trip to france

[Arachnopuppy]

Originally posted by kellygirl
Why would I have any reason to brownnose anyways? I already won the T. blondi!!! ;P ;P ;P


kellygirl

Show off.

 

[Arachnopuppy]

Originally posted by skinheaddave
It isn't us, or even Scott, you have to worry about. Debby is the one that'll get you.

Cheers,
Dave

The phrase "He who kisses she who rules he who rules' ass" is ringing in my head like a gong.

 

[Arachnopuppy]

Originally posted by Satanika
;P ;P ;P



Debby

And for some reason, the phrase "She whose ass being kissed for no reason" is also ringing in my head like crazy.

 

[Mister Internet]

Originally posted by kellygirl
By the way, t man, may I introduce you to Tom (Mister Internet)... one of our MODERATORS. ;P :}

Our moderators were hand picked by the webmaster, Scott (mrderanged), and I tend to think he has a good judge of character. If any of them were ever out of line, Scott would take care of it. Otherwise, don't question the moderators.

kellygirl

While I appreciate the vote of confidence, I thought I might take this opportunity to clear a small point up...

As far as not questioning the moderators... that caveat only applies to Arachnopets administration... meaning, our decisions are final when it comes to deleting posts, locking threads, etc etc...

It does NOT apply to matters of opinion such as "should I attempt an illegal import of a tarantula" ... I certainly have my opinions, but that does not mean they are gospel, or even necesarily correct. We don't help out around here because we're infallible... just a little nuts is all.

 

[t man{tal}]

well i just got home from an 8 hours drive and a 4.30 hours by
plane and the first thing i did was to enter the forum

so i just wanted to update you on what append
i did go to a reptiles store which also sold tarantulas

but i decided that i dont want to end up in prison
so no t's

but tommarow ill give a call to my friend and order some t's

i really want an a.versicoulor and
h. minax

since i abbsolutly love my h.lividum and i think she likes me to
and i thought that in behevior there alike and plus there really beutiful

 

[Pyrdacor]

BTW, I'm from Germany, Hannover exactly as you can see on the left. And knowing german officials and especially the laws of lower saxony where Hannover is siuatued I can tell you, you were damn lucky not to get caught at the airport. Smuggling out animals of any kind in this country isn't just a small offense. It is a major offense. That one could easily cost you about 10.000 EUR. But it is even more expensive to get caught bringing animals in the country. That's up to 30.000 EUR, so don't mind Better stay on legal basis.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by Pyrdacor
BTW, I'm from Germany, Hannover exactly as you can see on the left. And knowing german officials and especially the laws of lower saxony where Hannover is siuatued I can tell you, you were damn lucky not to get caught at the airport. Smuggling out animals of any kind in this country isn't just a small offense.

Best to leave the smuggling to your neighbours, they seem to do a fine job of it. I'm amazed every year at the new spiders that have made it into Europe each and every year, many from countries it's illegal to export inverts from. Disgusting to be Frank.

No offense inended at all to you personally Pyrcador, I think the majority of illegal imorts/exports go through other European countries. A lot seem to then make it to Germany though....

Cheers,
Steve

 

[dennis]

Originally posted by Steve Nunn
Best to leave the smuggling to your neighbours, they seem to do a fine job of it. I'm amazed every year at the new spiders that have made it into Europe each and every year, many from countries it's illegal to export inverts from. Disgusting to be Frank.

That's your opinion. But smuggling has different sides. It really puts the hobby in a bad light, but if there weren't some people who simply took the risk, and smuggled some species over the border, we would have much less different species of tarantulas.

For example, P. miranda/metallica, everyone wants one, (it sitll is a lot of money) therefore it will be bred a lot, so the illegal imports will eventually stop, or at least decrease. If we haven't had those smugglers, we wouldn't have those cool species either...


Dennis

 

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by dennie
That's your opinion.

Dennis

Yes, it is, isn't it.

Well, Poecilotheria metallica was actually exported legally, so it is in fact a bad example, but I do get the point. Unfortunately Dennis, your country is the worst for it, some of the dealers in Holland are unbelievable (and no, this isn't just my opinion either). I'm sure there are dealers in Holland who do things the right way, many of them, it's just a shame the others ruin the good guys reputations. For example, did you know there are dealers in Holland who have already been busted for illegaly importing tarantulas?? They continue to operate their businesses too, your govt did nothing to stop them.

Look at it this way, many countries have closed exportation of arachnids because of the huge amounts being pilaged from the wild, all so we can have a "pretty" new T in our hands. These countries are genuinely worried that their native wildlife is suffering because of our greed. Do you honesly feel this isn't worth concern??? Did you know over 50 000 G. rosea are imported into the US alone each year?? Soon Chile will undoubtedly ban exports too, these numbers are incredible. How do you honesly feel about these numbers??? Do you then think the banning of exports from Chile is justified? Do you also think it's then OK to smuggle more from said country??We need to start cative breeding as best we can, for good reason. The worlds tarantula populations cannot sustain this hobby if it is to grow. I know developement kills many taranulas too, but this doen't give us a right to further pilage wild populations that are possibly in danger.

Many T's can be exported legally from countries with closed borders, it just takes a bit of work with the authorities, the smugglers just couldn't be bothered going throught the right -procedure and you're right, I can't suport this at all.

I don't mean any offense Dennis, I just don't agree with you.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Mister Internet]

Originally posted by dennie
That's your opinion. But smuggling has different sides. It really puts the hobby in a bad light, but if there weren't some people who simply took the risk, and smuggled some species over the border, we would have much less different species of tarantulas.

For example, P. miranda/metallica, everyone wants one, (it sitll is a lot of money) therefore it will be bred a lot, so the illegal imports will eventually stop, or at least decrease. If we haven't had those smugglers, we wouldn't have those cool species either...

Dennis

Everybody wants P. regalis too... you think they get captive bred or harvested? The answer is HARVESTED, because it still is, and will ALWAYS be cheaper than captive breeding. Just because you want a new T every time you turn around is hardly justification for mass harvesting and breaking international law... sure, some of the exportation laws are crap, I'm not arguing as to their validity. What I AM saying is that if you're going to argue the laws, at least argue on the merits of the laws... don't resort to the juvenile "If they didn't break the laws, we wouldn't have these cool new T's!!!" argument... it just makes you look silly. If you think the ends justifies the means where the invert hobby is concerned, you have an incredibly selfish view of the animals you're keeping, IMO.

I could continue to critique this post, but I don't feel that would solve anything, given your mindset... you kind of have to decide to change the way you think, there's not much I can do except hope that you haven't had the chance to influence anyone else to think the same way.

 

[dennis]

Originally posted by Mister Internet
I could continue to critique this post, but I don't feel that would solve anything, given your mindset... you kind of have to decide to change the way you think, there's not much I can do except hope that you haven't had the chance to influence anyone else to think the same way.

Wow, don't get me wrong now guys!
I am against the harvesting of the species. I know about the huge amount of G. rosea being exported every year, and if there was anything I could do against it, I would, really.
And for me being selfish, and saying the harvesting of species is okay .... nah. The only WC spider I have is a G. rosea, all my other spiders are CB. And I just think it's good to at least let a few rare species hit the market, so that they can be bred... And I don't really care what you, or anybody else thinks about this, it's just how I think about it.

But i'll try to stop now, because this discussion will never end i guess .

Dennis

 

[Mister Internet]

Who's getting who wrong? I fail to see how I made any assumptions that weren't based directly on your own line of reasoning... anyway, lest I be seen as a persecutor and not a teacher...

I am not against harvesting. This discussion was never about harvesting. This discussion was about harvesting ILLEGALLY. Getting rare T's to breed is no excuse for breaking a country's anti-smuggling laws... it makes one no better than the ivory hunters.

Originally posted by dennie
Wow, don't get me wrong now guys!
I am against the harvesting of the species. I know about the huge amount of G. rosea being exported every year, and if there was anything I could do against it, I would, really.
And for me being selfish, and saying the harvesting of species is okay .... nah. The only WC spider I have is a G. rosea, all my other spiders are CB. And I just think it's good to at least let a few rare species hit the market, so that they can be bred... And I don't really care what you, or anybody else thinks about this, it's just how I think about it.

But i'll try to stop now, because this discussion will never end i guess .

Dennis

 

[skinheaddave]

I just want to chime in here with a little counter-argument to a reasoning I sometimes run into. The reasoning goes something like this:

Okay, so I take two of X from the wild. Even in rare populations this isn't much. I am a master breeder, so in no time I have plenty of X and then ta-da we have a population of CB X in North America and we needn't harvest from the wild at all.

Sounds nice, doesn't it. What people forget is that you now have one bloodline being captive bred. Unless you continue to bring in fresh specimens to breed, you will reach a genetic meltdown at some point. Basically, this view is shortsighted to say the least.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Pyrdacor]

Steve, I didn't actually say that there is no possibility to smuggle also in Germany, what I just ment is that you have to bear hard consequences IF you get caught.

 

[Steve Nunn]

Originally posted by Pyrdacor
Steve, I didn't actually say that there is no possibility to smuggle also in Germany, what I just ment is that you have to bear hard consequences IF you get caught.

Point taken

Thanks,
Steve