Theraphosa ID

[Brian S]

I still don't understand. On their site they said they bred them and got two sacs from three females. I am pretty sure this is not the first round of breeding they did with them ether. So your female in the picture was the first in the US?

Ryan, If these are being brought in by exporters ther is really no way of knowing who all has these. We might be onto something here

 

[Brian S]

I wish I had those skills too. So how can you tell a blondi female from this maybe "new" female? I get the male differences but I can't find anything on female differences.

According to Jacobi and Co about the only difference is the light colored feet of this "so called" burgundy spider when they are young spiderlings

 

[Talkenlate04]

Wow ya that complicates things just a little.

 

[GailC]

I wrote to Micheal Jacobi before I got my sling, asked him of anyone was working on getting this species described. He assured me that two entomologist are working on this, so hopefully we will get an answer in the near future.

 

[Talkenlate04]

I wrote to Micheal Jacobi before I got my sling, asked him of anyone was working on getting this species described. He assured me that two entomologist are working on this, so hopefully we will get an answer in the near future.

That was the same info I got from them almost two years go. Who knows when the wait will end.

 

[tarcan]

Brian,

You asked me my opinion, but unfortunatly, I do not have much to say...

It is interesting that this surfaces, in 2004 I bred "T. blondi"

I was "shocked" and quite surprised to say the least to obtain this as slings:

I did not really know what to think of it. I assumed I had produced (unintentionnally) some hybrids between T. apophysis and T. blondi. I checked back on the male that I had in alcohol and it had no tibial apophysis. The female "looked" T. blondi... I am no taxonomist, cannot say much about it anyway.

The female came from an import I had done from the US. Was WC, so should be Guyana. There are only two sources of legal commercial exports of "T. blondi" and that would be Guyana and Suriname, but Suriname is much less common. I do not remember of the source of the male.

It is all I can say unfortunatly.

Martin

 

[tarcan]

picture of the female that produced my sac

 

[Brian S]

Thanks for your input anyway Martin.
The more I think about this the more I wonder what we have in the hobby LOL

 

[Philth]

I have 2 adult female T.blondi that always looked a little different to me. The most major differance that stands out is the long hair on the patella of one female that the other lacks.

Female 1 lacking long hair on the patella (looks similar to Taranutlas.com female & Martin's to me at least)

Female 2 much "fuzzier" look, with long hairs on the patella

Im not claiming some major discovery, just pointing out a differance on two blondi that I have no import history on. (Although female 2 has ben in my collection a long time)

A guy here on Long Island produced some pink-footed T.blondi some years back. As Martins post pointed out they've ben around for years. If it is in fact a 3rd Theraphosa sp., I wouldnt be suprised if they have already ben mixed with T. blondi stock in the U.S.

Later, Tom

 

[Talkenlate04]

The carapace looks pretty different to me as well. Like it has more curves and is wider and flatter. Maybe I am seeing things.

 

[Brian S]

We obviously need someone with some taxonomy skills to look into this. We ALL may need to relabel our specimens! For now I am gonna call my new slings Theraphosa sp (Guyana) until this gets sorted out

 

[pandinus]

dang brian you always seem to fall into awesome finds dont ya


John

 

[Brian S]

dang brian you always seem to fall into awesome finds dont ya


John

LOL!
I am not sure if we can call this "awesome" just yet but I am wondering what we really have in the hobby now LOL

Geez! I knew I should have stuck with only scorpions!

 

[CodeWilster]

Theraphosa burgablondinoapophysis

Just found this thread and looks like fun stuff Anyway jeez hopefully this doesn't turn into the Cyriopagopus/Lampropelma (or is it Haplopelma now?) mess. I'm starting to wonder what I've got. I currently own three "blondi"s. I bought a blondi from Botar about this time last year as a sling. It had the pale brown/pink feet though. She's about 5" now and the pretty feet are gone. I could only find T. apophysis info so that's what I labeled her. My pet store then got a monster WC female in that I snatched up last year also. This year they got in a wildcaught mature male (got him) and I've already bred him with my female. She had molted fairly recently and was dark, and this male is very orange/cinnamony. He has no tibial hooks just like Mr. Jacobi's website describes a mature male blondi or "burgandy" lacking the apophysis. I guess I better post a pic. So anybody know what I've got? (male is the orange one, sorry for the small pic but I had to shrink it) Note that under normal light he does not look as orange, however no matter what light my female is (both before and after the molt) much darker.
Also came to mind, couldn't these guys then hybridize in the wild since they are all found in Guyana anyway?

 

[GailC]

We obviously need someone with some taxonomy skills to look into this. We ALL may need to relabel our specimens! For now I am gonna call my new slings Theraphosa sp (Guyana) until this gets sorted out

I wrote to Rick West awhile back to ask his opinion on this, he hasn't had any experience with this "new" species and said he would need a deceased adult specimen to study. If anyone has a deceased adult, it might be worth it to contact Rick and see if he would want to take this study on.

For now, I've labled mine Theraphosa sp "burgundy"

 

[tarcan]

Tom, thank you for sharing this, I find it to be extremely interesting.

Of course, we need a big sample to see if this is consistant, but it is a start. A little bit like being able to distinguish between X. immanis long hair and short hair, which is crucial to breeding the species.

Unfortunatly, we need to be sure of the sources. Also, might have to do with age of the specimens, but you say both of your females has been in your collection for many years and this has been always consistant? Were they both full adults when you got them or they went through a little bit of growing up?

The second picture I posted of my female was when she was freshly molted, so in her case, it cannot be attributed for a need of a molt at least and the lack of hair on the patellas is clearly seen.

BTW, out of curiosity, I went through all my pictures of T. blondi I took on the field in French Guiana and they ALL have fuzz on the patella... interesting.

Anyhow, thank you once more for sharing this

Martin

 

[Merfolk]

I am the proud owner of one of Mart's specimens from 2004, which I bought not that long after he wrote here worrying he might had created hybrids. I found that they looked special and absolutely wanted one whatever they were. I got it in Dec 2006, it was like 2"+....

My big girl just molted to 9" and I noticed that she is not very hairy if you compare to the fuzzy ones posted here. We took pics but my camera is total crap and blurs things.

 

[Philth]

Hi Martin,

Female 2 (the fuzzy one) I got as an Adult in 2002. Female 1 I got in 2006 as an adult female. Not much has changed with them. The hair on the patella has ben consistant since I got them, evan after a molt. ( both pics I posted are from fairly recent molts.)

I agree that many more would need to be sampled with accurate knowledge of the spiders background. It would seem to simple if long hair on the patella is the key to differentiating two sp.(just figured I'd throw it out there) I wish I knew where my females came from.

Later, Tom

 

[CodeWilster]

Fine doesn't look like anybody cares about my post but I'll get over it. I have another question though. After all, Jacobi is selling these guys as BURGANDY birdeaters. All I see in all this talk is stuff about tibial apophysis, pink tarsus and metatarsus in juves, setae, etc. Yeah that's definitley being analytical of this science but what about the color of these guys? Aren't they supposed to be a different color as adults too?

"Adult specimens are huge, heavy-bodied and have a post-molt color of rich burgundy-brown with distinctive reddish hairs on legs and abdomen post-molt." (Michael Jacobi, http://tarantulas.com/guyana_goliath.html)

 

[Brian S]

Fine doesn't look like anybody cares about my post but I'll get over it. I have another question though. After all, Jacobi is selling these guys as BURGANDY birdeaters. All I see in all this talk is stuff about tibial apophysis, pink tarsus and metatarsus in juves, setae, etc. Yeah that's definitley being analytical of this science but what about the color of these guys? Aren't they supposed to be a different color as adults too?

"Adult specimens are huge, heavy-bodied and have a post-molt color of rich burgundy-brown with distinctive reddish hairs on legs and abdomen post-molt." (Michael Jacobi, http://tarantulas.com/guyana_goliath.html)

Code, In taxonomic terms color means absolutely nothing I assure you. Taxonomists do NOT identify or describe a species based on color. They go into alot more detail than that, they look at setae, stridulating organs etc. And yes it is possible that they could hybridize where their native range overlaps IF they inhabit the same habitat. For instance they could inhabit different elevations etc and not ever meet in the wild. Most of us do not know the specifics in the habitat where both species overlap if indeed are a separate species! Taxonomy is always changing it seems. Since I have been in the hobby I have seen numerous changes especially in the scorpion genus Hottentotta.
I hope that helps you out some. I am not the best in the world at explaining issues such as this afterall I am not a taxonomist, I am just a pee-on ameatur hobbyist that attempts to make sense of all this