The typical don't try this at home type thread

[Mojo Jojo]

Originally posted by Psycho
But to sum things up...my son is so interested in snakes and herps in general and we gave him a chance to experience it first hand...

If your son was interested in cars, would you let him drive your car? NO!

You would probably opt for matchbox, tonka, or a soapbox car -- or something of that nature.

How about a garter snake, a king snake...ball python at the largest?

 

[Lasiodora]

Originally posted by Valael
I still don't see how it's any different than letting the kid play with a pet or stray dog. Just because it's always been nice in the past doesn't mean it might not decide to take a bite one day.

The difference is that the media will not sensationalize a dog bite as much as a snake bite. People come down more on the herp community than cat and dog owners when there is an animal attack. When there is a dog attack some restrictions may be put in place but there would never be a law banning the keeping of cats and dogs set down.

Psycho,
I'm sure that most people who posted here have done so out of concern for the well being of your child and your snake. I know you mentioned that there were adults present when the picture was taken. With that in mind, yes you and your family were there to react quickly if need be, but one thing you should think about (even if the chances are extremely small) is that no one would be able to react fast enough to prevent the snake from striking. Not all snakes strike and hold on. If it is a defensive reaction it will just srtike (sometimes several times). This is enough to seriously injure someone. Again the chances of this happening are very small, but why take a chance. Think about the drama a child would experience from something like that. It may ultimately turn him off to herps. In no way am I telling you what to do. Just giving you somethings to think about. You are an adult and can make your own choices based on what you think is best.
Mike

 

[Psycho]

~~~Psycho~~~

 

[Lasiodora]

You fail to see my point. Yes pit bulls get tons of media attention. You do not see any extremely restricting laws or bans on dog breeds in general when there is a pit bull attack. When there is an incident involving any snake species the whole herp community suffers. Bans are put in place against all snake species. You don't belive me? Well here is something to chew on: All constricting snakes are illegal to own in NYC. This inludes the rosy boa and childrens python (both of which max out at about 3'). Is this ridiculous? Yes! Why the ban on all snakes and not just a particular species? They are not cute mammals. Face it most people dislike and misunderstand reptiles. I guarantee you that a law against a reptile would be put into place faster and harsher than any cat or dog law would. The guy with the visiting python is a bad example because i don't agree with it either. The first snake I was exposed to was a black rat snake and its head was kept away from me and the other kids. It was just as exciting for me to feel the snakes skin this way. Sorry, but I think there are other ways of exposing children to herps.
Mike

 

[Psycho]

~~~Psycho~~~

 

[skinheaddave]

Psycho,

If you want a more realistic idea of what you could do if the burm did grab your kid, I have a little experiment for you.

Get it a slightly larger-than-usual prey item. Feed it the prey item and tug-o-war it so that it evokes a real feeding response. Then get your prey item back. Time yourself.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Psycho]

~~~Psycho~~~

 

[skinheaddave]

Ah well, guess it wasn't a realistic simulation.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Psycho]

lol your funny dave=D


~~~Psycho~~~

 

[Phillip]

The reason people try and point out the potential negative to letting small kids around snakes is not to attack you for doing so nor is it to try and cast any judgement. It is because snakes get a bad enough rep anyway without allowing the opportunity for more bad press ( not to mention the potential harm to the child ) to happen in the 1st place.

Unfortunately there are many keepers who don't take things like this seriously enough and won't do so until more laws are passed and we all have to do without.

Phil

 

[skinheaddave]

Originally posted by Psycho
lol your funny dave=D

I was expecting this type of reaction, but it is not a joke. Unless you have proven that you can deal with a burm of that size in a genuine feeding response, I'd be majorly aprehensive. Given the fact that most pro snake handlers recognize the danger, I don't see how you can be so ignorant.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Wade]

For me, it comes down to weighing the RISK of the likleyhood of something going wrong vs. the CONSEQUENCES of something actually going wrong.

For example, I have 15 years experience with these snakes, but I'm still taking a risk whenever I feed, move my snakes or what have you. My biggest female is 14 feet long and at least 120 pounds. Big enough to easily kill me in the right circumstances. So, I do my best to avoid those circumstances. I feed with long tongs, and if I have to handle her, I avoid lettting her form a loop around my neck. She is not an aggresive snake, and I can predict what she would do 95% of the time, but that other 5% is what can kill you. They have tiny brains, the strike reflex is like a hair trigger, anything can set it off. Not just smells, simple movement near her head can ellicit a strike response. It doesn't matter that I'm way too big for her to actually eat, by the time she figures that out I'd already be dead.

The risk that she could kill me is still there, but I take precautions to limit that risk. To be honest, if I had it to do all over again, I would not get any big snakes. I recently became a father, and for the first time In my life I've actuallly become concerned about the animals I keep being dangerous. The thought of my 7 month old daughter even being near a big burm sends my head swimming just thinking about it. I'm very glad I've been able to create a distict seperation between my families living area and my animals. If not, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night and would have to get rid of that snake.

I will admit that the risk is pretty small that the snake would choose that moment to strike, when the child is left alone briefly with the snake while the picture is taken. The potential CONSEQUENCES if it did, however are horrible beyond comprehesion. The power and speed these snakes demonstrate when feeding gives me chills imagining trying to pry one off a child.

Yes, the risk is small, but is it worth it? Imagine a roulette wheel with one hundred possible outcomes; 99 of them would make you a millionaire and only one would result in death. would you take the bet?

Wade

 

[Psycho]

~~~Psycho~~~

 

[skinheaddave]

Psycho,

Yes, it is a big deal. Irresponsible behaviour reflects on all of us, responsible or not. Your kid gets mauled or killed by your snake and guess what the odds are on me getting my city's bylaws changed to allow even ball pythons (currently you are not allowed any Boidae or Pythonidae)?

If you think I would abuse my power to erase your point of view, however, then you are sadly mistaken. What I would like you to do is provide some sort of well put together argument justifying your behaviour. People here have given you plenty of examples and warnings about what can go wrong and your only response to date has been that you do things "your way." If you aren't ignorant of the danger and your inability to deal with it (I don't care what you say, you are not going to be able to get that snake off as quickly as you think you are, nor will you avoid all damage) then how do you justify your behaviour?

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Bry]

Originally posted by Psycho
Dave I really dont care who you are, but dont sit here and tell me Im as you say it "Ignorant".....We do things the way we do it and you do things the how you do it and if its such a big deal close this thread all mighty moderator and be done with it....I dont need you to sit here and act like your above me cause in all actuality no one is better than another.....Wade I do like your responce...you took the time to be an adult about this whole thread and yes you sparked a twinkle in my eye about the possible dangers in snake keeping, Thank You Wade.

theres a risk in all animal keeping and that will never change, people holding pokies to people holding Cobras..with that being said........Have a nice day;P

Psycho, nobody is trying to act like they are above you or anything like that. We understand that your burm is puppy-dog tame. But, it still has every bit of the same instinct as its wild counterparts do. Like Wade said, the other 5% is all it takes to kill you, and especially your child. We are just trying to warn you of the possible consequences should that other 5% ever spring into action. Yes, there are risks in keeping tarantulas, large snakes, venomous snakes, etc. Why should that mean it is okay for you to increase those risks? What I fail to comprehend is why you would ever take the chance to put your own child at that potential risk. I'm all for exposing children to animals and teaching them to respect animals, but that does not mean I'm going to throw my kid in the tiger enclosure at the zoo for tiger rides. Frankly, I'm sick of this thread because we're not getting anywhere. With that being said, don't expect any more posts here from me.

Bry

 

[Psycho]

~~~Psycho~~~

 

[looseyfur]

I have had quite a few snakes in my days but no kids

what I do have is one big ass pit bull.(hes about 76 lbs) I know my dog well. As one can with a DOG and still I walk him on a leash and with a breaking bar.
Want to know the frank truth.
I couldnt stop that dog from inflicting damage just the same as Phyco couldnt stop that snake if it had the mind to. I still have the dog and I still take precaution. I dont want to be confused with other pit owners who are irresponcible nor I assume Phyco wants to be put in the same catigory as irresponcible snake owners.

with regard to his photo and as much as I beleive with a child that small may have no business being put in that situation with a snake that size I can only liken it to my dog whom I would go above and beyond to protect my right to have and to protect those around him (so they to can enjoy him and pet him and what not) to the best of my ability from him if he were to snap someone up. I beleive Phyco has the same mentality though in truth if that snake ever snapped his kid up he'd be one thing for sure...


f***ed.

just the same as I would if UZI ever grabbed someone or their dog. Yet I to feel justified if I do everything in my power to avoid that bad sceniaro.

may common sence always prevail.

loosey

 

[Lycanthrope]

dogs and snakes are two entirely different worlds (including pitbulls). pitbulls get the evil reputation only through the people who often choose to own the breed. 99% of a dogs personality is a reflection of his owner. dogs have been bred and domesticated far back into history. snakes are not a domesticated animal. while some that have been cb and raised around people are extremely tolerant, there is still the off chance the snake will do something, well, unpredictable. the chance exists with dogs, but to a much lesser extent. ive met pitbulls i would trust to watch my children more than some people ive met. its mostly in the upbringing, if a pitbull is showered with love and respect you get a loving respectful animal, and a trustworthy one. if a dog is beaten, fought, or conditioned to attack, then you have an owner that should be shot, and a dog that acts like what he is, a threatened abused animal. treat a snake with all the love you want, its still a snake. and as awesome and respect- deserving as they are, they just arent the family dog.

 

[Craig]

Very Dangerous

Here is a bite from a 12' reticulated python. The snake did not hang on. He let my hand go right away. Imagine if a python got a hold of a child's face. Right now I can think of at LEAST 5 deaths related to kids and BURMESE pythons. If someone gets a hold of these photos they can call DCFS for child endangerment. as for the ball around the neck.... I have had a ball python stuck around my neck as a result of it locking it's head and tail. I don't mean to be a jerk, but please THINK when you have children envolved.
do you see why there are restrictions being placed on the reptile hobby.

this first picture is of the blood leacking off of my hand onto the floor.

 

[Craig]

This Second picture is of the puncture wounds. There were a lot more holes, but the camera would only pickup the really large ones. Imagine If this was a facial bite.