The dangers of keeping large snakes

[JTC5150]

My E.Murinus or my Tger Retic, I'm holding my Retic!

 

[Shrike]

It is impossible for snakes today to eat humans. Snakes swallow headfirst, and the shoulders would be very difficult for a snake to fit it's jaws around.

That said, it's still dangerous to keep large snakes because they can easily suffocate you

Respectfully, I disagree. The largest constrictors are quite capable of swallowing a child or small adult. I'm not saying they're in the habit of doing this regularly, just capable of performing the feat:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ke-that-ate-10-year-old-Durban-boy-whole.html

I think this story is legitimate, but I could be wrong.

 

[GiantVinegaroon]

Respectfully, I disagree. The largest constrictors are quite capable of swallowing a child or small adult. I'm not saying they're in the habit of doing this regularly, just capable of performing the feat:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ke-that-ate-10-year-old-Durban-boy-whole.html

I think this story is legitimate, but I could be wrong.

Yes it's been accepted that small people can possibly get eaten.

I find that article very hard to believe. In all my years of keeping and studying reptiles. I have never heard of a snake actually trapping it's prey(from the account they made it sound like it got the boy trapped in the tree and then climbed up and ate him). Also, a human moves much too quickly for a snake that size, and if this kid was trying to stay away from the python, why the heck would he just sit there as this snake slowly approached him?

I'm also pretty sure this story would be pretty big if it really did happen. I've been a subscriber to Reptiles magazine since 2002...and I'm 99% positive that this story would have shown up in an issue if it was true.

 

[pitbulllady]

Yes it's been accepted that small people can possibly get eaten.

I find that article very hard to believe. In all my years of keeping and studying reptiles. I have never heard of a snake actually trapping it's prey(from the account they made it sound like it got the boy trapped in the tree and then climbed up and ate him). Also, a human moves much too quickly for a snake that size, and if this kid was trying to stay away from the python, why the heck would he just sit there as this snake slowly approached him?

I'm also pretty sure this story would be pretty big if it really did happen. I've been a subscriber to Reptiles magazine since 2002...and I'm 99% positive that this story would have shown up in an issue if it was true.

Retics are ambush predators, and are the most arboreal of all the large constrictors, with the exception of the Bar-Neck Scrub(Python amethystina-yes, these have been re-classified as genus Python, and are actually closely related to the Retics). They commonly hang from branches over game trails and grab animals that pass underneath, hauling them up to finish off. It's unlikely that many potential prey animals have any clue that there is a very large snake dangling just feet above their heads. It's like a croc or an alligator, the one that gets you is the one you never see coming.
Still, these cases in which a child is killed or even eaten by a large constrictor are extremely rare, even in the snakes' natural habitats. When you take into consideration that the estimated numbers of captive snakes, including large constrictors and venomous snakes, in private hands in the US is roughly the same as that of horses kept in the US, yet on average, anywhere from 18-38 people will be killed by horses EACH YEAR in this country-a figure which does NOT include people being killed when falling off of horses, by the way-yet there is no outcry and demand to ban and kill every horse in the country, it doesn't make sense. The fear far, far outweighs the actual risk when it comes to snakes. Once again, it's a case of the AR movement exploiting the lack of knowledge of something to further their cause through the fear that ignorance inevitably breeds. They know that they can be a lot more successful in implementing bans on certain animals if they can convince the public that these animals are too dangerous to keep, or it's too cruel to keep them, or that the people who DO keep them are the dregs of society.

pitbulllady

 

[Shrike]

Here is a slightly different account of the same story:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/11/24/1037697985131.html

It seems to me that the snake ambushed (as the pitbulllady pointed out, very typical of this species) the victim while he was picking fruit, while his friends sought refuge in the tree, and watched while he was constricted and then consumed.

Recognizing that this was an extremely unlikely and rare occurrence, I don't find the story that hard to believe.

 

[pouchedrat]

you should see how many people are harmed or killed by CATTLE every year. I don't see our farm industry suffering from that yet.

But yeah, dogs, horses, cows, all do far more damage to humans than many other species that are being threatened by bans. I'll stick to my weird exotic rodents, thank you. I trust them more than I trust a dog or a horse any day of the week.

 

[Exo]

you should see how many people are harmed or killed by CATTLE every year. I don't see our farm industry suffering from that yet.

That's because cattle farming is one of the largest industries in America. People care alot more about their hamburger than they do about a bunch of "weirdos" who like to keep snakes.

 

[GiantVinegaroon]

Retics are ambush predators, and are the most arboreal of all the large constrictors, with the exception of the Bar-Neck Scrub(Python amethystina-yes, these have been re-classified as genus Python, and are actually closely related to the Retics). They commonly hang from branches over game trails and grab animals that pass underneath, hauling them up to finish off. It's unlikely that many potential prey animals have any clue that there is a very large snake dangling just feet above their heads. It's like a croc or an alligator, the one that gets you is the one you never see coming.
Still, these cases in which a child is killed or even eaten by a large constrictor are extremely rare, even in the snakes' natural habitats. When you take into consideration that the estimated numbers of captive snakes, including large constrictors and venomous snakes, in private hands in the US is roughly the same as that of horses kept in the US, yet on average, anywhere from 18-38 people will be killed by horses EACH YEAR in this country-a figure which does NOT include people being killed when falling off of horses, by the way-yet there is no outcry and demand to ban and kill every horse in the country, it doesn't make sense. The fear far, far outweighs the actual risk when it comes to snakes. Once again, it's a case of the AR movement exploiting the lack of knowledge of something to further their cause through the fear that ignorance inevitably breeds. They know that they can be a lot more successful in implementing bans on certain animals if they can convince the public that these animals are too dangerous to keep, or it's too cruel to keep them, or that the people who DO keep them are the dregs of society.

pitbulllady

The python in the article is an African rock python, not a retic, just pointing that out.

I by no means agree with these ridiculous proposals for a nationwide python ban. I think it's dangerous as far as letting your average joe go out and buy a baby on impulse. But that's not why I posted in this thread initially. I was just questioning the stories of giant snakes eating people.

btw I'm going to point out that horse statistic in my facebook. alot of my friends are into horses, so their reactions will be interesting.

 

[Shrike]

The python in the article is an African rock python, not a retic, just pointing that out.

Duly noted. However, an African rock python is also an ambush predator.

 

[pitbulllady]

The python in the article is an African rock python, not a retic, just pointing that out.

I by no means agree with these ridiculous proposals for a nationwide python ban. I think it's dangerous as far as letting your average joe go out and buy a baby on impulse. But that's not why I posted in this thread initially. I was just questioning the stories of giant snakes eating people.

btw I'm going to point out that horse statistic in my facebook. alot of my friends are into horses, so their reactions will be interesting.

If you are referring to the story in which the python in Durbin, South Africa supposedly came after the boy, grabbed him and went into the bushes/up a tree(depending on whose story got printed)while his brothers and sisters watched, this has already been proven a hoax, as well. The father actually murdered the child himself and made up the snake story, with the aid of his other children, to cover for the crime. Authorities found many holes in the accounts as told by the other children, especially when they were questioned one at a time, that were not consistent with a snake encounter. It seemed that the dead child was born to a wife whom the man had fallen out of favor, and rather than waste his precious resources raising the kid, he decided to kill him. The man has been arrested on murder charges after no evidence of a snake could be found and after the other children admitted to helping their father make up the story. Like the incident in Florida this past summer, this is a case of an adult murdering an innocent child, and then pinning the death on an equally-innocent animal, one the real perps figured would be easy to blame due the hate so many people feel for those animals. It is actually rather common, according to a co-worker of mine who is originally from South Africa, for men of certain villages to kill children born to unpopular wives and blame the death on either wild animals or witches.

pitbulllady

 

[Shrike]

Like I said, I could be wrong. I'd read the story around the time the alleged incident occurred but didn't follow up on it. Thanks for the info pitbulllady. Do you have a source debunking the story?

Anyway, the original point still stands. While highly unlikely, large constrictors such as Retics, African rock pythons, and green anacondas are capable of swallowing a small human being.

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

Like the incident in Florida this past summer, this is a case of an adult murdering an innocent child, and then pinning the death on an equally-innocent animal, one the real perps figured would be easy to blame due the hate so many people feel for those animals.

pitbulllady

This is true?? If so, I haven't heard it before. I must have my head under a rock or something.

 

[Red Eyes]

This is true?? If so, I haven't heard it before. I must have my head under a rock or something.

Here you go ...http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,542441,00.html?test=latestnews and here http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2009-08-25/news/python_1_burmese-python-sumter-county-darnell

 

[Shrike]

Thanks for the links.

Where does it say that the parents killed the child? It seems to me that the python killed the child, and now the parents are being criminally charged for their negligence. Rightfully so, I should add.

Pitbulllady, as the original debunker of these stories, can you clarify? Are there definitive sources stating that the snakes involved in the incidents in Florida and South Africa did not kill their respective victims?

 

[AudreyElizabeth]

Thanks for the links.

Where does it say that the parents killed the child? It seems to me that the python killed the child, and now the parents are being criminally charged for their negligence. Rightfully so, I should add.

Pitbulllady, as the original debunker of these stories, can you clarify? Are there definitive sources stating that the snakes involved in the incidents in Florida and South Africa did not kill their respective victims?

I was thinking the same. I am still confused.

 

[pitbulllady]

I was thinking the same. I am still confused.

The owner of the python in Florida which is blamed for the death of the child is NOT the child's parent, or even related. He is a crack dealer/user with multiple convictions and a rap sheet a mile long, who was just "shacking up" with the kid's mother, who was also a convicted dealer. BOTH adults have been formerly charged with MURDER, not Manslaughter, which indicates that there was intent on the part of one or both adults to kill the child. The child died from strangulation, according to the coroner's report. Now, of course, someone who knows nothing about constricting snakes other than what the popular media spews out will assume that such snakes kill by strangulation, by "choking" their victims, but in fact, in my nearly half-century of keeping such snakes, I have NEVER seen one target the throat area. If a large constrictor is in prey-killing mode, it targets the chest area, to prevent the lungs from expanding. The child's hyoid bone was fractured, which is NOT consistent with a snake's attack, but IS commonly found in cases where the victim was choked to death by a human hand, and also when blunt-force trauma to the throat occurs. If the police had no reason to assume that this was anything other than an accident, resulting from negligence, then the charge would have been a much-lesser one than murder. It would have been very easy to make it seem as though the snake had done it, and most people would not have known any better because they would be ignorant as dirt when it comes to large snakes.

pitbulllady

 

[Dyn]

I was looking up the statistics the other day and in the past 19 years there have been 8 deaths by large constrictors in the US.

It ended up being .44 people per year killed by pythons while looking up some other statistics to compare it to... your 10 times more likely (5 people a year compared to .44) to die from anthrax than from a large constrictor. No one from the general public has died from them either. It was either the owner or relative/worker that knew/accepted the risks or a child of said owner where it comes down to parental neglect.

I have 3 retics right now. None of which are large yet, one 10 foot, one 7 and one 6 foot. I also just had my son born and I dont think he will ever be in danger of these snakes because I keep their cages locked at all time and the room they are in is locked as well. It all comes down to common sense all my pythons/tarantulas are in a room locked off from anyone else.

I really hope these bans done come through anytime soon I'm really wanting to get some bar neck scrub pythons soon.

 

[Shrike]

pitbulllady,

Let me preface this by saying I don't doubt your knowledge and experience. I've read your posts and it's clear to me that you make many valuable contributions to the folks on this forum. Nor do I doubt the fact that the child's mother and boyfriend from the Florida news story should be sent to prison for their part in what happened to that child. I should also mention that I don't believe people should be banned from owning large constrictors.

That being said, where are you obtaining your information from? The Florida and South Africa incidents are two well known cases in which the media reported that pythons caused the death of a child. You have debunked both in this thread. The information in the stories describes a scenario that, although exceedingly rare, seems plausible (a large constrictor killing a human being). Did either the media or the authorities draw the same conclusion you have (asserting that the snakes did not cause any harm to the children)? If so, do you have a source that is available to the rest of us?

 

[jayefbe]

mking,

I'm not sure about pitbulllady, but I've read both of those stories before and have also had reached similar conclusions.

On the South African story: Every year there are at least a couple snake "reportings" that are based on nothing but rumors or outright lies. If you re-read that article, I found it surprising that it was published in the first place. There is absolutely zero evidence backing up the story and the only accounts are from extremely questionable sources. Furthermore, the idea of a large snake ambushing a child from a tree is absolutely preposterous. African rocks are not arboreal. They are extremely large and bulky like a Burmese python. Even if it was a child, it would still be exceedingly difficult for a snake to swallow a human. Human shoulders are just too wide to easily get around. In fact, if I had read it cold, without any other information, I would assume it was either a hoax or intentional misconduct being blamed on a snake.

On the Florida story: I know they did not charge the adults with deliberate murder, but there are a number of things that are inconsistent with a large python strangulation. First, the child was covered in multiple lacerations. I've never seen a snake deliberately seek out prey and then bite it multiple times. It's just not their MO when it comes to dispatching prey. Second, the child was strangled about the neck. Generally, constriction by a large snake is done about the torso (like pitbulllady already said) and death is caused by cardiac arrest. I'm not so bold as to say that the adults killed the child and then pinned it on the snake, but there is something fishy about the story.

 

[sharpfang]

My Eyes are Red, just thinkin' bout Story

Irresponsible Owners, should go to Jail!

Like the San Fran Pit Incident......I feel that a "permit" should be owned, in order to posses animals of Any type......That can pose "Unusual", unexpected Dangers to local residences. Not OUTLAWED, but, "PERMITTED".

My take on it.......everyone else is entitled to theirs.

I would OUTLAW Hamsters though! - LOL - Jason