Terrible keepers rant and Xenesthis❓

[Arachnophobphile]

Just be glad you were able to save the one and move on. Unfortunately no one person can save every animal that needs rescue. It's an important part of rescue work to be able to recognize that you help the ones you can and don't blame yourself for the ones you can't help. It was beyond your control, and it's sad you had to see it, but not a problem that you can fix if he's not open to it.
I've struggled with the same in cat rescue, knowing when just getting out the animals the hoarder is willing to part with is ok, and when it's maybe time to make some kind of report. And then also knowing that reporting them will bomb the relationship you've built and they may not be willing to voluntarily give up any more of the cats/kittens going forward....
If you do decide to get involved, I've found a compassionate approach is generally most effective- "Hey, seems like you're kinda overwhelmed by the number you've got here- I'd be willing to take some off your hands, get them healthy and find them homes if you have any you don't want to keep." Works with cats anyway.

That's a very positive outlook and approach kudos I like that.

 

[SpookySpooder]

Mine was definitely the most laid back rehouse I ever had with a sling.

Don't underestimate their UrS now. When it puts on size those UrS will be nastier than something like my T. vagans. I'm sure you already know this so I guess just having a senior moment and felt the need to mention it

Definitely! I'm used to rehousing P. irminia, Ornithoctoninae, Baboons, and Avics who never want to go into their enclosures so this one was a welcome reaction. I love how accepting it was. Probably being stuck in a tiny cell for a while will make you compliant.

It definitely has the worst hairs out of any T I already own, none of my other T's have been able to stick one into me. I'll definitely be watching my eyes with this one in the future.

Thanks for the warning.

Whole heatedly agree with this issue you have with them. unfortunately usually either nothing happens and animal cruelty related issues persist, or the government steps in and people complain about not having the freedom to keep specific animals anymore.

To be honest, I feel the pet industry has proved itself unable to self regulate and be a mature industry that protects both environment and animal welfare. and although I dislike too much government intervention, I feel "we" the industry (in general) have given them every reason to regulate us

100% agreed with you. In aquaria I noticed how hobbyists were responsible for the decimation of local fish populations for the pet trade as well as for the release of invasive aquatic plants in literally every state.

In other hobbies it applies as well. Seems like human nature pervades our communities no matter where they are and there will always be some amongst us who side step the conventionally accepted etiquette or just break the laws.

Both responses are not favorable to me. I don't want to allow these individuals free reign to perpetuate their abuse but at the same time I do not want the government to step in and regulate everybody by restricting what you can keep.

At the end of the day, the well being of the animal is most important, so I think we need stricter regulations on *WHO* can breed and commercially sell animals. Maybe a breeder cert would be enough to elevate the care for specimens who will be involved in mass scale breeding projects? But then who would be the T-breeder auditing agency that investigates and enforces code on breeders like the one I met?

Too much politic, not enough agenda. I don't think that would ever pass, because no politician would champion it. More likely they just can the entire hobby as a whole and label it as too dangerous.

I have seen individuals who have bad husbandry like the person you encountered this week. Large scale breeding projects have a lot going on so the set up isn't necessarily the problem, but I do not condone the poor conditions and needless deaths that person willfully accepts as normal. That really is too bad, and a person like that indeed knows their care is subpar but they will never change. So I don't suggest even attempting to address it through your friend.

I have seen a few other animal rooms like this. The worst one I ever saw was a fish room, again, dead specimens in several enclosures. I don't mind the bare bones breeder set up--when I bred Caridina cantonensis and Neocaridina davidi I kept entire colonies in bare tanks. No plants, decor, substrate. This didn't mean they recieved lesser care, just that their enclosures were maximized for breeding and genetic selection, not for display.

I want to help, but I'm unable to come up with an actionable plan with lasting results.

Just be glad you were able to save the one and move on. Unfortunately no one person can save every animal that needs rescue. It's an important part of rescue work to be able to recognize that you help the ones you can and don't blame yourself for the ones you can't help. It was beyond your control, and it's sad you had to see it, but not a problem that you can fix if he's not open to it.
I've struggled with the same in cat rescue, knowing when just getting out the animals the hoarder is willing to part with is ok, and when it's maybe time to make some kind of report. And then also knowing that reporting them will bomb the relationship you've built and they may not be willing to voluntarily give up any more of the cats/kittens going forward....
If you do decide to get involved, I've found a compassionate approach is generally most effective- "Hey, seems like you're kinda overwhelmed by the number you've got here- I'd be willing to take some off your hands, get them healthy and find them homes if you have any you don't want to keep." Works with cats anyway.

Yeah, I've learned through dealing with several hoarders that you can't just force the optimal solution. It's a mental change that needs to happen for the behavior to then change. Just cleaning up the mess simply frees up space for more hoarding.

I'm writing a proposal for my friend to pass along, it's something along the lines of "I really respect your effort and motivation to build something up and create something, but I'm concerned about the workload and logistics of caring for so many projects at once with everything else going on. I can see he has more work than he can handle himself, so I want to ask if he's interested or open to me volunteering my time at no monetary cost to help reduce his workload by finding people to buy out his stock (reducing his available breeding pairs) and assisting with basic maintenance." I'm willing to help get his collection to basic acceptable husbandry status and find new homes for anything he would like to downsize or get rid of.

It's a long shot, but one I'm willing to take.

Although it poses the issue I mentioned before, what will prevent him from perpetuating this with the next group of animals? If I'm unable to sway his habits and behavior, jumping in headfirst is moot. I might be able to help his current group of animals, but what about the next? If anything, I might just facilitate space for the next group to be neglected.

This is where I am stuck. I know I can't force him to change nor can I force him to stop breeding at this scale or give up his animals. Within my influence, I can do nothing for his animals, and accepting that is hard.

Not sure if he's actually breaking any laws, perhaps I can have a regulatory or enforcement agency slap him with some motivation to do better?

Anyway, I shoot my shot and if nothing works out I'll have to write it off as another sad situation in the animal hobby.

 

[sparticus]

I'm writing a proposal for my friend to pass along, it's something along the lines of "I really respect your effort and motivation to build something up and create something, but I'm concerned about the workload and logistics of caring for so many projects at once with everything else going on. I can see he has more work than he can handle himself, so I want to ask if he's interested or open to me volunteering my time at no monetary cost to help reduce his workload by finding people to buy out his stock (reducing his available breeding pairs) and assisting with basic maintenance." I'm willing to help get his collection to basic acceptable husbandry status and find new homes for anything he would like to downsize or get rid of.

I like the idea, especially of volunteering to help feed and properly house everyone. My one piece of advice is that I would try to keep money out of it. If the stock sells and he profits, it is absolutely perpetuating the cycle. If it dies in his care, then he's already been taking a hit on at least those ones financially, and I'm sure he knows that deep down already. I would make it clear that you are willing to take things in/help out in any way you can, but not to provide free labor for him to profit off them. That's where I would draw the line. Then use your judgement on where to go from there. It kinda sounds like he already knows it's more than he can handle, you just need to give him an out and some time to come to terms with it. Sometimes people will surprise you. And if he's not one of them, again not your fault. Those spiders were already living (or dying ) like that before you came into the picture. At least you tried.
That's just how I would approach it, I'm sure you'll figure out what works best for you.