The Paradoxical Importance of Humidity

[l4nsky]

Ahggg! @l4nsky, why did you have to do this now? I have a huge grant due Tuesday and then am traveling for a few days. I want to respond, but don't have time.
I appreciate your intentions and see a lot of value in what you've written, but I hope beginners don't read it and take it as gospel.
I'm not completely in the hardcore anti-humidity group, and agree with some of what you said, but there are also some assumptions up there... ...thanks for using language like "opinions" and "theories" --which is accurate as laypeople understand those terms.
One large point to consider: Think how differently we modern humans live today, from how we 'evolved' to live in prehistoric times. There are downsides in some cases (e.g. not enough exercise, obesity, etc.), but we generally live longer, healthier, safer lives.
I evolved to binge eat as much fat and sugar as my cave man hands could grab, to feed my gut load of parasites, to watch my wife die in childbirth, to lose all my teeth and die at 50 if I'm lucky.
I'll take my modern life in the 'captivity' we have created. "That's how they evolved" is not sound scientific reasoning, not technically correct.

I think we're aligned in that we don't want to completely replicate the natural environment as in a consistent 90% humidity and 85-90+ degrees fahrenheit or 5% humidity and 100+ degrees fahrenheit in a captive setting. They evolved to cope with it, but it's not ideal. There is a happy medium, but that is based on what if any adaptations they have for moisture conservation. Re-reading through this, I noticed I never really stressed that fact, only mentioned it a few times in passing. Might have to see if the admins will let me edit a piece or two in. As for the wording, I'm not trying to publish a paper, I'm just trying to make something digestible for the masses to ponder. Also, if I couldn't find a paper to back me up, but I felt my reasoning was sound, I made sure to state it was an opinion or assumption on top of clearly stating this whole article is based on my own research and I apply it to my collection, not that this is commonly agreed upon holy writ. Still looking forward to your input though, take your time. This thread took me a few weeks to compile and it won't be going anywhere.

Ive expanded on it so many times here on the boards...shouldnt be hard to find.

Lol guess it's time to go through your 12k posts, I'll be back in 3 days

 

[cold blood]

Lol guess it's time to go through your 12k posts, I'll be back in 3 days

Sorry, I just dont have the time right now. Shouldnt be hard to find as several were from pretty recent threads.

 

[Liquifin]

Humidity is a factor that can affect a tarantula in some ways, but tarantulas are some very tough inverts in captivity in comparison to some others. This topic is usually heated and debated so many times, but it's usually just a case-to-case scenario on how a tarantula keeper would approach the topic of humidity. As long as a tarantula is healthy and doing well, I couldn't care less on how important or non-important humidity is to another keeper. This thread was fun to read, so I'll let this forums debate amongst themselves.

 

[cold blood]

we don't want to completely replicate the natural environment as in a consistent 90% humidity and 85-90+ degrees fahrenheit or 5% humidity and 100+ degrees fahrenheit in a captive setting.

But in nature, these thing are absolutely not this consistent...that's just not how it works....temps fluctuate wildly, as does humidity...day to day, year to year, season to season and even throughout a single day. Cold spells happen everywhere, as do hot spells, dry spells and random water falling.

For this reason I do agree replicating nature is an absurd thought as most who try, are really only replicating that 10-15% of the time conditions are ideal, completely ignoring that the environment isn't actually that friendly or consistent much of the time.

 

[DomGom TheFather]

 

[Dorifto]

Why I didn't receive any notification about this thread, if I was mentioned... Looks like a conspiracy to me...

@l4nsky firstly, thanks for this awesome explanation, you nailed it!

Secondly my apologizes for not being part of it.

I can't understand why people is still telling it's irrelevant even with such a good explanation. It has to be the pride, or something else.

Looking for especific RH levels and that the humidity matters are two different subjets. Understanding how humidity can affect other things could be helpful to reduce unwanted situations that we are encountering all day. And that should be something that should matter to all good keepers. All.

Humidity matters, and if someone says the opposite, one is lying, or two is ignoring blatantly how it works.

That doesn't mean that anyone should be looking at humidity levels all day, because that's unnecessary. Folowing some simple task like keeping a corner moist, or giving some spritz should counteract any possible issues related to humidity, internal or external.

So why still say it is irrelevant, when in reality it matters. Why? That doesn't mean that you are keeping them wrong, because indirectly, you might be providing that humidity or moisture levels they need. And that is what really matters, to keep them right, within their tolerance values.

Knowing how humidity works and it affects things, could simply help a new keeper to keep them one way or in the other, accordingly to their own values. If one thing works for me, it not neccesarily mean that could work for others, so why not to provide them all the information we have, instead of trowing lies saying that it doesn't matter? Because they are very strong statements, that if any new keeper reads and believes them, could drive them to have some serious problems or deaths.


Humidity matters
Chasing Humidity numbers is irrelevant.

This are two completely different things.


PS: This should be a sticky thread @MrDeranged

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

Why I didn't receive any notification about this thread, if I was mentioned...

I tagged a long time ago, you ignored me.

 

[Dorifto]

I tagged a long time ago, you ignored me.

I saw it while reading, I didn't receive the notification, or I didn't saw it sorry! But thanks for tagging me!!!

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

I saw it while reading, I didn't receive the notification, or I didn't saw it sorry! But thanks for tagging me!!!

I was kidding, man. Also, agree with you on the whole humidity subject.

 

[Wolfram1]

I think it is funny how different we handle this topic.

I for one have had great success with giving all my spiders some humidity in their substrate, just so it is very slightly moist, not too much. Rather than varying the moisture in the substrate i vary the amount of ventilation i give them. Species that like it "dry" get more ventilation and species that like it "moist" less. To me that makes much more sense. Arboreals get more ventilation, fossorial or terestrial less.

Moisture in the substrate is the same for all. Thats how i do it and if i ever get a bad molt or other complications, which i haven't so far i might rethink my method.

 

[Arachnid Addicted]

Semantics.

Thesaurus results for HUMID

Synonyms for HUMID: damp, sticky, muggy, tropical, moist, tropic, subtropical, oppressive; Antonyms of HUMID: dry, cool, fresh, refreshing, crisp, arid, bracing, dusty

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Frogdaddy]

How many of you are weather buffs?
Now I don't measure temperature or humidity in any enclosure. I do have a thermometer/hygrometer on my T shelf just to monitor room conditions. But I monitor the dew point via local weather reports.
While we all know RH is a measure of how much moisture the air is capable of holding, dew point actually gives a reference on how much moisture is actually in the air.
Dew points in the upper 60's to low 70's are indicative of very humid/muggy conditions. Likely to produce afternoon pop up rain showers.
Dew points in the 50's have much drier air.

So how does this effect our Ts? If you're experiencing humid weather with high dew points your enclosures will dry out slower. Your T's may even only need ambient room humidity for their comfort.
Watch these numbers carefully. Your room may be 75 degrees and 65% RH with a dew point of 52 degrees, not as much moisture in the atmosphere as a room of 75 degrees, 65% RH and a dew point of 67 degrees.

 

[DaveM]

Here is a thread from not so long ago, where many arguments were made for and against considering humidity in keeping tarantulas:

Welcome to the wonderfull world of humidity

What do you think about humidity, does it matters? This thread is about arguing (like adult people) about different perspectives of the same thing, the humidity in our tarantula enclosures. Everyday living conditions, breeding etc. Overall does it matter? So don't be hesitant posting your...

arachnoboards.com

That thread became contentious and was closed. I wonder how this thread will fare.

 

[Dorifto]

Here is a thread from not so long ago, where many arguments were made for and against considering humidity in keeping tarantulas:

Welcome to the wonderfull world of humidity

What do you think about humidity, does it matters? This thread is about arguing (like adult people) about different perspectives of the same thing, the humidity in our tarantula enclosures. Everyday living conditions, breeding etc. Overall does it matter? So don't be hesitant posting your...

arachnoboards.com

That thread became contentious and was closed. I wonder how this thread will fare.

I sincerely hope that the mods won't close this thread. It would be a great missed oportunity to hear both ends, but for now, only the pro-humidity ones are explaining their point of view.

Speaking and exposing each point of view, we could learn from each other.

 

[VaporRyder]

Here is a thread from not so long ago, where many arguments were made for and against considering humidity in keeping tarantulas:

Welcome to the wonderfull world of humidity

What do you think about humidity, does it matters? This thread is about arguing (like adult people) about different perspectives of the same thing, the humidity in our tarantula enclosures. Everyday living conditions, breeding etc. Overall does it matter? So don't be hesitant posting your...

arachnoboards.com

That thread became contentious and was closed. I wonder how this thread will fare.

I thought it was quite telling that in the poll on that thread there was a tie for second place between ‘yes’ and ‘no’, regarding whether or not humidity matters, whilst ‘I love lollipops’ took the win by a country mile!

I am leaning towards the importance of ‘moisture availability’ for tarantulas - in the sub or water-bowl, rather than in the air (humidity). The fact that some of my tanks will have higher humidity than others is, I think, a by product of the amount of moisture I provide for each species - not the goal in itself.

When I kept snakes I used to actively manage humidity (not moisture availability) by pouring water on to the orchid bark (on which I kept most species) intermittently, and on a regular basis. At 88F in the vivariums, you would often see significant amounts of condensation form. This was an important part of keeping that healthy glossy look a snake’s skin has, and essential for a ‘good shed’. As I understand it, humidity doesn’t affect a spider’s exoskeleton or aid in moulting.

Happy to be corrected on this.

 

[Dorifto]

I thought it was quite telling that in the poll on that thread there was a tie for second place between ‘yes’ and ‘no’, regarding whether or not humidity matters, whilst ‘I love lollipops’ took the win by a country mile!

I should never have put that option in the list...

Humidity matters was second, but casually right before closing the thread, the not group received some extra votes... Hmmmm

I hope we don't derail this post, since the explanations are top notch.

This graph that I made/modified shows the same amount of water but in different temp values, and how this affects RH.




So with this graph anyone can see how a low RH at high temps could equal the same amount of water that the air has at low temps.

Now, imaging that you live in a very dry and cold area, so the rh and the temp, both are low. Obviously you are not living outdoors, so you heat up that air in your house, but do not use any humidifier, now the RH is even lower, taking moisture much faster than anyone keeping the same enclosure at the same temp, but with higher relative humidity.

So how this could be irrelevant at the time of choosing the right setup and how to keep it within the safe limits? To decrease dehydration chances for example? That's why knowing those values could be very helpful to choose the right way of keeping them.

Once you choose your right way to how to keep them correctly, then and only then is going to become irrelevat, since the moisture of the enclosure will counteract any dangerous levels, and by keeping that moisture controlled you will control inherently your enclosure's RH levels.

 

[cold blood]

I for one have had great success with giving all my spiders some humidity in their substrate

you are dampening the sub...humidity is the moisture levels in the air...not the soil.

 

[Wolfram1]

i find the graph a little confusing to be honest, not in the sense of relative humidity but when it comes to how much moisture to add to your enclosure

personally i add water to the substrate to counteract evaporation, not so much to increase relative humidity in the air

 

[cold blood]

i find the graph a little confusing to be honest

Humidity is a confusing topic for many, you are not alone, which is precisely why I point people away from the term.

personally i add water to the substrate to counteract evaporation, not so much to increase relative humidity in the air

Yep, that's all you need to do...when the sub dries, add water.

 

[VaporRyder]

I’m slightly confused too @Dorifto

In the UK it’s very wet and quite green. In summer, the hotter it gets the more humid it gets (or do I mean feels?) and I actually find myself sweating - and it’s sometimes even difficult to breathe easily (I’m not asthmatic) - at temps as low as 27-30C. It’s not like the very dry heat I felt in Spain, which was very comfortable - notwithstanding any sunburn issues - even at much higher temperatures. This is why non-UK people often laugh when people in the UK think it’s hot, until they experience it for themselves. As I type this, I’m sat in my room bare-chested, with sweat starting to bead on my chest and back at just 25C.

The cooler it is the less humid it feels. What am I missing? Is it absolute humidity versus the relative humidity?