Three claws ?

[jr47]

I seen some where that they have found a new T in australia that has three claws on each leg. But I have not found any thing more about it. Has anyone heard about this or any more about this new spider.

 

[Stan Schultz]

I seen some where that they have found a new T in australia that has three claws on each leg. But I have not found any thing more about it. Has anyone heard about this or any more about this new spider.

I haven't heard of this, but would also be very interested in seeing the report.

Many or most of the so-called "true spiders" possess three claws on each leg. Most notable among them are the orb weavers (a number of different families) and the cobweb spiders (Theridiidae). Two claws are normally positioned next to, and parallel to each other like your index and middle fingers. The third claw opposes them like your thumb. In use, the third claw moves up between the other pair and pinches the silk line. Thus, they are able to grasp a silk strand efficiently. You can test how they do it by experimenting with your own hand and a pencil or soda straw. (Don't cheat by using your ring and little fingers!)

Of course, this arrangement has evolved as an aid for these spiders to move around their elaborate, structured webs. The major question here is (if your report is correct), "Why would a tarantula develop such a claw arrangement, considering their extreme size (for spiders) and the fact that they do not spin elaborate, structured webs?"

Of course, it's also possible that some bioscience technical writer who has never really looked at a spider close up, much less learned much of anything about them, has mistaken some other spider (either from a different family of mygalomorphs or maybe even just any "large, brown, hairy" spider) for a tarantula and got his story published in a magazine that doesn't critically read the articles it publishes.

Or, maybe they're just mutations from the 1950's nuclear tests in the South Pacific! (Okay. Maybe I've been watching too many 1960s "B" science fiction movies!)

We'll know more if anyone can provide a reference.

 

[jr47]

I wish I could remember where I saw the report. I suppose if true we will hear more about it sooner or later.
Maybe I watch to many movies also but I think we will see a lot of mutations from all the crap being spread around. Then every one can spend years argueing wether its normal evolution or pollution.

 

[ph0bia]

I'd not be surprised if it is mistaken... I've seen documentaries where people have refered to trap-door spiders as tarantulas and other such nonesense...

 

[Stan Schultz]

I wish I could remember where I saw the report. I suppose if true we will hear more about it sooner or later...

My copy of Ranier Foelix' Biology of Spiders is buried somewhere deep in the bowels of the storage bays in our motorhome and I can't lay my hands on it very easily. (One of these days I've got to drag everything out of there and reorganize my stuff.) I seem to remember something about all spiders being hatched with three claws on their legs, but with theraphosid tarantulas only retaining two while the third disappears during the first few instars. Can anyone who has a copy of Foelix handy try to find that passage and report back?

Or, where else might I have read something about that?

And, any of you who are incubating eggs in artificial incubators might examine the babies as they hatch and through the first few instars to see if that's true. Good photos would be greatly appreciated as well!

 

[Scourge]

Some info from Steve:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=59559&highlight=tarsal+claws

 

[jr47]

Thank's, I knew I had seen something on the subject. now all I need to do is find something more recent. Which will be easier with some where to start. I was about to try typeing in three clawed tarantula.
Interesting reading.

 

[phormingochilus]

Hi Pikaia ;-)

I think you are approaching the subject upside down ;-) The fact that many of the araneomorphs has evolved to use the three claws (and a lot of auxillary supporting hairs) for maneuvering silk more easily tell us nothing about the properties or the likelyhood of three claws in mygalomorphs or in any other spider. It only tell us that some spiders as adults do have three tarsal claws and others only two, and that there is a tendency to loose the third median claw during ontogenesis in many of the mygalomorphs. As a matter of fact there are many tarantulas that do have three tarsal claws (armed or unarmed). The interesting is that usually there is a anterior/posterior graduation which Raven has pointed out before. This mean that usually when a tarantula do have three tarsal claws the tarsus/tarsi with the three claws are usually the most posterior ones. So the "news" in this case is that the spider has three claws on each leg - which points to a very plesiomorph or ancient constellation. So such a spider could tell us a lot about which other characters could be assumed to be plesiomorphic so to make it easier to sift out the plesiomorphies and only look at the apomorphies. Something very valuable in a phylogenetic analysis.

Regards
Søren

 

[T_DORKUS]

Hi Pikaia ;-)

I think you are approaching the subject upside down ;-) The fact that many of the araneomorphs has evolved to use the three claws (and a lot of auxillary supporting hairs) for maneuvering silk more easily tell us nothing about the properties or the likelyhood of three claws in mygalomorphs or in any other spider. It only tell us that some spiders as adults do have three tarsal claws and others only two, and that there is a tendency to loose the third median claw during ontogenesis in many of the mygalomorphs. As a matter of fact there are many tarantulas that do have three tarsal claws (armed or unarmed). The interesting is that usually there is a anterior/posterior graduation which Raven has pointed out before. This mean that usually when a tarantula do have three tarsal claws the tarsus/tarsi with the three claws are usually the most posterior ones. So the "news" in this case is that the spider has three claws on each leg - which points to a very plesiomorph or ancient constellation. So such a spider could tell us a lot about which other characters could be assumed to be plesiomorphic so to make it easier to sift out the plesiomorphies and only look at the apomorphies. Something very valuable in a phylogenetic analysis.

Regards
Søren

Dang Søren- speak English! ;P
j/k
Do you always talk like that? All those words with more than three syllables is so hard to understand for simple minded folk like me!

 

[phormingochilus]

Hi T-dorkus

There actually some uses of the 3+ syllable words - this subject is one of them ;-) When you wish to do more than to chit-chat about your rosie - let's say - when you wish to investigate the relationships of different groups of spiders. Then first of all you need to aquire a whole terminology in order to investigate, reckognise and describe the characters and principles you are investigating. It's not very different from having to learn the rules of any given game to be able to play or learning to speak foreign languages in order to communicate with foreigners ;-).

When we discuss the relevance of a news break with a tarantula with three tarsal claws you need to relate this to some sort of context. The context in this case is phylogeny - or evolutionary relationships. Or more precisely how to categorize and utilize this piece of news. If you fail to do this you do no more than echoing the headlines without understanding the relevance. In order to use this piece of news to anything you need to use the phylogenetic terminology. If not - we can just stand back in awe of the disconnected fact that there is a tarantula with three spines on each legs. And so what?

Maybe the approach is to be constructively puzzled and search up on all those words that eludes one's understanding. In this way you might actually learn something less trivial from these boards? ;-)

Regards
Søren

 

[MizM]

Maybe the approach is to be constructively puzzled and search up on all those words that eludes one's understanding. In this way you might actually learn something less trivial from these boards? ;-)

Regards
Søren

This is what I do, and YES, I learned a few thing from reading Soren's one post. The scientific language and concise explanations encourage me to look further to understand what he's referring to. (Sorry Soren, I don't know how to type the slash/o in your name on a PC, only on a Mac!!)

 

[T_DORKUS]

Hi T-dorkus

There actually some uses of the 3+ syllable words - this subject is one of them ;-) When you wish to do more than to chit-chat about your rosie - let's say - when you wish to investigate the relationships of different groups of spiders. Then first of all you need to aquire a whole terminology in order to investigate, reckognise and describe the characters and principles you are investigating. It's not very different from having to learn the rules of any given game to be able to play or learning to speak foreign languages in order to communicate with foreigners ;-).

When we discuss the relevance of a news break with a tarantula with three tarsal claws you need to relate this to some sort of context. The context in this case is phylogeny - or evolutionary relationships. Or more precisely how to categorize and utilize this piece of news. If you fail to do this you do no more than echoing the headlines without understanding the relevance. In order to use this piece of news to anything you need to use the phylogenetic terminology. If not - we can just stand back in awe of the disconnected fact that there is a tarantula with three spines on each legs. And so what?

Maybe the approach is to be constructively puzzled and search up on all those words that eludes one's understanding. In this way you might actually learn something less trivial from these boards? ;-)

Regards
Søren

LOL. I was just teasing you Søren. I did not expect you to take the time to set me straight. BTW I did look up those annoying 3+ syllable words though I doubt I'll ever get to use that knowledge again.

 

[Stan Schultz]

... (Sorry Soren, I don't know how to type the slash/o in your name on a PC, only on a Mac!!)

You have two options:

1. In a general way, search in your Windows directory tree for charmap.exe. Create a link to it on your desktop or wherever you'd like it. (Right-click the file name and drag it someplace else. Release the mouse button and then choose the "Create Shortcut" option on the resulting menu.)

To use it, click the link you just made. Search through the resulting table for the character you want. Click it, then click "Select," then "Copy." Go back to whatever document you're working in (e.g., the reply-to-thread-box on the AB site) and press <Ctrl>V. Voilà!

2. Or, in this specific instance, merely copy and paste his name from his posting.

BTW, after all these years of trading insults, jokes and tarantula info on this and other forums with Søren, I'm still not entirely sure that Søren is a guy, especially since the name doesn't translate into anything readily recognizable in English and there's no way to tell by looking at the person. If I'm making a terrible mistake, tell me now!

And, the reason that he seems to talk funny is that he really does. He's a Dane (from Denmark) and English is a second language for him. Don't let that fool you though. He knows more about tarantulas than most professional arachnologists! :worship:

 

[jr47]

Thanks, I actually think I understood most of that. Will have to read it again after I look up a few words.

 

[phormingochilus]

BTW, after all these years of trading insults, jokes and tarantula info on this and other forums with Søren, I'm still not entirely sure that Søren is a guy, especially since the name doesn't translate into anything readily recognizable in English and there's no way to tell by looking at the person. If I'm making a terrible mistake, tell me now!

LOL ;-) Not a terribly one, but a very understandable one. As Denmark historically is the connecting point of Northern Europe with Scandinavia and also between Eastern Europe and UK our language root is basically a mish-mash of words with ancient german, english and scandinavian roots. Thus Søren is an obscuration of the name severin/severinus which is in fact masculine and meaning "the severe" add to this my last name Rafn which is of icelandic origin meaning Raven and my entire name is not for the faint-hearted LOL.

And, the reason that he seems to talk funny is that he really does. He's a Dane (from Denmark) and English is a second language for him. Don't let that fool you though. He knows more about tarantulas than most professional arachnologists! :worship:

Yes - danish language has never been renowned for being beautiful - more like monotomous and guttural - we're basically cavemen LOL. Thanks for the worships Stan - but you are not exactly a newcomer in this hobby neither ;-) I knew nothing when I bought your book many years ago as a young hobbyists - still don't know much about most tarantulas except for a small group of obscure asian tarantulas - but have gained considerably in terminology and method through this study which luckily can be applied to most spiders and in fact to many living organisms ;-)

So I can only recommend to get on with the multisyllable letters and the meanings behind - it's really rewarding ;-)

Regards
Søren

 

[MizM]

You have two options:

1. In a general way, search in your Windows directory tree for charmap.exe. Create a link to it on your desktop or wherever you'd like it. (Right-click the file name and drag it someplace else. Release the mouse button and then choose the "Create Shortcut" option on the resulting menu.)

To use it, click the link you just made. Search through the resulting table for the character you want. Click it, then click "Select," then "Copy." Go back to whatever document you're working in (e.g., the reply-to-thread-box on the AB site) and press <Ctrl>V. Voilà!

2. Or, in this specific instance, merely copy and paste his name from his posting.

BTW, after all these years of trading insults, jokes and tarantula info on this and other forums with Søren, I'm still not entirely sure that Søren is a guy, especially since the name doesn't translate into anything readily recognizable in English and there's no way to tell by looking at the person. If I'm making a terrible mistake, tell me now!

And, the reason that he seems to talk funny is that he really does. He's a Dane (from Denmark) and English is a second language for him. Don't let that fool you though. He knows more about tarantulas than most professional arachnologists! :worship:

:worship: Thank you Stan!! I thought about copy/paste AFTER I posted, but I have now learned another thing from this thread and won't need copy/paste anymore!!

I wouldn't necessarily say he talks funny, Volker and Martin talk funny too, but it's a charming funny!! At least from a lady's point of view.