tarantula intelligence

[mo_2]

this happened to me a long time ago but I diden't have an outlet for my story. About three anda half years ago when my curlyhair was a little less than three inches long and very handleable (I know the opinions on handling T's). I went to pet him before feeding him and he turned so fast I had no time to remve my hand and didet want to whip my hand out possibly paint my wall with him. He diden't bite me though, his pedipalps hit my finger and hi fangs did extend but as if he recognised that I was neither food nor threat he removed his pedipalps from me and even allowed a gentle stroke. I never knew what to think about this was it a sign of intelegence or is there anouther explanation?

 

[Nerri1029]

This post BEGS the question

WHAT IS INTELIGENCE?

We can think, rationalize, predict and all that stuff.. we have inteligence.

Apes have learned to sign and communicate emotions and new thoughts with us.. that is inteligence.

Parrots can speak ( repeat ) words and have an extensive vocabulary..
BUT are they relaying IDEAS or simply responding in a conditioned manner.. ( a highly complex but still conditioned manner????

I have seen video of a New Caladonian Crow actually make a tool:

The crow was given wire to "play"with on previous occasions..
the crow was then given a "bucket" of food that was down in a tube too long for the bird's beak to reach..

this crow stuck the wire down the hole.. and when it didn't raise the bucket.. it dropped the wire.. looked at it.. picked up the wire... jammed it into a crevice.. BENT THE WIRE.. stuck it down the tube and in 3 tries had the bucket out and was eating the food..


IS THAT INTELIGENCE ???
well it's pretty freakin close if you ask me..


BUT a T ??

from the shear lack of a sizeable organ i would have to say no..
are they capable of complex conditioning.. ( as the original post suggests ) maybe..

I vote for mostly innate responses to stimuli..
with a small amount of conditioning possible..

but hey that's me..

 

[becca81]

It probably realized that you were too large to be potential food and didn't bother biting you.

 

[becca81]

I vote for mostly innate responses to stimuli..
with a small amount of conditioning possible..

I'm not even really sure if conditioning is possible. This has went 'round and 'round and tends to wind up with a locked thread.

I agree, of course, that there are innate responses to stimuli. Everything they do is a reaction to something in their environment and/or an instinct.

 

[Nerri1029]

I did say SMALL !!

 

[ScorpionBob]

It probably realized that you were too large to be potential food and didn't bother biting you.

I would agree on this point. Was it possibly conserving venom as well? It is precious(insert Gollum noises) to them is it not?

 

[mo_2]

it was just a curiosity to get other opinions.

 

[Garrick]

eight

it was just a curiosity to get other opinions.

I don't know if it'll end all the "round and round" or the giant capital letters on here, but the most studied opinions on this might come from Fred Punzo. He's spent years thinking about, well, what THEY'RE thinking. There may be a little more going on under the carapace than some suppose.

Hunt him up through the ATS at:

www.atshq.org

or try
fpunzo@ut.edu
Box 5F, Department of Biology
University of Tampa
401 W. Kennedy Blvd.
Tampa, Florida 33606

(or check the U o' T website- I'm sure they've phones now. . .and perhaps even indoor toilets).

Cheers,
Garrick

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

Not enough credit

People really don't give these animals enough credit as far as intelligence goes. I currently have fifty three tarantulas. To me each one has shown a different degree of intelligence. Currently in my opinion my most clever spider is my Haplopelma lividum. She is a very social spider (believe it or not) and when I bring her cage down from the shelf she will come out of her burrow. As I am opening the lid she will come all the way to the top so I don't have to stick my hand down her burrow to get her. I also know about the varying opinions on handling, so please no lectures on why I shouldn't be touching her. Well anyway I have been holding her since she was half an inch. To put it bluntly my Grammastola rosea is more aggressive than my Haplopelma lividum. In fact I would go as far to say that the H. lividum somewhat enjoys getting out. Well everyone knows how aggressive H. lividum is known to be. So the way I see it she has gotten accustomed to being handled, and to me that shows at least memory recall. In my opinion however they only have memory recall to a certain period of time. It seems after a few weeks of not handling they sometimes don't remember (recall) my hand. The fact is that humans can only make an "educated guess" at any animals intelligence level. This goes for any animal. We don't know very much about our own brains so how can we say how intelligent other animals are??

 

[bagheera]

Perhaps the question is, "Are they capable of learning and remembering?" I dunno. I have had many T's, with varying um, personalities. The latest arrival being a 9 y/o B. smithii. I was told that it was often handled. I have handled others of this specie, but have never seen a more laid back T. This one seems like she has learnt that "the big hand" is harmless. Remember that these efficient little predators are so hard wired that they have to 'short circuit' the prey response to mate! And even then they sometimes prey upon their potential mate (it is truly amazing how much spiders are like humans!!) ;P .

 

[Snipes]

Intelligence is what we make of it. We think it is smart that we speak to each other and learn things and can make nuclear bombs and advanced computers. On the other hand, we are destroying the environment, which is our life support system and destroying millions of species that are vital to it. Scorpians have been on the earth of millions and millions of years, and horseshoe crabs have been virtually unchanged since the time of the dinosaurs. Although i believe the "intelligence" of tarantulas lies somewhere in the middle, i would fight to say that humans dont know the first thing about being "intelligent", therefore my opinion on t intelligence is not important.

 

[Snipes]

I dont mean to go off on a rant here

Intelligence is what we make of it. We think it is smart that we speak to each other and learn things and can make nuclear bombs and advanced computers. On the other hand, we are destroying the environment, which is our life support system and destroying millions of species that are vital to it. Scorpians have been on the earth of millions and millions of years, and horseshoe crabs have been virtually unchanged since the time of the dinosaurs. Although i believe the "intelligence" of tarantulas lies somewhere in the middle, i would fight to say that humans dont know the first thing about being "intelligent", therefore my opinion on t intelligence is not important.

But thats just my opinion, i could be wrong

 

[Sting Crazy]

[/QUOTE]and horseshoe crabs have been virtually unchanged since the time of the dinosaurs.

Actually, they've been around much longer than that.

 

[bagheera]

I always did love Horseshoe crabs. Used to pick 'em up the beach when i was a young instar!

 

[rbpeake1]

it was just a curiosity to get other opinions.

I get the feeling although I could not prove it, that some of my spiders recognize me. And I believe they are smarter than people give them credit for.

 

[CreepyCrawly]

Intelligence is what we make of it. We think it is smart that we speak to each other and learn things and can make nuclear bombs and advanced computers. On the other hand, we are destroying the environment, which is our life support system and destroying millions of species that are vital to it. Scorpians have been on the earth of millions and millions of years, and horseshoe crabs have been virtually unchanged since the time of the dinosaurs. Although i believe the "intelligence" of tarantulas lies somewhere in the middle, i would fight to say that humans dont know the first thing about being "intelligent", therefore my opinion on t intelligence is not important.

I agree! If we really were smart, would we be destroying our world? And those "stupid" animals, like horseshoe crabs and scorpians live harmoniously with their environments, and don't cause and trouble within them - that's pretty darn smart!

 

[Sheri]

Intelligent Indeed

I suggest that if you think that raw intelligence is equated with not destroying the planet than humans are the least thought capable species on the planet.

It is a fairytale fantasy argument. Have fun, but that is one trail of breadcrumbs I am not following.

You may as well make the case that the earthworm is the most intelligent...

There seem to be 2 camps of hobbyists.

The romantics, and the realists. I suppose as long as no one starts breeding for character traits, and "cuddleability" I can tolerate these discussions providing I don't really read them.

So please, please people... do not give me cause to come back to this thread to edit, delete, warn, settle or lock it.

Enjoy!

 

[Tarangela]

Well, it is hard to say, one can only offer an opinion. I don't care who ya are, you have NO real way of knowing what is going on in their little minds!

I have a male G. rosea that loves my camel hair brush. When I open his cage, he will come towards me. If I lightly brush his front 2 legs w/ it, he will respond by lifting them back towards me, and come a little closer. It is non-threatening. He will then proceed to come out of the cage onto my hands, and web around a bit. He likes jeans, lol Very very sweet!! I love when they start webbing and get all curious

I do believe, they learn to recall and have the ability to memorize. But then again, that is *my* opinion

 

[moricollins]

Sheri, don't you enjoy having to edit moderate, delete, warn, lock, etc threads? I certainly would in your situation, er perhaps not.

And now to get on topic (what was i saying again?).

I don't think that tarantulas have "intelligence" in the sense that humans have intelligence (that is the ability to reason and deduce things, make informed choices etc). but tarantulas do have advanced sensory organs that dictate their behaviour.

just my two cents (two CDN cents, so that's 2.5 cents American)
Mori

 

[Stan Schultz]

You may as well make the case that the earthworm is the most intelligent...

Actually, it's the white lab mouse. I read all about it in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.