Testing Steatoda Triangulosa asexual reproduction theroy

[Godsmack1934]

Hello, I've decided to test the theroy that Steatoda Triangulosa can reproduce asexually (I know there's a better word for it, but I forgot what it was) for myself. If anyone would be interested in my updating weekly or daily let me know, as I'm planning to document it for myself either way and don't mind posting it here to.

Week 0 E. 1:

Un-mated steatoda triangulosa lays an egg sac, confirmed unmated as I've kept her away from males and obtained her before final molt, eggsac will be monitored. Future updates will be on this thread weekly or as things happen if my other female lays one too, ill moniter and update as needed on that one also.

My other female just layed one last night (had the first females since Sunday, but hadn't thought to test this) so I will test that also (convenient timing) anyhow!

Week 0 E. 2:

Un-mated steatoda triangulosa lays an egg sac, confirmed unmated as I've kept her away from males and obtained her before final molt, eggsac will be monitored.

Observation based hypothesis:
Eating can cause steatoda triangulosa to reproduce without need of a male as both were laid right after the mother spider had a meal.

 

[aaarg]

this kind of thing is always welcome!

the word you're looking for might be parthenogenesis

 

[Godsmack1934]

this kind of thing is always welcome!

the word you're looking for might be parthenogenesis

Yep, that's the word, thanks for letting me know!

I'll keep updates on this thread, and just edit it

 

[darkness975]

Looking forward to the findings.

 

[CRX]

I've long believed this to be true, looking forward to seeing it confirmed. These gals seem to be really prolific breeders.

edit: You probably already know this, but once the inside of the sac starts to darken that means they are alive and growing.

Observation based hypothesis:
Eating can cause steatoda triangulosa to reproduce without need of a male as both were laid right after the mother spider had a meal.

Honestly, I think I've experienced this as well. Mine gets very fat when she eats, and at least once she has laid a sac within a couple days of eating.

edit: Lmao, I just checked the top of her enclosure and sure enough she has another new sac. I fed her about a week ago, so this really tracks. I moved it to a separate container just now.

 

[Brewser]

This is Concieve-able...

 

[CRX]

This thread on reddit seems to support our hypothesis: https://www.reddit.com/r/spiderbro/comments/117s2x6
Claims she had 20 viable sacs that hatched over a period of time, surely sperm cant last that long?

 

[The Snark]

@Godsmack1934 Probably best to keep a day by day log as a reference comparison, even if all you notate is NC as you will need to replicate everything at least twice to move to a working hypothesis. Any deviation with require a sub-study with the same results.
That is, if you want the basis of a white paper. Don't forget a peer review will involve experts looking at every tiny detail. Any deviation will require another study subset.

Don't forget, identical environments for each test run if for no other reason than to eliminate possible variations. You can add variations of time frames and environments in later studies which will lend veracity to the initial findings.

Looking forwards to seeing results!: Parthenogenesis of Steatoda Triangulosa The big plan is you have established a fixed methodology so further studies can come along utilizing your peer reviewed white paper results. There are lots of assistance available in turning out the white paper. Bio labs in universities use studies as what you are shooting for to hone student skills.

 

[Godsmack1934]

@Godsmack1934 Probably best to keep a day by day log as a reference comparison, even if all you notate is NC as you will need to replicate everything at least twice to move to a working hypothesis. Any deviation with require a sub-study with the same results.
That is, if you want the basis of a white paper. Don't forget a peer review will involve experts looking at every tiny detail. Any deviation will require another study subset.

Don't forget, identical environments for each test run if for no other reason than to eliminate possible variations. You can add variations of time frames and environments in later studies which will lend veracity to the initial findings.

Looking forwards to seeing results!: Parthenogenesis of Steatoda Triangulosa The big plan is you have established a fixed methodology so further studies can come along utilizing your peer reviewed white paper results. There are lots of assistance available in turning out the white paper. Bio labs in universities use studies as what you are shooting for to hone student skills.

Thank you so much for letting me know all this! I'll keep a daily log for myself that I've already written in a much more formal manner, I had a plan for a start at peer reviewing as I know someone who studied biology. Thank you again!!

 

[The Snark]

Thank you so much for letting me know all this! I'll keep a daily log for myself that I've already written in a much more formal manner, I had a plan for a start at peer reviewing as I know someone who studied biology. Thank you again!!

That was one of my jobs when working as a 'lab rat' at Cal Tech, along with cleaning the lab and glassware. "Document every damn detail!" The plan being we can throw out the useless stuff but one missing detail can trash an entire study: Welcome back to square 1. We hope you have sufficient funding.

PS Don't forget the supreme mandate: No one offs EVER. All results must be repeatable. @DaveM , lead tech in a bio-science firm, can give you a few volumes about proper experiment procedures.

 

[TheWidowsPeak]

I'm still raising up that original sac, I still have 20 or so females they are still small but they have been housed solo their entire lives. I have read one study on latrodectus that showed females close to a molt can be fertilized by males because they can puncture the wall of the old exoskeleton.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2016.0516

 

[Godsmack1934]

I'm still raising up that original sac, I still have 20 or so females they are still small but they have been housed solo their entire lives. I have read one study on latrodectus that showed females close to a molt can be fertilized by males because they can puncture the wall of the old exoskeleton.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2016.0516

That's an interesting article for sure! Latrodectus is one of my favorite species to keep by far and I always love to learn new things about them! Thank you for sharing.

 

[CRX]

I'm still raising up that original sac, I still have 20 or so females they are still small but they have been housed solo their entire lives. I have read one study on latrodectus that showed females close to a molt can be fertilized by males because they can puncture the wall of the old exoskeleton.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2016.0516

Males in this species seem to be very rare, in my own experience I dont think I have ever seen a male in person. I have several living in spots around my house, and they are all female. Males are documented to exist, but I have a feeling this species is vast majority female.

 

[Godsmack1934]

Males in this species seem to be very rare, in my own experience I dont think I have ever seen a male in person. I have several living in spots around my house, and they are all female. Males are documented to exist, but I have a feeling this species is vast majority female.

Same here, I might have seen 1 in passing in early summer, but that's it. Even then it wasn't at my house.

 

[The Snark]

Males in this species seem to be very rare, in my own experience I dont think I have ever seen a male in person. I have several living in spots around my house, and they are all female. Males are documented to exist, but I have a feeling this species is vast majority female.

This has been analyzed and is in fact a scientifically employed example supporting the survival of the species theory. Viable sperm retention or lack thereof, is a factor in the direct relationship to the number of species of animals present on the planet at any given time, extensive natural disasters notwithstanding.
I've severely paraphrased that due to the number of papers, the length of the cited studies and the minutiae of details in technical-eeze jargon is close to becoming a decades long study bordering on self abuse.

 

[CRX]

This has been analyzed and is in fact a scientifically employed example supporting the survival of the species theory. Viable sperm retention or lack thereof, is a factor in the direct relationship to the number of species of animals present on the planet at any given time, extensive natural disasters notwithstanding.
I've severely paraphrased that due to the number of papers, the length of the cited studies and the minutiae of details in technical-eeze jargon is close to becoming a decades long study bordering on self abuse.

I know what you said should make sense to me, but I'm not sure. Is there a way you're able to make that even simpler for the mentally challenged among us (me)? What does what I said, relate to what you said like per survival. Is there being more females a good thing, meaning the species is surviving good? I'm on weed and beers so apologies hahah

I do genuinely wanna understand this stuff so I am paying attention to yalls advice.

 

[The Snark]

Is there a way you're able to make that even simpler for the mentally challenged among us (me)?

And me. We're talking a long time ago at an EMT refresher where a speaker was going into OB emergencies. He was one of the ultra egghead folks and went off into gestation periods and all sorts of incidental factors involved in the reproductive cycles. Cycles were very important, highly emphasized several times, where what seemed to be minor or even irrelevant factors could make the difference between barren and capably reproductive. That is where viable sperm retention got in on things to tip the scales towards effective reliable fertilization.
Later on I cracked books, noticed that Darwin got in on things, and eventually sort of gave up that line of study, only retaining some of the most salient points. Here's hoping this makes sense.

 

[darkness975]

Males in this species seem to be very rare, in my own experience I dont think I have ever seen a male in person. I have several living in spots around my house, and they are all female. Males are documented to exist, but I have a feeling this species is vast majority female.

They're around. I saw a male on my bathroom wall the other day. They do tend to resemble a lot of other "house spiders" and it is easy to overlook them. Especially when they are wandering.

 

[Godsmack1934]

Hello, I've decided to test the theroy that Steatoda Triangulosa can reproduce asexually (I know there's a better word for it, but I forgot what it was) for myself. If anyone would be interested in my updating weekly or daily let me know, as I'm planning to document it for myself either way and don't mind posting it here to.

Week 0 E. 1:

Un-mated steatoda triangulosa lays an egg sac, confirmed unmated as I've kept her away from males and obtained her before final molt, eggsac will be monitored. Future updates will be on this thread weekly or as things happen if my other female lays one too, ill moniter and update as needed on that one also.

My other female just layed one last night (had the first females since Sunday, but hadn't thought to test this) so I will test that also (convenient timing) anyhow!

Week 0 E. 2:

Un-mated steatoda triangulosa lays an egg sac, confirmed unmated as I've kept her away from males and obtained her before final molt, eggsac will be monitored.

Observation based hypothesis:
Eating can cause steatoda triangulosa to reproduce without need of a male as both were laid right after the mother spider had a meal.

Week 1 E1:

No visible changes in size or color.

No significant changes made.


Week 1 E2:

No visible change in size or color.

No changes made by me or the female.

 

[CRX]

I have had sacs take up to nearly a month (in one case 6 weeks) to hatch. On;y time will tell. Im not sure what causes them to hatch or not hatch.

ALL that being said, they have an excellent hatching rate. I've never seen a failed clutch from this species. I have a sac that Im currently watching myself, in a container, it will be a joy when I see the tiny steatodas..