Theraphosa spp. hybridization

[Kieron2626123]

Okay one day I’ll try it due to this thread for my own proof

 

[esa space station]

No one is disputing that there are two variants of T.blondi, I think that was made pretty clear earlier. However, you two are claiming that there are natural hybrids out in the wild, point being...any real evidence to back this up, or are these just assumptions due to their geographical overlap?

I thank you for that calm deep methodical thinking as always i would sumise due to their boundarys overlapping in fact id be.sure about but in the face of science i dont have photograhic proof so id say its a tangible theory

...and you just lost the tiny bit of credibility you had. If your critical thinking skills are so poor as to believe in Bigfoot, then you simply can't be a reliable source for information.

Oh here we go ! Have you heard of phd dr jeffrey meldrum or todd standing watch on utube and learn its a hobby of mine as i have many now if u beleive in real science like these do u will expand your outlook on life and not make barmy accusations lol!that was attempt at.sarcasm i believe in science wich is why i keep an open mind.

...and you just lost the tiny bit of credibility you had. If your critical thinking skills are so poor as to believe in Bigfoot, then you simply can't be a reliable source for information.

WHat are u on about tiny bit of credability i dont have authority and neither do you .my thinking skills are excellent il have you know and i dont have to go out of my way to prove my point .i can speak and read in another language on this subject for my own advancement i dont have to humour anyone and no need to question my credability thanks im exp keeper many many years and not some moron

...and you just lost the tiny bit of credibility you had. If your critical thinking skills are so poor as to believe in Bigfoot, then you simply can't be a reliable source for information.

The quote about bigfoot btw was to nightstalker 47 f all to do with you as heres from canada wich is infamous for them for good reason if u looked on u tube or slyvanic.com more of light hearted nature than anything

 

[cold blood]

@boina ,

Thanks for the post, saved me some typing.

I would like to add to it...namely how/why geographical variants occur.

These variants occur when one species, covering a large geographical area, has populations become isolated by natural barriers....we are talking mountain ranges, fast flowing rivers, and to a lesser extent, large lakes and gorges.

Once isolated, each isolated group then evolves independently over time, and because this evolution isn't the same, you get slight variances over time with each isolated group. S. America is littered with such geographical barriers, leaving potential hybrid zones to be either very small or non existent.

it's important to note, that this same isolation also prevents hybridization of these variants on anything but a minor insignificant scale. If they were breeding together naturally, there wouldn't be variants, we would just see one example in nature....variants exist because geographical isolation keeps them apart from others and allows each variant to slowly evolve independently.


It's also important to note, that in nature, hybridization, while real, is also very very uncommon, even among species that aren't separated geographically. Far less common than many believe and often speculate.

It's been implied a few times in this thread that "natural" or unnatural hybridization can or will result in eventual new species. This notion is false. This is not how species are created.

 

[Greasylake]

by natural barriers....we are talking mountain ranges, fast flowing rivers, and to a lesser extent, large lakes and gorges.

French Guinea has multiple rivers, it seems quite plausible that those rivers are the barrier that allowed the different color forms to come about. I don't know the distributions of these Ts so I can't say for sure if this is the case, but it does seem plausible to me. Tarantulas can swim, but I don't think enough of them would be willing to cross those rivers to keep the populations from starting to split, and the rivers look wide enough that I'm not even sure a Theraphosa would be able to cross them at all.

 

[Andrea82]

Thanks @boina and @cold blood for clearing this up, i genuinely thought I was going mad or had a complete language burn out or something...

@esa space station I refer you to boina's post. And you learned a new language just to expand your mind? I'm Dutch. I am fluent in English, can get my point across in French and German, and momentarily studying Icelandic just so I can read the freakin Edda for myself. I've buried myself in Theraphosidae stuff, and venturing out into reptiles. This summer, I'm going to learn how to lead a pack of unruly boy and girl scouts with special needs. I work in mental health care in a crisis unit. I have a husband with MS and a daughter with special needs as well. I paint, and learn history for fun.

Expand my mind you say? If I expand any more I'll freakin explode.

Quit with the condescension. It is not warranted by any of my posts, and it is definitely not helping to get your point across.

 

[esa space station]

Thanks @boina and @cold blood for clearing this up, i genuinely thought I was going mad or had a complete language burn out or something...

@esa space station I refer you to boina's post. And you learned a new language just to expand your mind? I'm Dutch. I am fluent in English, can get my point across in French and German, and momentarily studying Icelandic just so I can read the freakin Edda for myself. I've buried myself in Theraphosidae stuff, and venturing out into reptiles. This summer, I'm going to learn how to lead a pack of unruly boy and girl scouts with special needs. I work in mental health care in a crisis unit. I have a husband with MS and a daughter with special needs as well. I paint, and learn history for fun.

Expand my mind you say? If I expand any more I'll freakin explode.

Quit with the condescension. It is not warranted by any of my posts, and it is definitely not helping to get your point across.

I feel i made my point adequately enough in what i was explaining (i wasnt actually venturing into the realms of hybridisation)and so further more have nothing to add i hope that this clears up any confusion.

Incide

Thanks @boina and @cold blood for clearing this up, i genuinely thought I was going mad or had a complete language burn out or something...

@esa space station I refer you to boina's post. And you learned a new language just to expand your mind? I'm Dutch. I am fluent in English, can get my point across in French and German, and momentarily studying Icelandic just so I can read the freakin Edda for myself. I've buried myself in Theraphosidae stuff, and venturing out into reptiles. This summer, I'm going to learn how to lead a pack of unruly boy and girl scouts with special needs. I work in mental health care in a crisis unit. I have a husband with MS and a daughter with special needs as well. I paint, and learn history for fun.

Expand my mind you say? If I expand any more I'll freakin explode.

Quit with the condescension. It is not warranted by any of my posts, and it is definitely not helping to get your point across.

Incidentally boinas post is word perfect and so as i recall i was as i say explaining about t blondi variants i wasnt going on about hybrids or creating one in error i might have made a speculative guess it seems explaining something namely as regards naturally occuring hybrids wich in hindsight yes might have been somewhat flawed that is it thanks

 

[Patherophis]

But there has been reports of hybrids....
For one Suriname and Venezuela Blondi have hairs on top of femurs like apophysis ? Right so there’s deffo a mix between

You think that hybrids can be reliably identified by one morfological feature?

 

[esa space station]

E

You think that hybrids can be reliably identified by one morfological feature?

Xcept of course where upon a species has been.discovered by science and had to be re classified as its applicability would be called into question due to being already classified once and so the latin appropiation would become confusing in the synonymous sense so in order to avoid confusion the genus had to renamed as two scientic names denote the same thing.bennetts(n.l platnick the international.rules or zoological nomenclature(33.31)so either a species exists(not yet known to science or other possibilitys exist wich are various

 

[Patherophis]

E Xcept of course where upon a species has been.discovered by science and had to be re classified as its applicability would be called into question due to being already classified once and so the latin appropiation would become confusing in the synonymous sense so in order to avoid confusion the genus had to renamed as two scientic names denote the same thing.bennetts(n.l platnick the international.rules or zoological nomenclature(33.31)so either a species exists(not yet known to science or other possibilitys exist wich are various

Sorry man, I have no idea what are You trying to say.

There is no article 33.31 in the Code, do You mean 33.3.1?

 

[esa space station]

Yes thats correct i know its wordy but i find it of some interest as regards morphological differences.as we know t stirmi was nt classiefied to science until 2010 rudolf&weinmann i believe and both theraphosa stirmi and blondi have had a lot of confusion in the past .also noteworthy was tinter 1991 pseudotheraphosa apophysis wich had to be reclassified to avoid confusion etc.im left wondering if an unknown species (unclassified to science)might exist

 

[boina]

I thank you for that calm deep methodical thinking as always i would sumise due to their boundarys overlapping in fact id be.sure about but in the face of science i dont have photograhic proof so id say its a tangible theory

No it's not. A species is defined as: a goup of animals that under natural circumstances will not hybridize. If they do hybridize in nature they would be, by definition, the same species and we wouldn't see these clearly defined two species. Being in the same area does not mean they will hybridize, even if they theoretically could, which has yet to be proven. There may, and most likely will, be genetical and/or morphological and/or behavioural barriers that created those two species to begin with.

I'd say it's a biological impossibility.

 

[esa space station]

No it's not. A species is defined as: a goup of animals that under natural circumstances will not hybridize. If they do hybridize in nature they would be, by definition, the same species and we wouldn't see these clearly defined two species. Being in the same area does not mean they will hybridize, even if they theoretically could, which has yet to be proven. There may, and most likely will, be genetical and/or morphological and/or behavioural barriers that created those two species to begin with.

I'd say it's a biological impossibility.

It does seem so that it would be a biological impossibility
I was in hindsight trying to point out that as we know over the years theraphosa both blondi and stirmi have been mislabeled etc that is the short version of what i tryed to put across.im quite interested in morphological differences and natural barriers but also wondered as i know t blondi has a stunt double in a fabled 1990 s documentary(yes a team of scientists inadvertantly filmed more than one spider)i refer of course to 1993 predators of the wild survival anglia.if there are more theraphosa species waiting to be discovered .my reason being it happened in 1993 before t stirmi was classified and known to science officially in 2010.id already had this conversation with abother member Who viewed said footage i thought it would have some relevance here thru cohegent reasoning if ANYONE WANT S TO CHECK AND CONFIRM it s called PREDATORS OF THE WILD /GIANT TARANATULA 1993 special advisor Rick c west .shot using table top photography

 

[Kieron2626123]

Thing is to put a stop to all this is somone that true to hybrid them simples.