The unsung species & genera of Theraphosidae?

sjl197

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
240
Well, if certain 'taxonomists' had described/named new species WITH DETAILED DESCRIPTIONS + QUALITY DRAWINGS/PHOTOS after examining BOTH sexes FROM A SINGLE LOCALITY ... AND NAMED THAT TYPE LOCALITY .....well. ... we might know some alot better !! In the deep past, like the 1800's some of this is excusable, as its difficult to exactly name a locality you found the specimen at after weeks sailing up the amazon, but in the modern age with modern technology... well its not excusable.

What i like is many of the American issues track back to Ralph Chamberlin, to which (amongst others) i'd gladly add
'Aphonopelma' stoicum (Chamberlin, 1925)
Aphonopelma latens (Chamberlin, 1917)
'Aphonopelma' aberrans (Chamberlin, 1917), etc.. Get the idea?

In part i'd agree with 'Earth Tiger' on some points that [too] much is devoted to tigers or other bigger animals with spines (im sure i read there are more captive tigers in California than their are supposed to be in india these days..), and much to hunt down these critters is like Crytozoology.. and while frustrating at times, thats actually makes it fun, enjoyable and challenging to me (and others i'd guess)!

I'd disagree on some of those Chinese species, when the Zhu and Zhang 2008 paper does very detailed descriptions, and for example with S.jiafu when the male is transfered from huwenum they give a locality with GPS, then nominate a female alotype from the same location .. I do see that they dont give that locality in much detail (and the GPS is for a huge area), but i'd like to guess this might have been done to protect the locality from pettrade collectors. Unless it was, as seems for many vague 'type localities' of Brachypelma first collected BY pettraders, which do actually seem purposely wrong (?maybe to protect the site from exploitaton by rival pettraders), or by 'taxonomists' who never even visited the country, let alone questioned the vague location data the collectors gave.... another case in point i suspect is the enigmatic A.borealis..

Anyway, back to the original question. I'd also agree all those factors can play a role in why we dont understand a species/genus. But, i'd say some species going extinct or being super-rare are least useful explanations. Yes, many species have likely been greatly affected by habitat destruction, but really much more commonly, the lack of knowledge is likely a consequence of minimal fieldwork, poor descriptive papers and historical confusion. The world has changed radically with the modern international/electronic age. Just think back to the 1800's when for a european to go to the amazon, you'd have to take a steam ship for weeks, then once there go further up river for weeks to a nameless piece of jungle and catch a spider (along with various other random creatures), which then dont really preserve well in the bottles of low quality rum on the lengthy trip back. Then on your return you have a letter waiting on your desk that someone else in another european country museum has named a spider from the amazon, in a really obscure journal, written in lengthy prose in a foreign language. Then consider the 100's of specimens that likely got brought back from each trip, each getting a brief description from someone often not an expert, and almost always without drawings as those were super expensive to put in books papers, and no photographs given as again super expensive...

I'll happily acknowledge that in the modern age its so much easier now to find out about a species or group of species in far distant countries, we can now fly almost everywhere and (sometimes) do safe and lengthy fieldwork. We can collect habitat and ecology data with ease (like climate parameters) and take amazing photographs. Most important we can share all these things quickly with others electronically.. or occasionally also shared in published research papers! It's never been easier for everyone to go into the world and collect valuable data on mystery species.. or any species really!

? Why Avicularia panamensis ... its now Sericopelma panamense, and it looks like many other panamanian Sericopelma. Just that it was a specimen sitting in a jar of alcohol on a museum shelf that no-one bothered to examine for about 100 years..

No-one is going to find out about all such cryptic species by google alone, best way is to get muddy and sandy by revisiting the type localties and turning some big rocks or looking in tree holes !! :) Happy hunting everyone.... oooooohh,, find me M.brevipes too please...
 
Last edited:

Earth Tiger

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 9, 2003
Messages
274
Some good points here. I didn't check the 2008 paper on S. jiafu and I am no zoologist, but the question remains - how valid is the classification? Haplopma huwenum and H. schimdti are probably the same species. Is S. jiafu a synonym of a previously known one, or a subspecies of a known one?
 

GoTerps

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 18, 2003
Messages
2,114
Hello,

1.) Avicularia panamensis
As Stuart mentioned, it's now Sericopelma panamensis. And many of you have this spider, just labeled wrong.

22.) Phormictopus Platus (Dist: Florida Keys, USA???) Many believe this species was either a one-time invader from Cuba (why not call it "native", especially since Cuba is only 90 miles to the south?), or has since gone extinct. Very ambiguous documentation with this one.
Regarding P. platus, see my post HERE.

Take care,
Eric
 

Comatose

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
506
That was an excellent read on P. platus Eric, thanks!

On Phoneysusa lesserti I took a stab at reaching out to a respected arachnocologist and actually heard back. He was aware of two people that have collected this species to preserve dried, and one that was actually sent to him live but died in transit. I'm responding to see if he's willing to share size info.
 

Comatose

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
506
I say we dust off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
 

sjl197

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
240
Thanks for Wisdom Eric!

RE: "Many believe this species was either a one-time invader from Cuba (why not call it "native", especially since Cuba is only 90 miles to the south?), or has since gone extinct" Or consider..as did both Rudloff and Smith, that it doesnt come from 'Tortugas'.

P.platus Chamberlin 1917 collected by JB Holder on 'Tortugas' is another Chamberlin specimen... He is NOT my Hero!

I doubt it was a native of a small fortified island that plenty of ships would have sailed to, for one, Brachypelma aureoceps Chamberlin 1917 also was said to be collected on 'Tortugas' by JB Holder too ...Thanks, RV Chamberlin and JB Holder.. thanks. No tarantulas have been found there since (im led to believe), and i struggle to see a Brachypelma ever being endemic on the island. A single male tarantula being picked up in either Hispanola, Cuba or Mexico and put into a jar of alcohol onboard a ship sailing towards the Tortuga base i can quite easily accept..

On the Phormictopus theme. views on 'Mygale spinicrus' anyone..?

And isnt "Phoneyusa lesserti" currently Anoploscelus? Fieldtrip to Rwanda anyone?
 

Comatose

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
506
And isnt "Phoneyusa lesserti" currently Anoploscelus? Fieldtrip to Rwanda anyone?
Not to my knowledge; they seem to only be from the Central African Republic.

EDIT

So I plugged through the WSC and it looks like you're right, though there's something strange with the type specimen being out of Rwanda; perhaps the species that used to be referred to as P. lesserti is in fact P. belandana? That seems to be the only Theraphosid from that country; I'm going to have to find some time to do some more digging.

EDIT#2

Last edit for now; I did an AB search of the species above and it appears it is quite an impressive beast. I'm going to do more research on the species I know as 'lesserti' and see if perhaps belandana is the real McCoy.
 
Last edited:

sjl197

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
240
or open a copy of Smith, AM (1990c). Baboon spiders: Tarantulas of Africa and the Middle East. London, Fitzgerald, pp. 1-142.

There appears to be two species named 'lesserti', one in Phoneyusa, the other in Anoploscelus.
I was misled because Platnick's 'World Spider catalog' for Anoploscleus says:
f lesserti Laurent, 1946....................Rwanda [urn:lsid:amnh.org:spidersp:001694]
A. l. Laurent, 1946: 301 (D f ).
A. l. Smith, 1990c: 22 (T f from Phoneyusa ).

But in Smith 1990c on page 22, i see nothing about a generic transfer of the described female from Phoneyusa, which is what 'T f' means.

What does this tell us? Well to me its says, As with many of the source publications, Platnick's catalog isnt free from errors either.

P.s. eric, i think there is a better name for the canal zone redblack Sericopelma, but me and a certain scotsman dont aways agree...!
 
Top