Thoughts on this video? (Tarantula Training)

[gabrieldezzi]

I came across this video in my YouTube recommended today that I thought was very interesting. It depicts a keeper trying to teach his tarantula, Elvis, to mimic desired behavior via "negative punishment." The keeper withholds food from the T during feeding until it displays the desired behaviors. What do we think of this as a concept? As intelligent as T's are, and their ability to understand and replicate patterns; do you think that this is worthwhile? I for one still think this is unnecessary, as domestication of tarantulas is virtually impossible at their current biological state, as well as difficult as they act mainly on instinct.

What are you guys' thoughts on this? I am very open to interpretation along with learning what may be going on behind the scenes.

Video here.

 

[Brewser]

Ivan Petrovich Pavlov did similar successful experiments using rewards, of course He used Canis lupis familiaris as His Test Subject.
Pavlovian Conditioning Response

 

[viper69]

There’s no accounting for stupidity. They have evolved just fine without human help.

 

[spideyspinneret78]

Mimic desired behavior? Does the guy even realize that tarantulas have very poor eyesight? Sounds ridiculous.

Now, it has been documented that tarantulas have a limited ability to make simple associations and learn very basic things. In the book Spider Behavior, Flexibility and Versatility, an experiment is discussed where a group of A. chalcodes were trained to to raise their legs to avoid a brief electric shock (Punzo, 1988). Tarantulas can also learn a very simple maze (a 'T' style maze) in order to get a reward. This is discussed further in the book. Several other arthropods performed similarly.

But we need to see tarantulas for what they are. Extremely efficient ambush predators that have a limited ability to learn but operate mainly through instinct.

 

[kingshockey]

only a matter of time until there is a post help me to train my t

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I want a tarantula that can make me a drink . .. atleast they don’t need excercise like a dog ???

A 3 year experiment

"My tarantula recognizes me, my tarantula recognizes my voice, he walks up to me when I come" These are some of the most ridiculous things I've read people claim on social media about their tarantulas. These claims irritated me so bad that I conducted a little experiment. 3 years ago, March...

arachnoboards.com

 

[Tentacle Toast]

How righteous would it be if you could train them to drum along to guitar riffs?

 

[Brewser]

How righteous would it be if you could train them to drum along to guitar riffs?

David Bowie did it with Spiders from Mars

 

[viper69]

How righteous would it be if you could train them to drum along to guitar riffs?

Or just attack, kill and eat my neighbors.

 

[Gevo]

What do we think of this as a concept? As intelligent as T's are, and their ability to understand and replicate patterns; do you think that this is worthwhile? I for one still think this is unnecessary, as domestication of tarantulas is virtually impossible at their current biological state, as well as difficult as they act mainly on instinct.

What are you guys' thoughts on this? I am very open to interpretation along with learning what may be going on behind the scenes.

Video here.

In no particular order
- There doesn't seem to be any harm being done here, but I don't know how extensive this person's experimentation is or what their motives are. This person seems to have a lot of videos around this.

- Curiosity is valid, and amateur science has a place and isn't a bad thing if done ethically. Our community relies on informal experimentation of sorts, with people supporting each other with their years of experience.

- Ethics should always be our community's top concern. Invertebrates aren't usually covered by animal welfare laws or, if they are included at all, they are only minimally protected, so experimentation with them is always dicey and without clear guidelines, boundaries, and oversight, and I think the community needs to work to set the standard in the absence of legal routes. I'm not comfortable supporting a culture of random experimentation where people are rewarded for intentionally using their tarantulas as test subjects. Too many people out there will cause harm doing that, whether maliciously or ignorantly.

- Such experiments are not of real value if they're not done within an appropriate and formalized design, control, analysis, and dissemination structure, but they do nonetheless embolden people who don't know how to do research or listen to experts.

- I think we need to ask ourselves why we keep wanting to find out how smart or trainable tarantulas are. Would it change the way we keep them? Would it help us with conservation efforts? Would it assist in making the case for them to be included in animal welfare legislation? In this case, the positioning of "desirable behaviour" is used, but what is a desirable behaviour for a tarantula? Here, it seems to be to make the tarantula less aggressive when taking down prey. Who is that desirable for? Is it good for the tarantula to teach it to have a less intense feeding response? We already know that tarantulas can react to stimuli and modify behaviour to environmental conditions, so what does this further? Proper inquiry would position all of that.

 

[Tentacle Toast]

Or just attack, kill and eat my neighbors.

Yes, THIS..
A kill team of P metallicas, at your call. Now THAT'S where I'd keep em' communally; they'd do the job of weeding out the weakest amongst them for you, plus ensuring that they'd all remain battle ready, & on their guard. Keep a few separately to train on beating on out the war drumming..holy moly, think about it...just send one over one as a warning, then if further violations of the NAP occur, RELEASE THE HOUNDS, & pitch their webbed carcasses drained of blood on stakes along the street to serve as warning to the next batch of inconsiderate [EDIT] that think it's alright to steal the roses that happened to grow on "their" side of the fence. That way, you won't even have to kill their kids...

 

[viper69]

Yes, THIS..
A kill team of P metallicas, at your call. Now THAT'S where I'd keep em' communally; they'd do the job of weeding out the weakest amongst them for you, plus ensuring that they'd all remain battle ready, & on their guard. Keep a few separately to train on beating on out the war drumming..holy moly, think about it...just send one over one as a warning, then if further violations of the NAP occur, RELEASE THE HOUNDS, & pitch their webbed carcasses drained of blood on stakes along the street to serve as warning to the next batch of inconsiderate [EDIT] that think it's alright to steal the roses that happened to grow on "their" side of the fence. That way, you won't even have to kill their kids...

Kids have to go as well- they will been taught bad things, and have their stupidity genes too. It’s a slash and burn approach for me. You, your family, your friends all of it

 

[Tentacle Toast]

Kids have to go as well- they will been taught bad things, and have their stupidity genes too. It’s a slash and burn approach for me. You, your family, your friends all of it

Kill the males, & make concubines of the females (when they're of age, of course). Having them denude the bones of their fathers for windchimes will ensure their loyalty...

 

[viper69]

Kill the males, & make concubines of the females (when they're of age, of course). Having them denude the bones of their fathers for windchimes will ensure their loyalty...

Never waste raw materials. Sounds like something out of the old series Channel Zero

 

[Tentacle Toast]

Never heard of it, but that's what I'm readying myself for during the inevitable balkanization of the US...

...And yes, there WILL be concubines...

 

[TheraMygale]

You know what, i didnt see the video. Maybe there was no link or it didnt work for me.

i just read it all and i saw “negative”. That was it for me.

didnt read the posts after.

i wouldnt watch anything that had negative reinforcement.

 

[gabrieldezzi]

In no particular order
- There doesn't seem to be any harm being done here, but I don't know how extensive this person's experimentation is or what their motives are. This person seems to have a lot of videos around this.

- Curiosity is valid, and amateur science has a place and isn't a bad thing if done ethically. Our community relies on informal experimentation of sorts, with people supporting each other with their years of experience.

- Ethics should always be our community's top concern. Invertebrates aren't usually covered by animal welfare laws or, if they are included at all, they are only minimally protected, so experimentation with them is always dicey and without clear guidelines, boundaries, and oversight, and I think the community needs to work to set the standard in the absence of legal routes. I'm not comfortable supporting a culture of random experimentation where people are rewarded for intentionally using their tarantulas as test subjects. Too many people out there will cause harm doing that, whether maliciously or ignorantly.

- Such experiments are not of real value if they're not done within an appropriate and formalized design, control, analysis, and dissemination structure, but they do nonetheless embolden people who don't know how to do research or listen to experts.

- I think we need to ask ourselves why we keep wanting to find out how smart or trainable tarantulas are. Would it change the way we keep them? Would it help us with conservation efforts? Would it assist in making the case for them to be included in animal welfare legislation? In this case, the positioning of "desirable behaviour" is used, but what is a desirable behaviour for a tarantula? Here, it seems to be to make the tarantula less aggressive when taking down prey. Who is that desirable for? Is it good for the tarantula to teach it to have a less intense feeding response? We already know that tarantulas can react to stimuli and modify behaviour to environmental conditions, so what does this further? Proper inquiry would position all of that.

Excellent response, and I agree with it completely. Thank you for this, honestly.

I am never not impressed by the tarantula community's ability to truly understand their areas of expertise, and my time on this forum only proves it more each and every day.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

A coworker of mine told me he wouldn’t come to my house because he was scared I’d “sick my spiders on him”. He’s afraid we’d have beers, he’d pass out and wake up with spiders on his face and he wouldn’t be able to move. I said, I’d never do that to my spiders. He said, “…to your spiders, ey?” I just looked at him.

 

[TheraMygale]

You like to drink. Or not

Its not ey its eh 🫣

yeah. Thats what i sherlocked from that.

Your coworker has low self esteem.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Its not ey its eh 🫣

Whenever I read “eh”, I hear it like “meh” minus the “m”…like the sound a teenager makes when you ask them if they like something, but “ey” is like “hey” and “vey”! To me at least. ;-)