Very odd trapdoor spider behaviour!

Shazz

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Right, well my Silver leg trapdoor spider, labelled only as Cyphonsia Sp. has been acting very strangely, he(i say 'he' but gender is unknown) has filled in its burrow and rebuilt about 3 times in the past few weeks since i got it, which isn't too unusual, but recently it has left its burrow and just sits outside almost in a half death curl and is very unresponsive almost like he's stoned, you can prod and poke him and even almost cover him entirely in dirt and he won't even flinch, but prod him enough and he will go into a normal stance and run a few inches away but then stop and instantly become in that almost unresponsive state again. He doesn't eat and isn't skinny or fat, he isn't dehydrated and doesn't drink any water when provided. He was sold to me as a juvie, and has not moulted since, size is approx 1inch in leg span, 1.5 at the most, no bigger than the average house spider. He is kept in a tall plastic sweet jar approximately 5inch in diameter and 8inches deep yet his burrows never go deeper than an inch. Any questions pls ask, i want to get to the bottom of this odd behaviour!
 

pannaking22

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What kind of substrate do you have it on? Sounds like it isn't a huge fan of what it's on now, or there's something not quite right that it can't get over.
 

basin79

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Right, well my Silver leg trapdoor spider, labelled only as Cyphonsia Sp. has been acting very strangely, he(i say 'he' but gender is unknown) has filled in its burrow and rebuilt about 3 times in the past few weeks since i got it, which isn't too unusual, but recently it has left its burrow and just sits outside almost in a half death curl and is very unresponsive almost like he's stoned, you can prod and poke him and even almost cover him entirely in dirt and he won't even flinch, but prod him enough and he will go into a normal stance and run a few inches away but then stop and instantly become in that almost unresponsive state again. He doesn't eat and isn't skinny or fat, he isn't dehydrated and doesn't drink any water when provided. He was sold to me as a juvie, and has not moulted since, size is approx 1inch in leg span, 1.5 at the most, no bigger than the average house spider. He is kept in a tall plastic sweet jar approximately 5inch in diameter and 8inches deep yet his burrows never go deeper than an inch. Any questions pls ask, i want to get to the bottom of this odd behaviour!
Could just be unsettled. Could be coming up to a moult and didn't feel his tunnel was adequate.
 

Shazz

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What kind of substrate do you have it on? Sounds like it isn't a huge fan of what it's on now, or there's something not quite right that it can't get over.
Its on cocofibre, from those bricks, its quite moist but theres plenty of ventilation.
 

Shazz

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Could just be unsettled. Could be coming up to a moult and didn't feel his tunnel was adequate.
That would explain the re-tunneling, but not the unresponsiveness. Afterall this is a trapdoor spider that i can tip over without him flinching, hell pretty much only move if u roll him 360 degrees lol.
 

basin79

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That would explain the re-tunneling, but not the unresponsiveness. Afterall this is a trapdoor spider that i can tip over without him flinching, hell pretty much only move if u roll him 360 degrees lol.
If it's in premoult you will be doing a lot of harm.

Just leave it be and see what happens.
 

Shazz

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If it's in premoult you will be doing a lot of harm.

Just leave it be and see what happens.
Would be the weirdest premoult ive ever seen, usually this sort of behaviour would be less than 48hours before a moult. I will leave it another week or so, my guess is it will either recover or die, i cant imagine a spider behaving like this will survive for very long.
 

basin79

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Would be the weirdest premoult ive ever seen, usually this sort of behaviour would be less than 48hours before a moult. I will leave it another week or so, my guess is it will either recover or die, i cant imagine a spider behaving like this will survive for very long.
Time will tell. Hope everything turns out well.
 

CRX

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Damn, this was 4 years ago. I do hate it when the OP posts stuff like this, and never posts an update.
 

RezonantVoid

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I would say the behaviour likely continued and the spider died, cocofibre is a poor substrate choice for most trapdoors. This is especially the case with Barychelidae, which have extra specialised feet with claw tufts like tarantulas, and that are way more sensitive to their environment than most over families I've kept. Never generalise trapdoor husbandry
 

The Snark

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I would say the behaviour likely continued and the spider died, cocofibre is a poor substrate choice for most trapdoors.
Question for you. What is with this substrate ideas people have? The common soil in SE Asia and Aus where many burrowing species live is silt or sandy loam very often bearing some clay. Add iron oxide for flavor as in the red desert.
 

RezonantVoid

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Question for you. What is with this substrate ideas people have? The common soil in SE Asia and Aus where many burrowing species live is silt or sandy loam very often bearing some clay. Add iron oxide for flavor as in the red desert.
Your guess is as good as mine. I try and base my husbandry upon logic and nature, looking at what a species naturally chooses as opposed to what the average hobbyist does (which lets face it is, 95% of the time, a barebones coco-cork-combo as I like to call it). I see better results doing this than when using the standard cocofibre/peat moss method, and therefore recommend others try it out too
 

The Snark

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One example that readily comes to mind here is Heteropoda Minax, Asian black tarantula. In almost every location of their natural environment they prefer hard compacted soil. They are very capable excavators and solid clay that a shovel can't penetrate even an inch seems to be no problem for them to dig 10 to 12 inch deep tunnels
 

RezonantVoid

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One example that readily comes to mind here is Heteropoda Minax, Asian black tarantula. In almost every location of their natural environment they prefer hard compacted soil. They are very capable excavators and solid clay that a shovel can't penetrate even an inch seems to be no problem for them to dig 10 to 12 inch deep tunnels
I think alot of other T's are similar. Our native Selenotypus and Selenotholus like hardened compacted sandy loam from dry arid areas where they make deep burrows, most people keep them here on damp coir
 

The Snark

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most people keep them here on damp coir
Interesting lines of speculation here.
It seems the question would be is what effects, positive or negative, that this alien environment has? The first thing that comes to mind are infectious organisms; that seems to me the chief hazard. Then is the animal stressed by the alternative environment? What indicators are there that would reveal it's overall health and contentment, if any, in comparison to in situ? Long term factors that involve adaptation I wouldn't think relevant unless the animal is bred and becomes a progenitor.
I'm trying to take into account that many animals in the wild live in less than ideal circumstances.
 

RezonantVoid

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Interesting lines of speculation here.
It seems the question would be is what effects, positive or negative, that this alien environment has? The first thing that comes to mind are infectious organisms; that seems to me the chief hazard. Then is the animal stressed by the alternative environment? What indicators are there that would reveal it's overall health and contentment, if any, in comparison to in situ? Long term factors that involve adaptation I wouldn't think relevant unless the animal is bred and becomes a progenitor.
I'm trying to take into account that many animals in the wild live in less than ideal circumstances.
Going back to Barychelidae, the main thing that usually shows itself first and foremost with these types of spiders is stress. Often this is made clear by a refusal to burrow and/or constantly making new starter burrows in different locations over a very short time frame. The spider will often be visible curled up on the surface during the day or above the ground in a corner under the lid, and blanket the entire enclosure in webbing from walking around. Infectious parasites don't seem to be a regular occurrence in peat/coco setups, but I do wonder if the lack of bioactivity these packaged substrates offer might play a part.

But the biggest issue I have is one that affects them even if they do settle in to these substrates, and that's structural integrity. The majority of terrestrial Australian Barychelidae make very thick plug lids (my largest Idiommata's lid is about 10-12mm in thickness). In order for the lid and burrow entry to support this, the sub has to be able to hold shape very well. With very fine grained peat, this may not be an issue, but with coir the lids tend to fall off on their own after some time.

All in all, you end up with a stressed out spider due to it no longer being able to replicate its natural behaviour in captivity. This is mostly the case with WC individuals
 

Nacnac

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First I want to say thank you for you guys posting, so I have been slowly posting my experience of this substrate/ liphistus sp / what I have been seeing and doing and using rezonantvoid to figure out all this stuff. So I posted about my liphistus making his burrow and a lid and he even ate I posted that shortly after I noticed he abandoned burrow and has been acting like he hates the substrate digging down leaving and or sitting up to and noticed had a little to much water in bottom of cup so rezonant mentioned might want to tweak substrate so this time I thought maybe it was the jungle mix with clay sand he was not liking and not staying burrowed so I tweaked the substrate and used almost all jungle mix same thing never went in burrow or attempted and this is 3 or 4 days on my tweak of substrate and today I went to check on him and throw in some food instantly comes to surface runs away and stays on surface for a few hours so I pulled the food to elevieate the stress of him being scared I almost think the fir shavings in jungle mix might be culprit would like thoughts cause I am thanking of using reptisoil it is coco peat soil sand don’t see the sand looks really just like expensive dirt but ya ty
 
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