Tarantula On Airplane

[Andrew Clayton]

Im declaring it genius. Who said im not declaring it ? Also i just told u its legal...

I've already asked multiple times if you're seeking permission and you have ignored it so no need to get cheeky about it.
What county in Europe do you travel to?

 

[CentiPete]

For those curious about EU regulations, if it is not a dog, cat or ferret (curiously they have their own category) there is no union wide regulation but national laws of the member states apply. For those three mammal categories they need to be chipped and registered, and the reason seems to prevent the spread of rabies.

EU countries' specific information

National rules that apply to the movement of animal species not affected by rabies, as well as the ones of no epidemiological significance for rabies...

food.ec.europa.eu

It's not states over here, it's all separate counties like the USA, Canada, Mexico and so on. All of which have there own laws so stating a general Europe law is just the same as me stating a general continent of Americas law. At the end of the day if op is not declaring, it's smuggling whether it's allowed or not.

The word state and country can be used interchangeably in this case as in nation-state of and yes, there are binding regulations that EU member states or countries need to abide by. They need to implement them into national law. Since OP was talking about europe as a whole EU regulations apply.

In this case I have looked up several national laws about this and no, you don’t have to declare in austria for example, as it is LEGAL to bring the animal and no permit is needed in the first place. So if OP went from Canada to Austria with said animal the worst that can happen is that a tidy customs officer has to make sure it is in fact a legal spider. If they want to give him a hard time that can still be inconvenient, but legally there is nothing to worry about. Smuggling is only smuggling if you bring in something illegal, hence the term. OP is completely right here, at least in this example.

 

[Andrew Clayton]

The word state and country can be used interchangeably in this case as in nation-state of and yes, there are binding regulations that EU member states or countries need to abide by. They need to implement them into national law. Since OP was talking about europe as a whole EU regulations apply.

In this case I have looked up several national laws about this and no, you don’t have to declare in austria for example, as it is LEGAL to bring the animal and no permit is needed in the first place. So if OP went from Canada to Austria with said animal the worst that can happen is that a tidy customs officer has to make sure it is in fact a legal spider. If they want to give him a hard time that can still be inconvenient, but legally there is nothing to worry about. Smuggling is only smuggling if you bring in something illegal, hence the term. OP is completely right here, at least in this example.

All this is dependent on the airline all of which are private companies and do not have to abide by those laws. If they don't want it on there plane that's there choice.

Smuggling is the illegal moving of goods whether they goods are legal or not. You can definitely smuggle something that is already legal, as seen with cigarettes and alcohol all around the world, don't know why you would think smuggling would have to be illegal stuff.

Edit;
Sorry but you're state and country statement must only apply in American English, a state is definitely not a country over here.

 

[CentiPete]

@Andrew Clayton Man I don’t want to get into an argument, but that cigarette comparison does not apply. You can carry a legal amount of cigarettes without declaring and it is perfectly legal to do so. That is the whole point. And if you cross that legal limit on what you can carry, only then you have to declare, because then it is considered smuggling an illegal amount and is basically charged as tax evasion.

It simply does not apply to this case in any way, since OP was talking about a single spider for private purposes, which is legal, no permit needed. If they ask him if he has a spider he can say yes, it’s a legal spider and that’s that. If they don’t ask he does not need to say anything since he is well within his rights. Airplane companies are of course different and TOS apply, but were not the point of discussion here.

The problem is, many people posted that he will go to jail or something which is simply false info and should not be propagated here.

It is a hot button topic I guess with the illegal pet trade and whatnot but scaring people into not exercising their rights is the wrong way to go about it.

This board is meant to educate, so please let’s stick to the facts and educate on them. OP and everyone else is safe to travel with their single T’s when moving to Europe as long it is not a restricted species in the welcoming country.

The EU has no regulation on invertebrates, and several countries, like Austria, Germany have no specific regulations on invertebrates, but usually observe endangered animals lists from different countries and will pay attention to the country of origin, to make sure the animal has not been taken illegally from there. In that case, usually the animal will be extradited to the country of origin. So as far as I gather in Australia it is illegal to remove any animals without a permit so there the country of origin is the one that matters more than the country of entry.

In some rare cases, it may be illegal in a single state of a federal republic like germany, but legal in another. So caution is advised at the port of entry.

In general it is advised to do thorough research on the regulations of both the country of departure as well as the destination.

 

[Andrew Clayton]

@Andrew Clayton Man I don’t want to get into an argument, but that cigarette comparison does not apply. You can carry a legal amount of cigarettes without declaring and it is perfectly legal to do so. That is the whole point. And if you cross that legal limit on what you can carry, only then you have to declare, because then it is considered smuggling an illegal amount and is basically charged as tax evasion.

It simply does not apply to this case in any way, since OP was talking about a single spider for private purposes, which is legal, no permit needed. If they ask him if he has a spider he can say yes, it’s a legal spider and that’s that. If they don’t ask he does not need to say anything since he is well within his rights. Airplane companies are of course different and TOS apply, but were not the point of discussion here.

The problem is, many people posted that he will go to jail or something which is simply false info and should not be propagated here.

It is a hot button topic I guess with the illegal pet trade and whatnot but scaring people into not exercising their rights is the wrong way to go about it.

This board is meant to educate, so please let’s stick to the facts and educate on them. OP and everyone else is safe to travel with their single T’s when moving to Europe as long it is not a restricted species in the welcoming country.

The EU has no regulation on invertebrates, and several countries, like Austria, Germany have no specific regulations on invertebrates, but usually observe endangered animals lists from different countries and will pay attention to the country of origin, to make sure the animal has not been taken illegally from there. In that case, usually the animal will be extradited to the country of origin. So as far as I gather in Australia it is illegal to remove any animals without a permit so there the country of origin is the one that matters more than the country of entry.

In some rare cases, it may be illegal in a single state of a federal republic like germany, but legal in another. So caution is advised at the port of entry.

In general it is advised to do thorough research on the regulations of both the country of departure as well as the destination.

My point was you said smuggling had to be something illegal, which it does not, it's basically something that is not declared, all of which is sorted out now as OP has stated that permission has been seeked.

Appreciate the amount of research you have put into this.

So what would be the protocol, considering the amount of Tarantula species listed on Cites. All of which would definitely need some kind of permit. Could you therefore, take one of those saying it was something else?

 

[cold blood]

Hope you don’t run into THAT overzealous guy at customs.

By this you mean the customs guy who's on the ball and doing his job.

 

[CentiPete]

My point was you said smuggling had to be something illegal, which it does not, it's basically something that is not declared, all of which is sorted out now as OP has stated that permission has been seeked.

Appreciate the amount of research you have put into this.

So what would be the protocol, considering the amount of Tarantula species listed on Cites. All of which would definitely need some kind of permit. Could you therefore, take one of those saying it was something else?

If the spider is not listed on CITES, and the other regulations do not apply, then no permit is needed. No need to get into hypotheticals either.

Regarding the member state thing:

Member state of the European Union - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The term is widely used and does apply in many languages, as the state can refer to the nation or the government that is running a particular country. In case of the Union it is the states governing the countries who are participating in said union. So that is why in this context the usage is absolutely okay.

It is all on the web to read. The regulations for importing animals, as well as the definition for member states of the EU. It is important we read those things to take responsibility for ourselves and our peers. I don’t want to be a stickler, just help to share correct information for others who are searching for it. Rules and regulations are also subject to frequent changes, it is important to check before every travel if the rules still apply.

@cold blood
I meant the customs guy that needs to be a pain in the ass and create a fuss when there is no reason for it. They exist everywhere and crave power over others. This situation would be in perfect to exploit and have somebody waiting at customs for hours on end.

 

[Cmac2111]

Call it what you want, this oP is a troll-spammer. Best just to let this thread go.

Agreed, obvious ragebait pretty sure this happened before with OP feeding T’s WC prey full of parasites. Feel for the spiders…

 

[pocock1899]

This is really kind of interesting. And it does sound a bit like a troll post. But, just so I'm clear, you're flying from Canada to somewhere in the EU and you say you are "Declaring" them? I'm pretty confident that you wouldn't be allowed on any domestic or international flights with arachnids if you were flying out of the US on a US airline. That's probably why you go so much pushback early in the thread.

Even though I'm a little skeptical, I'm honestly really curious to see if you can do it. I'm not saying it's impossible but I've some experience shipping and traveling with live wildlife (legally, when I worked for a zoo). How do you plan to Declare live animals to the airlines before boarding? What airline will allow live arachnids in carry-on luggage? There are none that I know of here in the US, but it would be great if there were. The only live animals allowed on planes in and out of the US are dogs, cats and fish, and the fish must be in spill-proof, clear/transparent containers. I'm curious as to what requirement they impose on you for containment of invertebrates during the flight. Please post how it goes, when you notify them of your tarantulas in the carry on luggage.

Have you already gotten permission from the EU country to export tarantulas from CA to them, or are you just going land with them in your bag and hope for the best?

Just as an FYI, if you are going from CA to the EU, you won't be dealing with TSA, that's an American agency. If you travel out of Canada, you should know CATSA is the agency that hires screening contractors that work in the airports..

Finally, what country are you flying to? What are their specific laws regarding the import of non-domestic wildlife? I'll admit that I have not flown to all of the EU, but I know a few countries that have pretty broad regulations of what they'll accept. Nonetheless, most of their agricultural agencies still require veterinary certificates of health for every animal. It's not a difficult certificate to obtain, but I've never seen one for an invertebrate.

 

[Hardus nameous]

If it's in carry-on baggage I would wonder about X-ray scanning or hand checking, but I'm not familiar with current Canadian or European protocols so it might not be a factor.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

@Andrew Clayton Man I don’t want to get into an argument, but that cigarette comparison does not apply. You can carry a legal amount of cigarettes without declaring and it is perfectly legal to do so. That is the whole point. And if you cross that legal limit on what you can carry, only then you have to declare, because then it is considered smuggling an illegal amount and is basically charged as tax evasion.

It simply does not apply to this case in any way, since OP was talking about a single spider for private purposes, which is legal, no permit needed. If they ask him if he has a spider he can say yes, it’s a legal spider and that’s that. If they don’t ask he does not need to say anything since he is well within his rights. Airplane companies are of course different and TOS apply, but were not the point of discussion here.

The problem is, many people posted that he will go to jail or something which is simply false info and should not be propagated here.

It is a hot button topic I guess with the illegal pet trade and whatnot but scaring people into not exercising their rights is the wrong way to go about it.

This board is meant to educate, so please let’s stick to the facts and educate on them. OP and everyone else is safe to travel with their single T’s when moving to Europe as long it is not a restricted species in the welcoming country.

The EU has no regulation on invertebrates, and several countries, like Austria, Germany have no specific regulations on invertebrates, but usually observe endangered animals lists from different countries and will pay attention to the country of origin, to make sure the animal has not been taken illegally from there. In that case, usually the animal will be extradited to the country of origin. So as far as I gather in Australia it is illegal to remove any animals without a permit so there the country of origin is the one that matters more than the country of entry.

In some rare cases, it may be illegal in a single state of a federal republic like germany, but legal in another. So caution is advised at the port of entry.

In general it is advised to do thorough research on the regulations of both the country of departure as well as the destination.

I swore op had lots of Ts did they all die from wc prey now he has one left ?