Troubleshooting versicolor death

[Malum Argenteum]

About 18 hours ago I found my 1" DLS C. versicolor hanging from its webbing by one leg. It didn't look curled; the hanging leg was stretched but the others were in a more or less natural looking position against the side of the enclosure. It had been refusing food for about ten days and though it wasn't particularly plump I figured it was molting in a funny position. It last molted a little over 2 months ago. I didn't get a pic of it hanging, because I thought all was normal, but it was high in the web tube:




It was still there this morning, so I picked up the enclosure to get a closer look, and the spider detached from the webbing. This is it:



The corpse is flaccid, if that helps figure out what I did wrong. Here is the whole enclosure:



It isn't visible in that pic, but there is a ring of about 12 vent holes in the top of the box.

The only relevant change I can think of in the last few weeks is that we had a cold snap (the same one the whole US had), and my reptile room, which usually runs 70-75F and 45-50% RH was 65-70F and about 30% RH for about a week. I realize those temps and the RH are unlikely to be relevant, but it is the only change I can think of.

I know that no one can say for sure what happened, but if anything about all this stands out as relevant to experienced keepers, I'd like to figure out how to improve my care going forward (I also have a t. vagans and a C. cyanopubescens). Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Smotzer]

I don’t see anything super obvious as cause.
But those water dishes look like really small diameter, not sure how easily they can be drink out of, just a thought. During those ten days had you offered and water droplets directly to webbing?

 

[Malum Argenteum]

The water dish is 1/2" in diameter. I have seen the spider drink out of it in the past, but I suppose if the water level is a bit low it might be harder.

No, I have not offered water on the webbing.

 

[ccTroi]

i don’t see anything that u did wrong. i’ve experienced this before when i had a dozen versicolors at one time and even smaller batches. i had the identical setup as yours, and i had a few die seemingly out of nowhere. i think species isn’t as hardy as for ex an LP. i think this is one of the times where the sling was just not fit

i like ur inverted amacs. i use them too for Avicularia and Caribena spp.

 

[l4nsky]

Try and put a water droplet on its mouth and see what happens. I had an Ornithoctoninae sp Mindanao Central that died mysteriously as well without the legs curling underneath and when I tried to revive it by placing water on it's mouth parts, the fluid actually went in the spider and came out a small rupture in the ventral portion of the abdomen. Don't know how it happened, but it seems the cause of death was an injury.

 

[Storm76]

Their sacs aren't small and some few individuals probably aren't going to make it no matter how well they are cared for. I've had this happen now and again with various former Avics. Sometimes nature just says "no". It's not always the fault of the keeper but natures decision.

What I will say though, is that with a sling that size, in an enclosure that big, I'd put some water droplets into the webbing itself weekly - no matter the present waterdish (which is primarily there to raise humidity in the enclosure actually and as little as yours is doesn't do much on that front. I'd use a shallow, wider one). Those setups, while convenient to open without having to occasionally catch a spooked sling, are a bit inconvenient when it comes to that sadly...

 

[Smotzer]

but I suppose if the water level is a bit low it might be harder.

That is what I am thinking about, might be hard to access if water levels drop.

No, I have not offered water on the webbing.

I woykd suggest if you get another Aviculariinae that when they web you place water droplets occasionally especially if it’s not eating. While I see mine drink from water dishes, it seems not all seem to utilize them, @viper69 posts that frequently. And even though mine drink from dishes I still add droplets regularly definely at that size. Not saying this is the cause, some times things just die, and we know very little about any of those actual causes.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Try and put a water droplet on its mouth and see what happens. I had an Ornithoctoninae sp Mindanao Central that died mysteriously as well without the legs curling underneath and when I tried to revive it by placing water on it's mouth parts, the fluid actually went in the spider and came out a small rupture in the ventral portion of the abdomen. Don't know how it happened, but it seems the cause of death was an injury.

Interesting. I just tried this, and it didn't reveal anything. I do appreciate the idea, though.

So far I'm thinking that I ran it a bit too dry. It does seem to correlate with the drop in ambient RH (and/or beginning premolt) that may have sent it over the edge.

Thank you all for the advice.

 

[Smotzer]

So far I'm thinking that I ran it a bit too dry. It does seem to correlate with the drop in ambient RH (and/or beginning premolt) that may have sent it over the edge.

Dry is fine though, I keep mine on totally dry substrate, with a water dish that I never overflow but keep full, and apply droplets to webbing. Hydration is different they need internal moisture. But it just have been a fluke death

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Dry is fine though, I keep mine on totally dry substrate, with a water dish that I never overflow but keep full, and apply droplets to webbing. Hydration is different they need internal moisture. But it just have been a fluke death

Understood. By 'a bit too dry' I meant 'not providing enough accessible water in general'. Thanks for reminding about the dry sub, though.

Since we -- of necessity, because a plastic enclosure isn't nature -- keep these guys in less overall moisture than they're used to having access to, we need to pay closer attention to making sure they do have water sources available especially when they aren't eating for whatever reason. I knew this, I guess, but I kind of assumed it would come down to drink (and assumed that since I have seen it drinking out of the dish, it would always be able to reach the water). I need to be more aware of these details, I think. Learning....

 

[Marlana]

I’ve noticed Aviculariinae in general like a bit higher temps. Tom Moran has noted this and it made me pay attention this winter whenever we had cooler temps, and subsequently raise the room temps (always above 70). Honestly it shouldn’t kill them when it’s short periods but I noticed decreased appetite and activity in general. I don’t think that’s what happened here and honestly your care looks pretty good to me. But I just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[Coradams]

I may not be seeing it clearly but is does it look like the opithosoma is rotated in relation to the prosoma at the pedicel in the second picture? Could it have twisted and injured itself?

 

[Malum Argenteum]

I may not be seeing it clearly but is does it look like the opithosoma is rotated in relation to the prosoma at the pedicel in the second picture? Could it have twisted and injured itself?

Possibly, though the pics were taken after I manipulated it some (which was after the corpse fell from where it had been hanging) to try to figure out if was in fact in the middle of a molt when it died.

 

[l4nsky]

I may not be seeing it clearly but is does it look like the opithosoma is rotated in relation to the prosoma at the pedicel in the second picture? Could it have twisted and injured itself?

This most likely happened post mortem as the corpse was flipped and posed for the pictures.