trap door spider advice sought

[ecooper]

I am thinking of getting a couple of trap door spiders to play with (and photograph). There are 2 spp. available to me right now: Ctenizidae deserti (from Africa) and Bothriocyrtum californicum from California. I have never kept either species (and know next to nothing about Ctenizidae).

Can anyone provide some advice on their care? I'm assuming that a substrate suitable for Hadrurus arizonensis would work well: sand mixed with Zoomed clay. Or maybe packed wet sand that has been allowed to dry would be OK? I assume they will dig their own burrows? My understanding is that they stay inside their burrows and don't roam around. If that is the case, could more than one specimen be kept together in a suitably large enclosure?

Thanks in advance for any information and advice...

EC
www.macrocritters.wordpress.com

 

[Smokehound714]

Any substrate will do, provided it's stable and doesn't collapse.

B. Californicum seems to prefer soil with a higher clay content. And they like heat.

In the wild, you'll tend to only find them on south-southwest facing hillsides. Lack of warmth will cause sluggish behavior.

this is a species that can take up to a year to complete their burrow. You will need patience, and you will get major urges to dig them up to make sure they're alive. Damaging their door will upset them, and can cause them to encapsulate themselves, consequently halting any work they did on their burrow, and entering a weird diapause-like state.

Don't attempt to feed them until you see their door slightly open. This species is extremely easy to stress out, and will fare poorly in areas with too much vibration. They will even hold a threat pose for hours.

a deep substrate, gently sloping, seems to help calm them down. I've noticed the same with wafer-lid traps, too.

I can't help with the exotics, though from what I've read and seen, they seem to be much more forgiving..

That said, B. Californicum is still entertaining, so long as they're left alone.

It definitely helps to have a bit of substrate from their natural area.. Seems to reduce stress.

 

[High Lord Dee]

I am thinking of getting a couple of trap door spiders to play with (and photograph). There are 2 spp. available to me right now: Ctenizidae deserti (from Africa) and Bothriocyrtum californicum from California. I have never kept either species (and know next to nothing about Ctenizidae).

Can anyone provide some advice on their care? I'm assuming that a substrate suitable for Hadrurus arizonensis would work well: sand mixed with Zoomed clay. Or maybe packed wet sand that has been allowed to dry would be OK? I assume they will dig their own burrows? My understanding is that they stay inside their burrows and don't roam around. If that is the case, could more than one specimen be kept together in a suitably large enclosure?

Thanks in advance for any information and advice...

EC
www.macrocritters.wordpress.com

I am in the process of finishing my custom trapdoor enclosures. I have acquired some round acrylic containers and added thick acrylic rods to the centers. I am waiting for my watering tubes to come. My plan is to water from the bottom up by filling the bases with Hyrdo balls to keep the humidity up withouth saturating the soil. I have read so many suggestions for substrate that I am convinced that it is not that crucial but avoid anything that would encourage molds, etc. The purpose of the acrylic rod is to help the spiders dig their burrows towards the outside of the enclosure so you have a chance to see them once in awhile. These spiders are known to be pet "dirt" as they are rarely if ever seen once they burrow. Good luck with them and keep us posted on your progress.

HLD

 

[Smokehound714]

You don't want the substrate perpetually moist for bothriocyrtum.

In fact, you generally only find B. Californicum in dry habitats. They generally occur alongside aphonopelma.

fast-draining substrate is better, because you can mist the substrate until it is saturated. If you pour water in,
Hey will stress out.

As long as it's fast draining, and holds stability, you're all good.

In the wild, they only get rainfall during winter. they allow the remains of their prey to sit at the bottom, so you don't want that to be wet. they drink from moisture collected by their "cork", which absorbs dew like a sponge.

while it's true that many trapdoors do like moist habitat, the requirements can vary significantly within even a single genus. For example: aptostichus simus prefers loose sand, and high humidity, while aptostichus atomarius, or stanfordianus prefer the same habitat as bothriocyrtum- dry, stable sediment, and fast draining.

 

[High Lord Dee]

Good stuff. Consistent with most of the stuff I have heard on the forums. Is there any good genus specific trapdoor reading material out there? I am going with fast draining but would prefer humidity from the bottom up along with misting as needed. Thanks.

 

[ecooper]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone! I think I have a good idea how to set up B. californicum now. Still searching for info about Ctenizidae...

One last question about Bothriocyrtum…how deep should the substrate be?

Cheers,
EC

 

[Smokehound714]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone! I think I have a good idea how to set up B. californicum now. Still searching for info about Ctenizidae...

One last question about Bothriocyrtum…how deep should the substrate be?

Cheers,
EC

The more, the better. It would be ideal to have a large tank full of 12" of substrate. They like to burrow down, then, about 7-10", or so down, they dig so the deeper portion is parallel with the surface. Humidity isnt too much of an issue, as their tubes are designed to protect them against the elements and regulate humidity. Misting every once in a while will ensure the silk absorbs some water. Leaving some fine loose substrate on the top of the main substrate will greatly assist them in constructing their door.

If you're getting a young specimen, it's best to use a large enclosure- as they grow they will enlarge their burrow. Most species within ctenizidae generally behave identically, with obvious exceptions being Cyclocosmia, which prefer banks. I'll look for some literature, i may be able to find some for you. dont hold your breath though

Actually, now that i think about it, there's a good chance your "deserti" might end up being an idiopid, and not a cork-lid species. I'd imagine those would do fine with the same clay/sand mix you'd use for hadrurus.

 

[High Lord Dee]

Good stuff. I am wrapping up the custom enclosures and am struggling with the substrate question. I am planning on using an African Violet soil that is peat free to avoid fungus growth for the high humidity species as this soil will be damp (seeing that some of the tropical trap doors like humidity as high as 80%).

Struggling for the good ole North American species though. Open to mixing my own but the main ingredient seems to be dirt. Simply dirt. As easy as that sounds, it seems impossible to acquire soil without some additive or three. I have even read that perlite can be bad? So, what exactly should I look out for in purchasing the soil substrate for these spiders?

 

[Smokehound714]

Good stuff. I am wrapping up the custom enclosures and am struggling with the substrate question. I am planning on using an African Violet soil that is peat free to avoid fungus growth for the high humidity species as this soil will be damp (seeing that some of the tropical trap doors like humidity as high as 80%).

Struggling for the good ole North American species though. Open to mixing my own but the main ingredient seems to be dirt. Simply dirt. As easy as that sounds, it seems impossible to acquire soil without some additive or three. I have even read that perlite can be bad? So, what exactly should I look out for in purchasing the soil substrate for these spiders?

Ah, our species are simple. the vast majority prefer dry conditions, though wet substrate does stimulate burrow construction.

Let me break down some simple terms, alot of people seem to be confused about this, as I was as well, at first;

Silt- very very fine sand. A good source for silt is a streambed, especially a stream that seldom dries up, as the silt will be nice and eroded.

Sand- Just plain sand, doesnt matter what kind, just make sure it's not coated or treated with chemicals. Just make sure it's not HUGE grains, just basic sand like you get at the beach.

Clay- Pure bentonite clay in powder form is the BEST kind you can find. Im lucky, as I have a spot where i can collect bentonite for free.


50% sand, 30% silt, 20% clay is an excellent mixture for various burrowers, not just spiders, but scorpions and desert centipedes like scolopendra polymorpha and S. heros.


Just mix it good with your hands (dont shake, it will cause the denser grains to rise and ruin stability) and then douse it good with a small steady stream of water, until it gets saturated. Dont mix further, the saturation causes a sort of "interlocking" effect. Leave it out in the sun when preparation is complete so it dries. (Doesnt have to be dry for trapdoors, as mentioned above, moist substrate stimulates burrowing behavior, especially for Bothriocyrtum.)

You can find all sorts of sand colors, so you can make all sorts of neat substrate mixtures

 

[High Lord Dee]

This was very helpful. I am off to go "dirt" hunting. Thanks.

HLD

---------- Post added 04-30-2014 at 07:07 AM ----------

Okay, last question I promise. I have used the Zoo Med excavating clay for my T's and it has worked very well. Do you have any experience with that product for Trapdoors? I have a surplus of it and could use that as an alternative or at least an additive to the mix above.

 

[Ambly]

collect dirt responsibly I have done it myself recently for clay. If you can find freshly fallen trees in an area with the substrate you are looking for, you can collect from what will soon erode away (but for all I know thats actually less ecologically friendly).

Just try and mimic their natural substrate, slope, etc. and you'll have a happy trapdoor.

Also, choose a good jar size. Rehoming these guys as adults kinda sucks... I don't know about all trapdoors, but the younger/smaller ones always seem to burrow more readily.

You're doing the right thing: asking people.

I really think we ought to get some sort of very basic trapdoor caresheet up here. I believe they are mostly inactive pet holes that do not do well in captivity because people treat them as thus, chuckin em in whatever substrate without checkin the boards (unlike the fine author of this thread, cheers man). I don't know about you guys, but I check mine every morning and night and I've seen some pretty cool stuff outta them.

 

[Smokehound714]

I'm pretty sure zoo med excavator is just bentonite with a fancy name to get you to buy it for a higher price

 

[High Lord Dee]

Got it. Photos will be posted in the next couple of weeks once I am all done. Thanks again for the help.