more research and I think I'll be going with a lab if I do get a dog. However, after looking into some breeders they're asking for $1,800-2,500 for a puppy. I know I shouldn't be cheap when getting a dog, but I was reading articles saying that even if they do come from a breeder, you shouldn't be paying more than $800-1,200. Not being cheap when I say this, but if a breeder is asking for anything more than that should I look elsewhere?

Found my girlie, Shiloh at animal control. Found Hailey last yr a couple of months after Shiloh died. Same shelter. Labs need socialization, and if you get a pup, get TONS of chew toys and tennis balls.

 

[Bree24]

That's nonsense. Crates severly restrict the dogs possibility to move. So, while you are not home your dog is forced to stay in that small thing?? That's cruel. My dogs and my friends dogs don't get into anything toxic. My friend has a pack of 5 dogs and they live as a pack and are always together. They don't get into anything, period. They don't take food, not even meat left out on the counter, so why would they take anything toxic? If there's a break in I want my dog to defend himself and be able to get away - because the intruder may very well harm my dog (Very strict gun laws in Germany, so the dog will not be shot by the intruder).

Don't you ever really socialize your dog?? What you describe as socialization has nothing to do with that word, it's a pretty restrictive training. In interaction with other dogs they learn how others react. An established pack has an alpha dog that will suppress fights amongst the pack. My friends pack is extremely good at avoiding fights, internal and with others. They don't do anything of the things you describe. I just think your dogs are not well socialized if you are so afraid of just leaving them alone together and they are insecure and confused if you have to fear they get into something toxic.

If you want to crate train your dogs, fine. Saying it is necessary for mental health is ridiculous. Crates have become popular during the last 20 years. You want to tell me that before all dogs had mental health problems? Oh, obviously you do, since you are telling me the relaxed, easy going and confident dogs of my friend who don't fight or 'get into things' are mentally ill because they are not crate trained. Stop being so dogmatic.

Oh, and btw, I rescued a dog in Philadelphia, out of a shelter, out of a crate. She stayed absolutely terrified of crates all of her life. My friends dogs will stay in a crate when told to do so, because they trust her. My 'crate trained' Philadelphia dog would panic if she so much as saw a crate.

In my opinion crates are just a crutch for people who can't manage their dogs otherwise.

Edit: I found a good article that states a lot of the things I have to say about crates: http://thepetshow.com/the-case-against-crate-training/ and another one:
https://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/why-i-dont-believe-in-crate-training

Biased is the person who speaks in double standards.

 

[Teal]

That's nonsense. Crates severly restrict the dogs possibility to move. So, while you are not home your dog is forced to stay in that small thing?? That's cruel. My dogs and my friends dogs don't get into anything toxic. My friend has a pack of 5 dogs and they live as a pack and are always together. They don't get into anything, period. They don't take food, not even meat left out on the counter, so why would they take anything toxic? If there's a break in I want my dog to defend himself and be able to get away - because the intruder may very well harm my dog (Very strict gun laws in Germany, so the dog will not be shot by the intruder).

Don't you ever really socialize your dog?? What you describe as socialization has nothing to do with that word, it's a pretty restrictive training. In interaction with other dogs they learn how others react. An established pack has an alpha dog that will suppress fights amongst the pack. My friends pack is extremely good at avoiding fights, internal and with others. They don't do anything of the things you describe. I just think your dogs are not well socialized if you are so afraid of just leaving them alone together and they are insecure and confused if you have to fear they get into something toxic.

If you want to crate train your dogs, fine. Saying it is necessary for mental health is ridiculous. Crates have become popular during the last 20 years. You want to tell me that before all dogs had mental health problems? Oh, obviously you do, since you are telling me the relaxed, easy going and confident dogs of my friend who don't fight or 'get into things' are mentally ill because they are not crate trained. Stop being so dogmatic.

Oh, and btw, I rescued a dog in Philadelphia, out of a shelter, out of a crate. She stayed absolutely terrified of crates all of her life. My friends dogs will stay in a crate when told to do so, because they trust her. My 'crate trained' Philadelphia dog would panic if she so much as saw a crate.

In my opinion crates are just a crutch for people who can't manage their dogs otherwise.

Edit: I found a good article that states a lot of the things I have to say about crates: http://thepetshow.com/the-case-against-crate-training/ and another one:
https://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/why-i-dont-believe-in-crate-training

Some of my dogs are crated, some are in outdoor kennels, and some are on chain spots when I am not home... it depends n their temperament and needs. But ALL of my dogs ARE crate trained. They have to be, because they must be crated at competitions when it isn't their turn as well (as regulated by the governing competition body). We compete in almost a dozen sports... my dogs aren't pets stuck at home.

That's great your friend's "pack of dogs" haven't had any issues... I have terriers and high drive working dogs - They fight for fun if you give them the chance. It's called genetics, and in order to keep my dogs safe they must be heavily managed and contained.

Are my dogs socialized? Highly. Between myself and my close dog sport competitor friends, we have literally dozens of dogs and we run a lot of them together. My terriers enjoy it as youngsters, until they start to mature and no longer desire "doggie friends."

If you think crates are a crutch for people who can't manage their dogs otherwise, as you said, then you haven't dealt with the caliber of drive and animal/dog aggression found in the types of dogs I have. Maybe you are used to sedate, animal friendly pet dogs. The dog you rescued who "remained terrified" of crates sounds like she was an unstable mess... I do not tolerate dogs who are weak-temperamented like that.

 

[boina]

The dog you rescued who "remained terrified" of crates sounds like she was an unstable mess... I do not tolerate dogs who are weak-temperamented like that.

That's among the most ignorant things to say I've ever heard. So a dog who has been abused should be put down? A dog who doesn't tolerate crates should be put down? What the hell is 'weak temperamented'?

Other than that you can imagine disagree with everything you just said here - oh and I've a university degree in animal behaviour (I even posted a copy on this boards somewhere to prove this claim) and I've worked with wolves for 3 years, meaning I know what I'm talking about and I'm used to every kind of dog. My friends dogs are high energy working dogs - herding and herd protection dogs. I've worked with dogs who were thought to be 'too dangerous' and who were listed to be put down (in Germany you need a judge to sentence a healthy dog to death, you can't just go and have it put down. And I kind of think the way you keep your dogs may not be compatible with German law either, but of course I can't be sure about that. Spot chaining for one thing is forbidden.) And I really think the way you keep dogs is not typical and not what your average dog owner is looking for.

I made my point and I think it's useless to take this any further. I'm not going to convince you of anything and you are not going to convince me. We've provided very different points of view and the next one to come along can decide for him/herself, as they will do anyway.

Oh, I just remembered: There's one thing I agree with you - feeding a varied diet that includes raw meat - good for the immune system

@Bree24 - did you bother to read the links I provided? They aren't that long.

 

[Teal]

"Weak temperamented" is a dog who becomes permanently traumatized by normal things - confinement, nail trims, etc. Temperament testing is designed to see how a dog recovers from scary, unfamiliar things - A dog can startle/spook, but then needs to get over it shortly. There is nothing about being put in a crate that physically hurts a dog... so what the heck is traumatizing about it? The same goes for loud sounds like fireworks or gun shots.

Germany and othet countries over there have banned crates, kennels, chaining, ear cropping, tail docking, etc... I'm glad I don't live there. I keep my dogs SAFE - that is the important part. Herding breeds and LGD breeds are generally dog and animal friendly... they are a different type of energy than terriers who are bred to kill varmints and fight other dogs. The way I keep my dogs is entirely typical for the type of dogs they are... I learned proper management from other handlers. And you are correct - The way I keep my dogd and the type of dogs I keep are NOT for the average pet owner at all.

Anyways, I agree that we have presented different sides to an issue we shall never agree on... but the OP has information to base their own opinion on.

 

[Bree24]

"Weak temperamented" is a dog who becomes permanently traumatized by normal things - confinement, nail trims, etc. Temperament testing is designed to see how a dog recovers from scary, unfamiliar things - A dog can startle/spook, but then needs to get over it shortly. There is nothing about being put in a crate that physically hurts a dog... so what the heck is traumatizing about it? The same goes for loud sounds like fireworks or gun shots.

Germany and othet countries over there have banned crates, kennels, chaining, ear cropping, tail docking, etc... I'm glad I don't live there. I keep my dogs SAFE - that is the important part. Herding breeds and LGD breeds are generally dog and animal friendly... they are a different type of energy than terriers who are bred to kill varmints and fight other dogs. The way I keep my dogs is entirely typical for the type of dogs they are... I learned proper management from other handlers. And you are correct - The way I keep my dogd and the type of dogs I keep are NOT for the average pet owner at all.

Anyways, I agree that we have presented different sides to an issue we shall never agree on... but the OP has information to base their own opinion on.

I would guess that these “crate traumatized” dogs are ones that weren’t properly introduced. I’d imagine it’s something similar to throwing a dog into a bathtub full of water and then wondering why the dog is afraid of the bathroom lol It’s not the crate but the owner that’s the problem.

IMO, it should be mandatory to take an animal behaviour/dog training course before a person is allowed to own a dog.

 

[Teal]

I would guess that these “crate traumatized” dogs are ones that weren’t properly introduced. I’d imagine it’s something similar to throwing a dog into a bathtub full of water and then wondering why the dog is afraid of the bathroom lol It’s not the crate but the owner that’s the problem.

IMO, it should be mandatory to take an animal behaviour/dog training course before a person is allowed to own a dog.

As a trainer and behaviourist, I have dealt with a ton of dogs not properly introduced to things... like I said, stable temeramented dogs recover from new/scary situations that startle/scare them. Unstable dogs become fearful of those things.

Personally, I have dogs who have been actually physically injured from new things without becoming fearful of them because they have not only stable but hard temperaments that are not easily phased. Heck, my dogs injure themselves while playing/training because they go 110% and don't stop lol They have also been put into mentally tough situations... as for your bathtub example, I have tossed dogs into tubs of water/lakes/creeks/etc when needed (a dog overheating that needs to cool off now, a dog who shows hesitancy about getting into the water, etc)... two responses are allowed in my dogs - 1. "Well that was unpleasant, but oh well" and 2. "Who knew water was so awesome?!"

But, I expect A LOT from my dogs when it comes to temperament... way more than average pet owners. Though it definitely bothers me that people make excuses for dogs with poor temperaments... "They must have been abused" or "They just weren't socialized" are two very commonly overused false statements tossed around for dogs who are just plain genetically fearful/shy/unstable. I have a client I have been training with for 7 years... she got her dog as a 9 week old puppy from a reputable rescue who saved the entire litter from euthanasia. At first, he was your typical happy puppy. But as he started getting older, he began exhibiting fearful reactions to every day events and items. She was taking him to training classes, letting him play in puppy groups, training privately with me, etc - doing all the right things to raise a well adjusted, well socialized dogs. His genetics just weren't capable of it. People constantly ask if he was abused before she got him because he is shy and fearful, and even argue with her when she says no. Then when she explains she has had him since he was a puppy, these people tell her she must have done something wrong in raising him. It baffles me that humans blatantly ignore genetics so adamently...

 

[MintyWood826]

I'm tempted to compare "weak" dog temperament to human mental illness now...

 

[boina]

Ok, about temperament: I strongly dislike terrier breeds. They are bred to do their thing, come hell or high water - I actually do agree with @Teal on that. Yes, I've seen hunting terriers kill themselves by taking on wild boar - not a good idea. They don't show fear, though, and they are very single minded once they decided to take something on. The thing is: I don't like that trait at all and I wouldn't call it strong. Single minded and stubborn, yes, but strong? Really...

You know why the worst biting attacks are from terrier breeds ('Pitt bulls')? Because those breeds don't let up once they decided to attack. A shepherd may bite you once - a terrier will not stop before you are down. That's not a very pleasant trait in my book.

I much prefer the more impressionable breeds (which is actually every other breed). They are much easier to train and most importantly: they connect much deeper with their human. It isn't all about obedience with them but about connection. I want a companion dog, and for that purpose a terrier is about the last breed I'd chose.

Yes, genetics does play a role, but it's most certainly not as big as you make it out to be. Putting everything on genetics is just another excuse for poor handling. And I'd bet you whatever you want I'd find the reason for this dog's fearfulness in the handling it's received by its owner within half an hour. I usually do. Abuse very often has nothing to do with creating an overly fearful dog. Misunderstanding the dogs signals has. But abuse can create fears that are hard to overcome in those impressionable breeds. To equate impressionable with weak is just ridiculous.

@MintyWood826 - that's like calling everyone but the loudest, most stubborn (and obnoxious) individual "mentally ill".

 

[Luka98]

I'm planning to get a dog next year or in the next few years, but I've never had that much experience with them. What breed of dog would you recommend for me based on this criteria:

-I'm a somewhat active person, I like to walk for at least five miles a day (is this too little for some dogs?)
-I'd really like a dog that could keep up with me while hiking/backpacking/etc.
-A breed that's a bit 'easier' to train as I'm not experienced with dogs in general and whenever I go out of town for extended periods, it'll be staying with my parents who have even less experience
-A 'quieter' breed, I know this largely depends on the individual, but if there's a breed that's quieter in general that would be great
-I tend to be gone for a decent period of time during the day, a dog that could stay by itself for a while would be great. I'd still be there in the morning/night and will walk them daily as mentioned above.
-Must be friendly and not defensive/aggressive. I have family members who have had horrible experiences with dogs and I want to change their mind with whatever dog I do end up getting.

I'm also highly considering a dog from the shelter as I'd much rather adopt than buy one from a breeder, but my only concern is that I wouldn't know the background of the dog (if it is aggressive/defensive, health problems, etc.).

Based on this, what kind of dog would you recommend me? Also, if all of this sounds improbable, I don't mind holding off until I get more experience as I want to be able to take care of this dog to the best of my ability and make it a part of my family.

Hey this is kinda late but definitely look into a german shepherd i've had mine for about 9 years and he's an old guy but an amazing dog. They LOVE working and if you take them hiking they'll be super thankful and happy, they are extremely inteligent and if you train them right they will be your greatest companion. My dad and i used to hike mountains with Bek (our german shep) off the leash when he was a younger doggo and he loved it and we never had the need to "babysit" him while he's free, he'd just be smart enough to follow us and watch what paths we are taking. The only downside with them is that they are super smart so they get bored with sitting around so if you want a dog that isn't active this is not the dog for you but it seems otherwise. They are just beautiful smart inquisitive wonders and very loving, they are super compationate to the members of their family and love the attention of people they trust, when i was younger Bek would hop onto my bed (only when i let him) and id just use him as a pillow. Just make sure you don't overfeed them as they get obese pretty easy in my experience (specially if you want to castrate your dog) and they'll be good.

Sorry for the double post the computer freaked out

 

[Luka98]

I'm planning to get a dog next year or in the next few years, but I've never had that much experience with them. What breed of dog would you recommend for me based on this criteria:

-I'm a somewhat active person, I like to walk for at least five miles a day (is this too little for some dogs?)
-I'd really like a dog that could keep up with me while hiking/backpacking/etc.
-A breed that's a bit 'easier' to train as I'm not experienced with dogs in general and whenever I go out of town for extended periods, it'll be staying with my parents who have even less experience
-A 'quieter' breed, I know this largely depends on the individual, but if there's a breed that's quieter in general that would be great
-I tend to be gone for a decent period of time during the day, a dog that could stay by itself for a while would be great. I'd still be there in the morning/night and will walk them daily as mentioned above.
-Must be friendly and not defensive/aggressive. I have family members who have had horrible experiences with dogs and I want to change their mind with whatever dog I do end up getting.

I'm also highly considering a dog from the shelter as I'd much rather adopt than buy one from a breeder, but my only concern is that I wouldn't know the background of the dog (if it is aggressive/defensive, health problems, etc.).

Based on this, what kind of dog would you recommend me? Also, if all of this sounds improbable, I don't mind holding off until I get more experience as I want to be able to take care of this dog to the best of my ability and make it a part of my family.

Hey this is kinda late but definitely look into a german shepherd i've had mine for about 9 years and he's an old guy but an amazing dog. They LOVE working and if you take them hiking they'll be super thankful and happy, they are extremely inteligent and if you train them right they will be your greatest companion. My dad and i used to hike mountains with Bek (our german shep) off the leash when he was a younger doggo and he loved it and we never had the need to "babysit" him while he's free, he'd just be smart enough to follow us and watch what paths we are taking. The only downside with them is that they are super smart so they get bored with sitting around so if you want a dog that isn't active this is not the dog for you but it seems otherwise. They are just beautiful smart inquisitive wonders and very loving, they are super compationate to the members of their family and love the attention of people they trust, when i was younger Bek would hop onto my bed (only when i let him) and id just use him as a pillow. Just make sure you don't overfeed them as they get obese pretty easy in my experience (specially if you want to castrate your dog) and they'll be good.

 

[Bree24]

Hey this is kinda late but definitely look into a german shepherd i've had mine for about 9 years and he's an old guy but an amazing dog. They LOVE working and if you take them hiking they'll be super thankful and happy, they are extremely inteligent and if you train them right they will be your greatest companion. My dad and i used to hike mountains with Bek (our german shep) off the leash when he was a younger doggo and he loved it and we never had the need to "babysit" him while he's free, he'd just be smart enough to follow us and watch what paths we are taking. The only downside with them is that they are super smart so they get bored with sitting around so if you want a dog that isn't active this is not the dog for you but it seems otherwise. They are just beautiful smart inquisitive wonders and very loving, they are super compationate to the members of their family and love the attention of people they trust, when i was younger Bek would hop onto my bed (only when i let him) and id just use him as a pillow. Just make sure you don't overfeed them as they get obese pretty easy in my experience (specially if you want to castrate your dog) and they'll be good.

Sorry for the double post the computer freaked out

I wouldn’t suggest German shepherd as a first time dog. They are very willful and prone to resource hording. Not that it can’t be done, but this breed is better suited to an individual who can spot early warning signs of aggressive behaviour.

 

[Luka98]

I wouldn’t suggest German shepherd as a first time dog. They are very willful and prone to resource hording. Not that it can’t be done, but this breed is better suited to an individual who can spot early warning signs of aggressive behaviour.

It's more a matter of commitment imo they can be nasty only if you neglect them and not teach them to socialize as pups just as any dogs. Yeah the intelligent breeds are just a bit more of a handful but same ballpark as any other dog plus they're much more rewarding to keep.

 

[boina]

They are very willful

I really don't know what kind of dogs you meet... I haven't met a wilful German Shepherd in my life. My grandfather used to breed them and a German Shepherd was my very first dog. They are very easy to train and eager to please and they bond very closely with their human. I actually agree with @Luka98 on pretty much everything. But they do need to be trained and excercised, they are bred as working dogs and are not meant to spend most of their life in a crate... they can get aggressive if they don't get a chance to bond and socialize.

I wouldn't buy one ot the moment, though, because selective breeding has really ruined the hip structure of this breed.

If you want a wilful dog try one of the large heard protection breeds.

 

[Bree24]

@boina I would argue that all herding breeds are willful when not properly trained. It doesn’t mean that they aren’t easily trained or eager to please, but they can and will assert themselves if given the opportunity. I spend a lot of time at dog parks and rarely ever do I come across a dog that has been properly trained, of any breed, which is why I’m always wary of a new owner’s choice in dog. Regarding the shepherd breeds, many of the dogs I come across at the park exhibit strong dominant behaviours because their owners simply don’t recognize social cues. They don’t “speak dog”, as it were. I agree with you, bonding, training, socilization, and exercise are all very important, but you’re an experience dog owner and trainer with schooling in animal behaviour. Can you expect the same level of attentiveness from a first-time owner who has never spent time with a dog before? IMO, it’s like trying to run before even knowing how to stand.

I’m surprised that Germany would have the show standard breed in popularity. I really thought that was an American thing, screwing the hips up like that. Here in Canada (or at least in the west where I’m from), the majority of breeders are still using Czech stud lines. They’re beautiful, classic, working-standard dogs with straight backs and very few hip issues. I would never buy the show standard, either.

 

[Luka98]

but you’re an experience dog owner and trainer with schooling in animal behaviour. Can you expect the same level of attentiveness from a first-time owner who has never spent time with a dog before?

We actually do if he's patient enough with this dog that's what we're trying to tell you. I was a 12 year old kid when i got mine and i had no prior experience to owning dogs i just committed to him and he turned out to be a family member i will cherish for the rest of my life.

Also yeah, i rescued mine off the street and had no idea there was variants to GSP's, unfortunately it turned out to be a very pure pup that has probably been inbred because he has 0 white fur on him. He's pure jet black and brown even in his age of 10. He's beautiful but his front legs are really giving in now due to genetics, i walk him for 10 minutes every day but we used to hike for 15-20 miles on the weekends when he was younger no problem. Still love him to bits tho and dread the day when he can't walk anymore but that's just life i guess.

 

[Teal]

Ok, about temperament: I strongly dislike terrier breeds. They are bred to do their thing, come hell or high water - I actually do agree with @Teal on that. Yes, I've seen hunting terriers kill themselves by taking on wild boar - not a good idea. They don't show fear, though, and they are very single minded once they decided to take something on. The thing is: I don't like that trait at all and I wouldn't call it strong. Single minded and stubborn, yes, but strong? Really...

You know why the worst biting attacks are from terrier breeds ('Pitt bulls')? Because those breeds don't let up once they decided to attack. A shepherd may bite you once - a terrier will not stop before you are down. That's not a very pleasant trait in my book.

I much prefer the more impressionable breeds (which is actually every other breed). They are much easier to train and most importantly: they connect much deeper with their human. It isn't all about obedience with them but about connection. I want a companion dog, and for that purpose a terrier is about the last breed I'd chose.

Yes, genetics does play a role, but it's most certainly not as big as you make it out to be. Putting everything on genetics is just another excuse for poor handling. And I'd bet you whatever you want I'd find the reason for this dog's fearfulness in the handling it's received by its owner within half an hour. I usually do. Abuse very often has nothing to do with creating an overly fearful dog. Misunderstanding the dogs signals has. But abuse can create fears that are hard to overcome in those impressionable breeds. To equate impressionable with weak is just ridiculous.

@MintyWood826 - that's like calling everyone but the loudest, most stubborn (and obnoxious) individual "mentally ill".

I did not mean to undermine the influence of "nurture" on a dog's temperament... people just so often attribute a dog's temperament/behaviour 100% to nurture/"how they are raised" that I tend to focus on the genetic aspect. Nurturing and human influence on a dog's temperament certainly can mold how they react to stimuli.. but it doesn't change their genetic instincts. For example, I have a dog who I have extensively trained and competed with in obedience. We can be side by side with another dog/handler team in competition and he will focus 100% on me as I ask. But if I were to "free" him (give him a release to do as he pleases), he is going to kill that other dog. His extensive training from puppyhood and his deep bond with me mean that I have some degree of management over him in the right situations... but I would NEVER put my dogs in a situation where they have to "choose" training over instincts, but they are going to act on instinct. Other, as you call them more "impressionable," breeds can be trained even further in a lot of cases to where training does override some natural reactions... but in my terriers and hunting sighthounds, that is not something we expect nor attempt to achieve.

I consider terriers to have a "hard" temperament... meaning they are not easily phased, influenced, pursuaded/dissuaded, etc etc. And these are things I absolutely want in a dog. I want a dog with no quit and no fear. I abaolutely agree with you that a lot of terrier breeds are not good choices for a companion dog because of those traits. My main breed is the American Pit Bull Terrier... they have a lot more affection for humans, bond strongly, and are more "all purpose" dogs... whereas dogs like Jagd or Patterdale really just want to work all the time and I love them dearly for their function as hunting dogs.

At the end of the day, the reason why you have a dog and your own temperament is going to influence the breed/s that match well with you - I have dogs to work, hunt, and compete in sports. Personally, I am incredibly annoyed by the more "impressionable" breeds like Goldens, Labradors, GSDs, etc. I hate a dog that is constantly looking for approval and needing direction every step of the way. I want an independent thinker that is relentless... hence, terriers are my soulmates and I do not begrudge anyone who hates them. To have terriers, you have to be just as committed as they are and it is a LOT of work... not everyone wants that in a dog, and that is fine. But please do not equate crates, chain spots, etc to a lack of ability to train/control our dogs... these are tools we use to properly manage and keep our dogs safe.