Tarantula enrichment

[campj]

People like to delude themselves into thinking that cold-blooded animals with rudimentary nerves systems want anything more than just fulfilling their basic instincts. Eat, drink, reproduce, and sit around. In other words, the 'exotic pet' equivalent of Al Bundy.

All I have to do is observe them in the wild to know you're right, and while I'm no biologist, I've got quite a bit of observation time in Arizona under my belt. They sit in a dark hole for 15 hours, then they come out of the hole for 9 hours while it's pitch black outside and sit at the mouth of the hole hoping to ambush a passing grasshopper. Besides molting and mating, that's the entirety of their lives for twenty years. As long as those needs are PROPERLY MET (and nobody is arguing that they shouldn't be properly met), that's all they need.

Reminder that OP was wondering if we should be destroying their webs as a form of 'enrichment'. That's the sole example given, and this is what was being discussed. They didn't ask if we should provide an enclosure with dimensions that will facilitate burrowing, didn't ask if the soil composition should attempt to mimic what they live in naturally, didn't ask if we should attempt to replicate nature as closely as possible, etc. NOBODY WAS ARGUING AGAINST THOSE THINGS. Flipping the definition halfway through the conversation and then accusing everyone who was arguing against destroying webs and providing ping pong balls as forms of 'enrichment' of not wanting to properly care for their animals is dishonest. Don't your arms get tired fighting all these strawmen you create, hypocrite? Aren't you afraid of getting hurt if you fall off your high horse? Should we have a discussion about my field of expertise so that I can insult you when it becomes apparent that you aren't as skilled as me?

 

[hypocrite]

All I have to do is observe them in the wild to know you're right, and while I'm no biologist, I've got quite a bit of observation time in Arizona under my belt. They sit in a dark hole for 15 hours, then they come out of the hole for 9 hours while it's pitch black outside and sit at the mouth of the hole hoping to ambush a passing grasshopper. Besides molting and mating, that's the entirety of their lives for twenty years. As long as those needs are PROPERLY MET (and nobody is arguing that they shouldn't be properly met), that's all they need.

Reminder that OP was wondering if we should be destroying their webs as a form of 'enrichment'. That's the sole example given, and this is what was being discussed. They didn't ask if we should provide an enclosure with dimensions that will facilitate burrowing, didn't ask if the soil composition should attempt to mimic what they live in naturally, didn't ask if we should attempt to replicate nature as closely as possible, etc. NOBODY WAS ARGUING AGAINST THOSE THINGS. Flipping the definition halfway through the conversation and then accusing everyone who was arguing against destroying webs and providing ping pong balls as forms of 'enrichment' of not wanting to properly care for their animals is dishonest. Don't your arms get tired fighting all these strawmen you create, hypocrite? Aren't you afraid of getting hurt if you fall off your high horse? Should we have a discussion about my field of expertise so that I can insult you when it becomes apparent that you aren't as skilled as me?

I really have nothing else to say to most of this than I already have; I didn't imply any of these things. I never spoke about breaking a web, I never spoke about pingpong balls. I never spoke directly to OP or about what they were saying. I replied directly to user claims here. You've lost the plot on this discussion my dude and I think it's been a very telling exchange. I'm still not going to coddle your worldview and reframe what words are defined as in science. That's silly.


I've also observed wild Aphonopelma and have considerable length in conversation with other taxon contributors, and frequently talk to doctorate holders in arachnology, focused in behaviour. Truthfully, I don't understand where you're trying to go with this. How are you assessing behaviour to make these determinations? What went into your behavioural analysis and where did you learn these skills? What qualifications make your observations mean anything?

 

[Introvertebrate]

There's evidence that warm-blooded animals in captivity benefit from exercise, handling, and a degree of mental distraction. For instance, taking your dog for a walk or putting a hamster wheel in your rodent's cage. I hear some parrots can go insane if confined for extended periods of time. Call it wishful thinking, but people like to extrapolate and suggest that less evolved critters have similar needs. Those theories just don't fly.

................I'm not sure what any of this has to do with spiders, however.

Thank you for making my point.

 

[hypocrite]

There's evidence that warm-blooded animals in captivity benefit from exercise, handling, and a degree of mental distraction. For instance, taking your dog for a walk or putting a hamster wheel in your rodent's cage. I hear some parrots can go insane if confined for extended periods of time. Call it wishful thinking, but people like to extrapolate and suggest that less evolved critters have similar needs. Those theories just don't fly.

...None of those things are consistently true. For instance, a client may have a dog that is fearful of other dogs, people, noises, and other discriminative cues.... This is why you would need to properly assess and analyse the antecedents and consequences of the behaviours you're being shown... (The ABCs of Behaviour)

This is why some basic form of understanding on the subjects you all are attempting to speak on would really be nice.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with spiders, however.

 

[campj]

I never spoke about breaking a web, I never spoke about pingpong balls. I never spoke directly to OP or about what they were saying.

Well exactly my point, because that's what WE were discussing lol. If I lost the plot, you never found it to begin with, which is what I've been saying ever since you shoehorned your way in here. We were never discussing enrichment as you defined it, you broadened the definition and then started throwing spears at strawmen.

How are you assessing behaviour to make these determinations? What went into your behavioural analysis and where did you learn these skills? What qualifications make your observations mean anything?

Yep, normal eyes and a brain watching an animal do something over and over doesn't count. You need some letters behind your name and some framed pieces of paper on your wall in order for what you see to be of any meaning. Can you hear me from up there, or is your head to far in the cirrus? You're going on ignore, have a good life.

 

[hypocrite]

The classic echo chamber and a whole lot of a nothing sandwich...

 

[Arachnopets]

"most informative arachnid information platform on the internet" known as AB

Why is this in quotes? Are you implying that we have said this?

 

[Anabelle]

Since OP asked about enrichment and gave an example:
“why would you want to just focus on the singular poor example when folks could be advising and helping the keeper grow?”


Some things that I’ve done to hopefully enrich my tarantulas’ lives include things like:

- Novel feeders (including flying feeders and ones that climb smooth surfaces, im also planning to try a feeder in a dig box to allow the T to “hunt” without the risk of losing the feeder into the substrate)

- Adding new substrate materials in piles near web/dirt curtains and hides to see if they incorporate new materials. Same with new foliage or moss pieces.

- Offering more space. This allows me to offer multiple types of hides/retreats or for arboreals multiple ways to use their vertical space to make webbing. I’ve noticed especially when keeping multiples of the same species at similar sizes

I think that some folks here are deliberately taking the word enrichment to mean only things dogs/cats/birds/etc might benefit instead of looking more broadly at things a tarantula might benefit from.

This is supposed to be for questions and serious responses so why are some responses unwelcome just because they’re different or understood the assignment when some responses were really focused on “don’t break web spiders are not smart and don’t need enrichment”

Why aren’t we all looking at enrichment more broadly?

- What do folks here do to provide for their Ts?

- And what if you have a T that isn’t flourishing in a set up you made? Do you take it apart and move the foliage and cork and everything around to make it better for them? It’s kind of like enrichment to promote their webbing/burrowing/building behaviors c:

 

[Introvertebrate]

...........Some things that I’ve done to hopefully enrich my tarantulas’ lives include things like:

- Novel feeders (including flying feeders and ones that climb smooth surfaces, im also planning to try a feeder in a dig box to allow the T to “hunt” without the risk of losing the feeder into the substrate).

A varied diet is healthy. I believe we've got some actual evidence to back that up as well. I wouldn't make it overly difficult for the tarantula, however.

- Adding new substrate materials in piles near web/dirt curtains and hides to see if they incorporate new materials. Same with new foliage or moss pieces.

If you've got tarantulas that like to rearrange and dig stuff up, I can accept that.

- Offering more space. This allows me to offer multiple types of hides/retreats or for arboreals multiple ways to use their vertical space to make webbing. I’ve noticed especially when keeping multiples of the same species at similar sizes.

Adequate enclosure size is important. You'll need to rehouse them as the grow anyway. I wouldn't go overboard however, because then they can't find their food.