Tarantulas info ( all species )

[davidmmx]

Hi, I need to know some things about "all" tarantulas in the hobby, because of the project I talked about here:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=73403

There will be the following atributtes and possible values:

attribute values

habitat arboreal terrestrial
hairs throwable urticant not urticant
venom mild not mild severe
temperament docile defensive very defensive
webbing not webber webber heavy webber
burrowing doesn't burrow burrows pet hole
size small medium big
resistence delicate hardy


I know I didn't include the price... sorry, i just forgot about it. Perhaps I'll add that later ( october ).

As I don't want you to think I'm lazy, I'll start this with some easy tarantulas:

All brachypelma will have
terrestrial, throwable, mild, docile ,not webber, burrows ,medium ,hardy

Avicularia purpurea, avicularia, versicolor.
arboreal, urticant, mild, docile, heavy, webber, doesn't burrow, medium, delicate

Avicularia minatrix ( I don't really know about this )
arboreal, urticant, mild, docile, heavy webber, doesn't burrow, small, delicate

Acanthoscurria geniculata, brocklehursti
terrestrial, throwable, mild, defensive ,not webber ,burrows, big, hardy

Psalmopoeus irminia, cambridgei
arboreal, not urticant, not mild, very defensive, heavy webber, burrows, medium, hardy

Haplopelma lividum
terrestrial, not urticant ,severe, very defensive, webber, pet hole, medium, hardy

All poecilotheria
arboreal, not urticant, severe, defensive ,heavy webber, doesn't burrows, medium, hardy


Please, revise poecilotheria (defensive?), haplopelma,psalmopoeus(very defensive?) and Acanthoscurrias (not webber, defensive?)

I know I must include more attributes, like grow rate, but as september is soooo near I won't try after my next exams. If you want, include

grow rate slow, fast

Thanks in advance for the info. Expect a release soon, after I've solved the licensing issues ( I have no idea about that stuff ) but source code will be made avaliable, like a binary distribution.

My versi asks me to say hello for her :?


PD Please don't repeat species unless you want to correct some mistake, and if you do so please say you correcting some other post.

 

[M.F.Bagaturov]

Sorry man.. this is fiction, but You never can arrange the species (near 900 of spiders of theraphosidae) as You wish, even in poecilotheria You have a very different species according Your statements... even it is possible to describe a big difference between the individuals among one species.

 

[davidmmx]

big difference between the individuals among one species.

Aren't all Avicularia avicularia arboreal, with urticant hairs, heavy webbers, not burrowers, docile, with mild venom, not hardy and medium sized? Isn't true that all Poecilotheria regalis are arboreal, they don't have urticant hairs, are defensive, heavy webbers, with a venom more powerful than most other tarantulas, not burrowers (when adults), and hardy?

I don't understand what did you mean with that phrase. Of course my A. versicolor may be more skittish than yours, but in general they are considered docile. Will anyone say they aren't?

I'm asking only about things that don't really depend so much on the individual.

About the species, I didn't know there were about 900 in the hobby. I don't remember where did I read there were about 250. Anyway, I'm not doing any kind of encyclopedia, it's enough with the most common in the hobby. Which species do you have? It's enough if you have one not listed yet.

Anyway I've seen this is not really interesting for people, so I'll add some on my own to make this for my subject at college and forget about it.

Thanks anyway for the answer, though I haven't understood it at all.

 

[Code Monkey]

You can find a really good resource for a lot of the sort of categories you're looking for here: http://www.e-spiderworld.com/Genustext.htm

Most species that have been in the hobby at some point or another have a brief description.

 

[M.F.Bagaturov]

Hello David.

Aren't all Avicularia avicularia arboreal,

For example, who knows what the "Av. avicularia" really is? And what is really an "Avicularia" too?

Aren't all Avicularia avicularia arboreal,with urticant hairs, heavy webbers, not burrowers, docile, with mild venom, not hardy and medium sized?

Yes, all Avics are arboreal with urticating hairs, but Av. versicolor flick it, others - not... they're syre great webbers, but some may not web at all for months... and YES! all are not burrowers, but slings and juvenils readily can dig burrows for living (as well as poeci's and psalmo's), they sure docile, but Av. versicolor or laeta can bit You easily, without any hesitation and warning... yes, they're "hardy", but lots of slings die in hobby amoung keepers without "any reason"... medium sized You said? khm... if 7-8 cm of BL is medium size for arboreals - that should all Your proposition are quite well...

Believe me, I can tell You more and more things like this for Poecilotheria and others.... but we're just wasting time, my friend... just remember - "no rules and standarts for theraphosids"...
We think we knows something about em, but still much is unknown... that's all I want to say.

Thanks anyway for the answer, though I haven't understood it at all.

Nothing for... is it clear now?

 

[davidmmx]

You can find a really good resource for a lot of the sort of categories you're looking for here: http://www.e-spiderworld.com/Genustext.htm

Most species that have been in the hobby at some point or another have a brief description.

Thank you for this link

Yes, all Avics are arboreal with urticating hairs, but Av. versicolor flick it

Forgive me but I'm not really fluent in english. Do you mean they can throw them, or that they can "rub" her abdomen against you? Anyway, if it's the second I'd put it into the "has urticant" category, since there is a great difference between taking care of not being shot with that in the face and just not being able to touch it without having the urticant effect.

they're syre great webbers, but some may not web at all for months

First time I hear about this. Whenever I asked somewhere about avics. I was always told they were great webbers, and started to web a few days after being in their new enclosure. Anyway, if you say here you want a heavy webber, everyone will tell you they are. If you say you dn't want a heavy webber everyone will tell you not to buy this one. Same with this system: always are exceptions, but you don't take those into account when choosing ( please correct me if I'm wrong ).

but slings and juvenils readily can dig burrows for living (as well as poeci's and psalmo's), they sure docile, but Av. versicolor or laeta can bit

As any T lives more time as an adult, and I think we all buy them thinking how will be them as adults ( I buy only lings, I like to see they grow, but when I bought I was only thinking on their adult colors and habits ) I think it's not really important if the dig when they are just lings. BTW, i read rcently that avics are one of those arboreals that go straight up from slings:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=74563

About A.laeta and versi being different from other avics, that's not a problem. I classified them as the A.avic because I thought they were. I never heard they were defensive, but docile. Anyway, every species has it's own attributes, I don't need to group them. In fact, I couldn't do it even if I wanted, because I'm including a picture of every species, and they don't look similar.

medium sized You said? khm... if 7-8 cm of BL is medium size for arboreals

I'm still a noob. I classified them as medium sized just because they're bigger than A.minatrix, and I think there are some sightly smaller, and I though psalmopoeus irmina and cambridgei were really bigger than A. avicularia. I know I may be wrong. That's the reason of my post here.

I'll use the link CM posted here, since it seems in that page are that kind of generalizations I'm asking for.

 

[MindUtopia]

I think the problem (one among many) is that you are taking knowledge of a couple common species and extrapolating that to an entire genus, which is just bad science. A. avicularia may generally be "docile" and "medium sized", but A. braunshauseni is known to be more aggressive and quite large. Genuses are similar taxonomically, but I don't think you can generalize these similarities to behavioral traits or at least not with any sort of reliability. Also, your categories are quite vague. What might be hardy to one person would be not hardy to another, while what could constitute a lot of hard flicking to one person might be insignificant to another with a different level of experience.

 

[Code Monkey]

I think the problem (one among many) is that you are taking knowledge of a couple common species and extrapolating that to an entire genus, which is just bad science.

But this isn't about fine-tuned science, this is about him constructing a computer project on a subject he's interested in. It's a program that allows you to answer a series of questions about what factors are important to you and have spiders recommened from selection from a heirarchal tree. No, it won't be some great tool for us to use, but that was never the point.

 

[becca81]

I'm not nearly finished with this yet.. but it may help (I'm updating quite frequently as I have time..)

http://www.beccastarantulas.com/tarantulas/caresheets/care page.htm

 

[gumby]

you can also find some good info at www.scottstarantulas.com just click on the pics in the price list I like his site a lot

 

[davidmmx]

I post just to finish this giving thanks for the links to CM, becca and gumby Thank you !

 

[V3i HoN6]

something to add,
genus Cyriopagopus(based on observation of sp Blue, thorelli and schoedtei)
-<s>terrestrial</s>EDIT:Arboreal i meant (but very elusive that rather hide in burrow most of time)
-not urticant
-not mild or severe(never bitten by)
-defensive
-webber(web as the sturcture to hold soil,pet hole)
-burrowing(not deep down, but bring up a soil and build hidind place)
-big
-hardy (quite)
correct me if im wrong.

as for the growing, my brachy and grammostola are quite slow grower.

Hello David.
For example, who knows what the "Av. avicularia" really is? And what is really an "Avicularia" too?

Yes, all Avics are arboreal with urticating hairs, but Av. versicolor flick it, others - not... they're syre great webbers, but some may not web at all for months... and YES! all are not burrowers, but slings and juvenils readily can dig burrows for living (as well as poeci's and psalmo's), they sure docile, but Av. versicolor or laeta can bit You easily, without any hesitation and warning... yes, they're "hardy", but lots of slings die in hobby amoung keepers without "any reason"... medium sized You said? khm... if 7-8 cm of BL is medium size for arboreals - that should all Your proposition are quite well...

Believe me, I can tell You more and more things like this for Poecilotheria and others.... but we're just wasting time, my friend... just remember - "no rules and standarts for theraphosids"...
We think we knows something about em, but still much is unknown... that's all I want to say.

I dont see the reason why he should be discourage from the efforts of knowing the tarantula more, probably as the general idea to begin with, so he will go on to more and more information as he gets to know more. It's not like he's writing a book and that will be publish as the definite truth of the tarantula.

I was like him when i first started, trying to generalize them in genus because its impossible to pick up all the individual T's in short time. And you cant really tell the habitual difference in between the genus unless you have everyone single one of them, and provided you have the times to observe them all. I cant. So i go with general one and slowly pick one or two in details that i'm interested with. And I researched about them thoroughly through all the info, caresheet that i can find before i decided to get one.

Yeah, I noticed and i too, can tell some of differences/exceptions that you mentioned about the avic family. But im not even half as knowledgeable as you, as i still cant tell the others. So i really hope you share the others when you can and at the same time let the threadstarter go on with his reaserch.

No offence.

 

[M.F.Bagaturov]

No offence, sure.
And as for Cyrioipagopus You consider a terrestrial that's a little bit is the example why I don't think is not useful to generalize the info. Cyropagopus spp are not terrestrial, but arboreal or at least semi-arboreal (as far as they live in nature)...
That's why the idea of this generalization is poor to me.
But sure, You can did it as it is good to know something than anything...

Unfortunately my site is still down, but I try to put here some of the guides here: for example it is Brachypelma genus description (sorry for format of theis message) down:
----------
Genus Brachypelma Simon, 1891
Genus status. Including genus Euathlus Ausserer, 1875; Brachypelmides Schmidt & Krause, 1994.
Type species – Brachypelma emilia White, 1856. Type was lost. Eugene Simon, probably, based his genus description on specimens from Paris Museum of natural history, which he consider as «emilia», because of studied specimens had triangle mark on carapace, beinging typical feature noted by White in 1856 (it is necessary to take into account that at the end of years 1800 a principle of fixing of type specimens only began to used).
The difference of genus Brachypelma from other genuses of subfamily Theraphosinae is concluded in presence of featherlike hairs on trochanter and lower surface of femur of leg I. Also femur of leg III is only slightly incrassate. Male embolus has denominated coniform, spoonlike form with keeled edge. Female spermathecae fused or herewith has pressing in the middle (B.klaasi). A bunches of featherlike hairs on femur of leg IV are absent.
It is necessary also to notice that in spite of the fact that femur of leg III slightly incrassate, however herewith not so increased as at representatives of close related genus Megaphobema Pocock, 1901.
This is very popular and widespread in collections of amateurs of the World spiders many from which have in its colouration of red tone in spite of the fact that they are limited in legal sale or trade. Is a single genus of tarantulas listed in CITES, Appendix II, forbiding a trade of wild animales. (In 2000 there was is also declared the genus Poecilotheria, but this proposal after detailed study was not taken by Committee).
However due to collectors, for instance B. smithi, is breeded in captivity in greater amounts, though in nature considering as exceedingly rare and endangered as a result of active agricultural activity, exterminate by local inhabitants, burning-out of ground and mastering the places their inhabits (is, alongside with B. emilia, a species, listed in 1996 in Mexican Red Book).
Keeping conditions. All species of genus Brachypelma is enough unpretentious in conditions, as a rule, not aggressive, but the majority of these tarantulas flick hairs from abdomen being disturbing, that mildly reduces their decorative effect.
These average and large in size terrestrial spiders reaching 6-8 ñm (body length) and 14-17 ñm in leg span, under keeping requirements is conditionally possible to divide into two basic groups:
1- species requiring smaller humidity (60%), which is reasonable to keep on mildly moistened or dry substratum with a large water bowl for drinking (absolute majority of mexican species), and
2- species requiring more increased humidity (about 75-85%). Under keeping this species in captivity (inhabiting the tropical forested areas of American continent) is required, both maintenance of humidity of a substratum, and presence of water bowl as well.
These tarantulas must be kept under the temperature 26-29°Ñ. As a rule, do not need a retreat.
Most species (especially the Mexican ones) grow quite slow and reach maturity at 4-5 years and according some information at 7-10 years (Locht et al., 1999). However a spiders of second group grow quicker than their own xerophilous relatives.
Most species can be recommended to beginners.
Distribution. As a whole the distribution of species of genus Brachypelma is limited by territories of Central America with a localization center in Mexico. Herewith any confirmed data allows to spread an areal of genus to Southamerican countries is absent.
An interesting fact there was connected with finding in 1996 of natural population of Mexican redrump tarantula B. vagans (about 100 specimens of different ages) in citrus avenue in Saint-Lucy county, Fort Pierce, Florida * Discoveries are known and at present time.
===========

No looking I have to really generalize the description of the genera myself I
did not think that this it was very wise, but at least i try to get a notes on the particular species in their description part. That's give a more data and information.

 

[davidmmx]

I thought this thread had died. Anyway, I want to say again something, as it seems like nobody has read it:

About A.laeta and versi being different from other avics, that's not a problem. I classified them as the A.avic because I thought they were. I never heard they were defensive, but docile. Anyway, every species has it's own attributes, I don't need to group them. In fact, I couldn't do it even if I wanted, because I'm including a picture of every species, and they don't look similar.

I didn't want to generalize the entire genus of Avicularia to some common characteristics. I grouped some (purpurea, versicolor, avicularia) because I thought they were all the same except for their colors. Didn't anyone read this or I'm just not getting the point of this?

About this

And as for Cyrioipagopus You consider a terrestrial that's a little bit is the example why I don't think is not useful to generalize the info. Cyropagopus spp are not terrestrial, but arboreal or at least semi-arboreal (as far as they live in nature)...

:wall: It would have been easier to tell me "add a semiarboreal value to this, since we think some species should be considered this way, not just arboreal and terrestrial".

For example, who knows what the "Av. avicularia" really is?

Where is the trick with this question?

If anyone has to say anything with this, please be a bit more direct, like "eh, I think you should add more choices to the "size" attribute, not just small, medium and big" or "you should add another one to the temperament, something between docile and defensive" and not asking "who knows what A. avicularia is? I can't even imagine what did you try to say with that, since all people I talked to has a defined idea of what is it.

Bear in mind how do people answer questions here. I mean, if you were asked "does this species burrows?" You wouldn't then make a ranking of species, ordered by their burrowing habits. You would answer "no, it doesn't burrows at all", or "itś a pet hole, you will see it once a week". This works the same way, i'm not trying to make lists, just to have that kind of answers. Anyway, if you think I should add more options to any attribute, tell me, but don't expect to have ten options, since no one realy thinks that way. I don't know if this is clear now, but this should use the same values you have in mind when solving this kind of problem, when a noob asks you for help on choosing a T. How many "values" do you "use" when reasoning about webbing habits of a T?

Please, if I misunderstood something about generalizing an entire genus, tell me, but DON'T say again that A.versicolor is not the same as A.aurantiaca, since I already got it the first time, and as I said that was not a problem, every species (not genus) will have its own values, I just put some species of Avicularia with same values because I THOUGHT they were similar.

 

[V3i HoN6]

No offence, sure.
And as for Cyrioipagopus You consider a terrestrial that's a little bit is the example why I don't think is not useful to generalize the info. Cyropagopus spp are not terrestrial, but arboreal or at least semi-arboreal (as far as they live in nature)...

Oh my..
I meant arboreal. (i just slipped my mind:8o )
As all my cyriopagopus are also keep in arboreal setup.

And if you look at them, their struture is build for an arboreal as well.
They have wide toes and long legs, and they come out and climb at night when the light is out. And i've seen it jump too.

 

[M.F.Bagaturov]

hello David!

Sure, it is more wise to be a much detailed in the suggestions for You project, but I would tell You that nobody would do it for You. You have to do it Yourself, that's why I give You one advice (in fact I hate to advice anything to enybody): close Your project for while (about an year or so) and start to educate Yourself: read not that people wright down in the board, but the info published about species You're interested (I believe in Spain is easier to find anything I told than in Russia).
I believe that many would claim on me for this "advice", but believe me if You want to do something that You believe would have some "value" for people You have to know it firstly Youself and You try not to simply compile the info is told anybody from his own "experience" (in fact, just a pure experience is nothing without putting Your brain in it hard) of something that are commonly known by everyone, but collect the real info and found Your personal way to explane people how it should be used, etc...
Sorry, for the above but for me it is really doesn't interesting to be "fed" with the info, but if You have a good info "base" You'll regrow a "meat on that bone" and this would be something You should proud Yourself and would really can help other people in they're research and even not only for hobby but for a science as well.
Hope You understand me right and good luck to You anyway!

P.S.

For example, who knows what the "Av. avicularia" really is?
Where is the trick with this question?

The trick is that if You want to describe something You should knew the subject much deeper than anybody else...
Try to find posts about the Avicularia spp by "angelarachnid" and it is would leads You to answer Your question (or try to find Linnaeus desription of Aranea avicularia Yourself and found does that features he describe gives You a real possibility to tell what any "Avicularia" really is).

 

[davidmmx]

Sure, it is more wise to be a much detailed in the suggestions for You project, but I would tell You that nobody would do it for You

In fact, no one would be doing anything for me. As said before, my first concern was to do a simplistic system, since I don't need a really complex one to pass my subject at college. So, I'm already done with that, i don't need any more help with it, it's enough with the links already posted.

So, why am I still here asking? I had the intention to go a little further and make something better, to make it usable for people new to the hobby. From my point of view, we all could be doing it for them: experienced keepers with their knowledge, and me trying to use it with this.

but if You have a good info "base" You'll regrow a "meat on that bone" and this would be something You should proud Yourself and would really can help other people in they're research and even not only for hobby but for a science as well.

You make me more confused with each post. This is not about science. This is not intended to classify a given T into any species, genus, family or whatever. Science has really nothing to do with it, since it is intended to tell someone "eh, the T's that best fit your desires are these, so I would recommend you to buy one of them". This leads me to think you didn't understand the goal of this. That could explain why you are telling me that kind of confusing things, like that question of "who knows what the "Av. avicularia" really is", because from the point of view of the requirements for the recommendation, the only imporant things are : is docile or defensive? can it throw urticant hairs? is it big? That kind of things a noob thinks about when asking here for advice on buying a new tarantula.

And last, but not least

The trick is that if You want to describe something You should knew the subject much deeper than anybody else...

This isn't right in any way. I'm not trying to describe anything, like if I were writing an article. That's not what i do. I'm supposed to take knowledge from "experts" and use it to make something that could use that knowledge. I'm not supposed to breed a thousand of species to be able to use what i learned from that, but to ask people who already know about it and take advantage of their experience, ask them how do they recommend one species or other and try to emulate it.

Anyway, I'm already done with the college, and I'm not paid for improve this to make it at least usable, so I don't have more interest in it than you! If you think it's a waste of time to enrich the attributes and its vaues to make a more fine-grained selection of a T given some requirements, I think the same. I will hand in my really simple system at college, pass the subject, and forget about this.

Hope You understand me right and good luck to You anyway!

As I said, i can gain with this the same as you: nothing. So don't worry about me understanding what you said, I already know I won't learn anything abut T's the fast way, and that was not my intention anyway and I don't really care about going further.

Thanks to all, specially for the links!