Tokay Gecko help

[PeterPann]

tl;dr: I got a Tokay Gecko at repticon and I don't know what I'm doing and I need people in the community to help me make sure I'm doing everything I possibly can to make his life the best life. I'm a beginner and the vendor severely misinformed me on a lot of the husbandry requirements, but I will have a breakdown of the setup at the end of the post. I'm committed to my angry gecko with trust issues. I love him. He chose me to be his mom. I will do whatever he needs me to do to ensure he is well taken care of, so please give all the pointers and tips and tricks you have. I have an entire document regarding his husbandry requirements that I'm trying to get typed up.


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Annndddd here we go. Grab your popcorn ladies, mens, and non-binary friends because this is about to be as detailed as possible so you hopefully have enough information to help a girl out. I will also attach pictures and link a video of him so you can get a feel for what I'm attempting to describe.

Appearance concerns: First of all, he's got red lips. Almost like he's gotten into a fight or something? He has a toe that looks like it was either smashed or bitten by a tankmate, and his toepads look really dark. There are also rough patches on his scales. He's clearly very skinny, but I'm not sure if thats because he's young or not? I'm assuming he's halfway through maturity because he's about 7 inches including his tail.

Behaviour concerns: He's not eating very well. I've been trying to tong feed him for the past couple nights to make sure he gets his food, but he can't seem to get it off of the tongs--even when the cricket is literally dangling by a leg. He hasn't barked yet... even when attempting to give my tongs a warning bite. He licks his lips a lot... it seems like that may just be a gecko thing, but for all weird behaviours, thats a thing that I think is odd lol. I have noticed he'll also rub his head on the sticks or his foam backing on the back of the glass. Is that a sign of a problem, or is he just getting the head scratchies? He still seems fairly active... he'll jump from limb to limb on his giant stick thing in his enclosure. He also likes to crawl on the back wall and on the glass. He's still got a sense of curiosity, and he's adorable. The video is of me trying to feed him. I'll even kill crickets to make sure that they can't bury themselves. I'm just worried that he's so malnourished that he can't hunt like he would be able to if he had some weight on him. Should I keep doing that? We have had one poop since Saturday and it had a little white ball in it.

Enclosure specs:
Tank: Exo-terra mini tall enclosure (12"x12"x18")
Heating: Exo-terra heat mat 4 watt 4"x5"; exo-terra ceramic heater 60 watt
Substrate: Exo-terra coco fiber and sphagnum moss
Accessories: A stick thing to climb, some plastic ivy, a lower stick thing, a half tree trunk looking hide thats propped up next to his heating pad so he can stay warm and also hide. I'm planning on getting another plastic plant to drape over the top so he can have more privacy. I'm also going to look for a shelf for the top of the enclosure so he can bask a little easier. He seemed really happy laying out on the top of the foam when I had his lid off. (The clip that came with the lamp wont let me secure the lid, so I had it covering most of the top while keeping an eye on him to make sure he didn't escape. He was safe while the temps got up.)

His humidity levels stay around 60 to 80%. I spray him down in the morning, when I get home from work, and before I go to sleep if the humidity is closer to that 60%.
The heating guide for the bulb says that at 20" deep, it should be 74F and at 4", it should be 107F, so I think that he's okay with the heat. I'm probably going to pick up a second thermometer for the top portion of his enclosure tonight. The one on the bottom leveled out at 75F.

I think thats it. If you need any other information, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm looking for an affordable reptile vet, but in the meantime, any suggestions or advice would be helpful!



Getting him to eat:

 

[The Snark]

Just observations of in the wild Tokays. This would change as they are domesticated and trained otherwise.
* They are nocturnal. Completely ignore food/eating during they day.
* Food. Must be moving. Something in the brain hotel got short circuits. Saw a katydid land on a tokays nose and froze, immobile. Tokay ignored it.
* They are shy. Human presence = time to hide somewhere.
* Temperature and humidity. Cool to cold and dry. Their hides are in cracks, crevices and way up in trees away from moisture. This apparently is a survival thing handed down over the millennia. Warm and wet means fungus to which they are very susceptible.
* If left undisturbed they can brumate at will, going for weeks or months without eating. Constant contact with other animals and situations that cause them to move about and not enter a torpor like state will shorten their life span.

Obviously their habits can be modified with a little patience. The above is simply their native habits and habitat which would make them feel more comfortable and inclined to eat.

PS One tidbit no tokay can refuse: mice. In the evening stealth drop a small mouse in the habitat then remove yourself from sight. Be prepared for a little gore. A wriggling pinky is tokay caviar on toast. They love to raid mice nests, maiming and chasing off or killing the adults present then grazing on the babies like a buffet.

 

[Liquifin]

@basin79 can help out, I'm pretty certain he has one. Which he can provide helpful info.

 

[PeterPann]

@basin79 can help out, I pretty certain he has one. Which he can provide helpful info.

I was hoping he'd see it. I tried watching his videos, but he doesn't talk much about Tokay health. Thanks for tagging him!

 

[basin79]

I was hoping he'd see it. I tried watching his videos, but he doesn't talk much about Tokay health. Thanks for tagging him!

First off I'd be taking him to a reptile vet to address his mouth. Better safe than sorry as it looks inflamed.

I keep Zeus in an exo terra 60x45x60cm heated by 2 stated heat mats and a uv bulb on a timer. A mat going right across the back of his enclosure and 1 underneath covering prehaps 1/3. The bottom isn't important but it just dries the substrate a little.

Zeus was captive bred but is still a "wild" Tokay. He quickly realised that his food was placed in a tub and will wait below it or go to it when I put good in.

Whilst I'm not any kind of expert on Tokay's I've had Zeus for years so I'll help where I'm able.

 

[PeterPann]

First off I'd be taking him to a reptile vet to address his mouth. Better safe than sorry as it looks inflamed.

I keep Zeus in an exo terra 60x45x60cm heated by 2 stated heat mats and a uv bulb on a timer. A mat going right across the back of his enclosure and 1 underneath covering prehaps 1/3. The bottom isn't important but it just dries the substrate a little.

Zeus was captive bred but is still a "wild" Tokay. He quickly realised that his food was placed in a tub and will wait below it or go to it when I put good in.

Whilst I'm not any kind of expert on Tokay's I've had Zeus for years so I'll help where I'm able.

Yeahhh his mouth is a concern for sure. Any idea as to what those dry spots look like on his jaw?

 

[basin79]

Yeahhh his mouth is a concern for sure. Any idea as to what those dry spots look like on his jaw?

No idea but it's the red/sore looking parts that concern me. A reptile vet visit would be my priority.

 

[The Snark]

In that video he isn't trying to eat. Those are multiple attack/defense snaps at something getting in it's face.

 

[The Snark]

If you watch tokays eating it's a whole body thing, a quick step-thrust forwards and glomp. Then watch male combat. All about slashing their heads to the side as they bite, body standing still for the best grip on the surface.

Every tokay keeper needs to watch them on walls during termite swarming time. Glomp glomp glompglompglomp burp... glomp. Slowly swelling up like a balloon.
The fights are slow motion then dash and slash. The big plan is to get a mouthful of enemy while it's feet aren't planted firmly. Then it's that rapid side to side motion as the bony ridges do their thing, the enemy off the surface and helpless.

Neither one moves. Hyper-extended forwards, the one that lifts a foot off the surface risks a chomp and being ripped off the wall.

 

[Teal]

Your first step should be taking him and a fecal sample to a vet. Wild caught Tokays often have major parasite loads that, combined with the stress of being captured and shipped, mean a huge decline in their immune system. The crappier the feel, the less they'll eat... it is a downward spiral that leads to the demise of most wild caught Tokays. His mouth looks like it has a fungal infection, which will also impact his ability to eat.

He is in really rough shape... you have your work cut out for you if you want to get him healthy, and without veterinary care he doesn't have a chance.

 

[PeterPann]

Your first step should be taking him and a fecal sample to a vet. Wild caught Tokays often have major parasite loads that, combined with the stress of being captured and shipped, mean a huge decline in their immune system. The crappier the feel, the less they'll eat... it is a downward spiral that leads to the demise of most wild caught Tokays. His mouth looks like it has a fungal infection, which will also impact his ability to eat.

He is in really rough shape... you have your work cut out for you if you want to get him healthy, and without veterinary care he doesn't have a chance.

I just found a reptile vet and I'm calling first thing in the morning to make an appointment. I'm hoping that I can get the vendor to cover vet costs. This should never have happened. I definitely didnt know what I was getting in to, but I'm glad hes with me so I can do everything in my power to help him.

 

[Teal]

I just found a reptile vet and I'm calling first thing in the morning to make an appointment. I'm hoping that I can get the vendor to cover vet costs. This should never have happened. I definitely didnt know what I was getting in to, but I'm glad hes with me so I can do everything in my power to help him.

Who was the vendor?

I can almost guarantee they will laugh at you, if not completely ignore any contact you make in regards to financial responsibility. The sad truth is that this happens allllll the time. I'm really sorry you were so severely mislead... Reptile expos are great for knowledgeable people and traps for impulse buyers.

Tokays are AMAZING geckos though, so I really hope you can get this little fella feeling better!

I recommend making the enclosure pretty minimal for now... paper toweling and just a hide. Whatever you have already used will need to be tossed out or sterilized to prevent reinfection (especially of parasites). It will be easier to monitor health (and collect fecal samples) in a minimalistic set up.

 

[The Snark]

We're rooting for him. Please keep us posted.

 

[PeterPann]

I have an appointment for him tomorrow morning at 10 am. Its going to be great because I have to bring him to another appointment because I won't have time to take him home first lol. Just walk up to the human doctor with my gecko. He was in the way when I was setting up his heat lamp for its semi permanent spot until his bracket comes in the mail so I thought it was a perfect opportunity to attempt handling.

Y'all. It made me fall that much more in love with him and he has to make it. If the vendor doesn't cover his vet bills, you best believe I'm leaving a very real review everywhere I possibly can that is under their name.
@Teal It was GHC Exotics who sold him to me. My dude was really sweet to me last night and we had a conversation about how we're going to be friends and that I will never do anything to harm me, so I want the same respect lol. He also barked! I sprinkled some water on him and he was not a fan lol. But I'll give an update after we hear back from the vet!

 

[Teal]

Honestly, him being so mellow is a bad sign. Tokays take a lot of work to habd-tame, and some never come around to it. If he was feeling good, he woukd be gaping, barking, and biting. I know you love him, but the more handling and messing with him you do right now the more he will be stressed.

When you transport him, make sure the container is dark so he feels more secure.

Let us know what the vet says!

 

[PeterPann]

Honestly, him being so mellow is a bad sign. Tokays take a lot of work to habd-tame, and some never come around to it. If he was feeling good, he woukd be gaping, barking, and biting. I know you love him, but the more handling and messing with him you do right now the more he will be stressed.

When you transport him, make sure the container is dark so he feels more secure.

Let us know what the vet says!

That was honestly a thought that crossed my mind. I only had to attempt handling because he was in the way. I was surprised how well it went.

For transport, I was going to line it with damp paper towels, give him a couple crickets or mealworms, and make sure it was dark. Does that sound good or should I not put the paper towels and food in there?

 

[basin79]

I have an appointment for him tomorrow morning at 10 am. Its going to be great because I have to bring him to another appointment because I won't have time to take him home first lol. Just walk up to the human doctor with my gecko. He was in the way when I was setting up his heat lamp for its semi permanent spot until his bracket comes in the mail so I thought it was a perfect opportunity to attempt handling.

Y'all. It made me fall that much more in love with him and he has to make it. If the vendor doesn't cover his vet bills, you best believe I'm leaving a very real review everywhere I possibly can that is under their name.
@Teal It was GHC Exotics who sold him to me. My dude was really sweet to me last night and we had a conversation about how we're going to be friends and that I will never do anything to harm me, so I want the same respect lol. He also barked! I sprinkled some water on him and he was not a fan lol. But I'll give an update after we hear back from the vet!

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He's extremely thin and like what's already been typed the fact he's so calm really isn't good news.

I SO SO SO SO hope the vet can save the little man. Poor little bugger

 

[PeterPann]

He's extremely thin and like what's already been typed the fact he's so calm really isn't good news.

I SO SO SO SO hope the vet can save the little man. Poor little bugger

Me too. I need him to make it through. I just emailed the vendor, so lets see what happens there. I'm fighting for this little guy. He deserves it.

 

[Teal]

Do not put feeders in the transport container. If you put moist paper towels, you need to also have a heat source because moist paper toweling is cold and he will chill quickly. I recommend loosely wrapping him completely in a soft towel and putting him in a transport cage like a little burrito.

 

[PeterPann]

So we went to the vet this morning. They said he was severely malnourished, dehydrated, retained some of his shed, has a mouth infection, and is missing teeth as well as has cracked teeth from forced feeding. He also has scabs. One on that spot on his mouth and one on his back from a probable bite.

I'm leaving him at the vet until this evening so he can get steamed and get his shed off. Theyre also giving him some fluids. Im coming home with antibiotics and anti inflammitories so he wont be in pain anymore. I was pleasantly surprised at the cost. It was only 265 at most.

As far as the vendor goes, i politely cussed them out and they offered to give me a refund of a whopping 16 dollars. Im explaining in a separate email that all of these issues are due to improper husbandry prior to my purchase and that they should step up to the plate and cover the cost. I'll give an update on that as well. Again, as a vendor who also has a local business, I would hope that they would be willing to make this situation right.

Dont mess with me and my children. I will fight for them. Thank you so much everyone for all of the support. I really appreciate everything <3