Taking care of Tegeneria, dealing with egg sacs

[Davi Bones]

So I found this spider. Oddly enough it was while me and my friend were talking about keeping spiders. So we decided to catch it. We made a habitat for it in a plastic container. So far it hasn't been too difficult. I've been giving her 1 or 2 good sized insects a week. She's been building a nice web. Here's the problem though. She's laid 2 egg sacs. I want to hatch them out of sheer childish curiosity, but I'm really scared about escapes. Partly because I think she might be a hobo spider. I've looked at pictures and I'm almost positive she's Tegeneria, I just can't tell which type.

So here are my questions. First, when will the eggs hatch? If she laid them in autumn, they won't hatch till spring right? Will they hatch early because it's warmer in the house?

Is it possible to make a cage and be 100% sure there will be no escapes?

Would I be better off just keeping her and getting rid of the egg sacs?

If I leave the habitat outside, at what point do you think she'll die of cold? Like it's going down to 45 degrees F tonight, would she die tonight do you think?

Could someone more experienced than me look at these pictures and tell me whether it's a hobo or not?

Just general taking-care-of-spiders advice would be nice too, I'm new at this.


Front side view


The habitat from above


The egg sac (wrapped in rocks/debris)


Top side view

 

[Ciphor]

You're in luck! I'm very experienced with Hobos so I'll toss you out some basics.

First, Hobo spiders (Tegenaria agrestis) have been shown to not be the least bit dangerous to humans. Much research has been performed in recent decades, all showing the spider is neither aggressive, nor venomous. Not that I recommend you do it, but I handle them with no issues. Have for years.

I would not worry about the spiderlings. When they hatch inside a container, they will not be able to balloon away and if you leave them alone they will simply die. Yes, it is ok to stick this spider outside, but make sure it has something it can hide under close to the ground for insulation. They survive right now up in the PNW, where it is getting much colder than 45 at night.

Egg sacs indoors will hatch faster, how much is hard to say, I've had mixed results with indoor hobo sacs. If kept indoors I'd expect a hatch in about 30-60 days. If you stick her outside, and keep her outside, they will hatch in the spring.

Make sure she has water, and feed her once every 2-3 weeks. Hobos can survive long periods without food, I typically feed mine about once a month.

 

[Davi Bones]

Wow thanks, that was really helpful. She definitely doesn't seem aggressive, I was more worried about venomous, since I've been keeping her in my room next to my bed, and I live in a shared house.

Will she die eventually over the winter if I leave her outside? If so, will it make a difference if I move her back in here?

 

[Ciphor]

Wow thanks, that was really helpful. She definitely doesn't seem aggressive, I was more worried about venomous, since I've been keeping her in my room next to my bed, and I live in a shared house.

Will she die eventually over the winter if I leave her outside? If so, will it make a difference if I move her back in here?

Placing her outside with colder temperatures will actually keep her alive longer. The warmer it is, the faster the spiders metabolize, and the quicker they die. If kept outside, fed once every 2 weeks a meal 1/4 the size of the spider, you could see another year of life out of her. If kept inside and fed once every 2-3 weeks you could see another 6-8 months out of her, maybe longer depending on how old she is. Typically Hobos are seasonal and live a year, however in captivity they can live 2 years, I've had many live 24+ months.

Davi, this spider is hard to kill like bruce willis.

 

[Anonymity82]

You're in luck! I'm very experienced with Hobos so I'll toss you out some basics.

First, Hobo spiders (Tegenaria agrestis) have been shown to not be the least bit dangerous to humans. Much research has been performed in recent decades, all showing the spider is neither aggressive, nor venomous. Not that I recommend you do it, but I handle them with no issues. Have for years.

I would not worry about the spiderlings. When they hatch inside a container, they will not be able to balloon away and if you leave them alone they will simply die. Yes, it is ok to stick this spider outside, but make sure it has something it can hide under close to the ground for insulation. They survive right now up in the PNW, where it is getting much colder than 45 at night.

Egg sacs indoors will hatch faster, how much is hard to say, I've had mixed results with indoor hobo sacs. If kept indoors I'd expect a hatch in about 30-60 days. If you stick her outside, and keep her outside, they will hatch in the spring.

Make sure she has water, and feed her once every 2-3 weeks. Hobos can survive long periods without food, I typically feed mine about once a month.

Do they not have venom?

 

[Davi Bones]

Do they not have venom?

Well, all spiders have venom right? But from what I read on the Wikipedia page, whether or not the venom is dangerous to humans is pretty disputed. Some American scientists have theorized that all reported brown recluse bites may actually be hobo spider bites, while some Canadian scientists have reported there to be absolutely no symptoms in humans.


And Ciphor: Why do they live longer in captivity if it's not the temperature? Do they usually get eaten during winter or something? The reason I'm so curious is because I kinda want to see if she interacts with the spiderlings at all

 

[Travis K]

Here is a question.

Are we sure this is Tegenaria agrestis? I was not aware of their range getting into Utah at present.

 

[Ciphor]

Here is a question.

Are we sure this is Tegenaria agrestis? I was not aware of their range getting into Utah at present.

Utah is now in this spiders range. It will continue to expand east.

"The species is definitely marching eastward -- there are healthy populations throughout the western states -- I have documented locality records from Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming and I suspect they will be found in all the states between here (Colorado) and Washington." ~ Paula Cushing, October 2011.

I am certain this is Tegenaria agrestis as I have worked very closely with this species for years raising several generations of offspring, and studying the wild population around the Snoqualmie National Forest.

Well, all spiders have venom right? But from what I read on the Wikipedia page, whether or not the venom is dangerous to humans is pretty disputed. Some American scientists have theorized that all reported brown recluse bites may actually be hobo spider bites, while some Canadian scientists have reported there to be absolutely no symptoms in humans.


And Ciphor: Why do they live longer in captivity if it's not the temperature? Do they usually get eaten during winter or something? The reason I'm so curious is because I kinda want to see if she interacts with the spiderlings at all

Davi,

If you could show me the source of that information here "Scientists theorizing that all recluse bites are actually hobo bites" then I can show you why you would not want to trust that source. This statement makes no sense. The Hobo spider and Brown Recluse Spider have completely different ranges, with zero overlap.

Hobo range: http://bugguide.net/node/view/33976
Brown Recluse Range: http://bugguide.net/node/view/33494

Again, and I know what I am talking about here; All recent research has shown the hobo spider not to be medically significant to humans. There are 2 cases which caused the wrongful escalation of this spider's venom to medical significance.

1) Dr. Vests (not an arachnologist) concluded through his own research that he observed dermonecrosis on shaved european rabbit flesh after forcing envenomations. No one has been able to duplicate this in a lab, concluding his tests were likely contaminated.

2) An older woman was bitten and the spider caught was a verified hobo. The wound however was later tested positive for MRSA, which in a study performed recently it was shown the hobo is incapable of transferring MRSA from itself to a mammal.

Hobo spiders venom when tested shows nothing of concern. When we test the Brown recluse we clearly find sphingomyelinase D which is the cause of the necrosis now known as Loxoscelism.

Do not trust everything on Wikipedia and definitely not on the internet. If you search these forums for Tegenaria agrestis you will find a link to the hemoanalysis on T. agrestis venom.

There are other alarms that sound this off as a myth. When something is dangerous, it tends to be dangerous taxonomically on the family or genus level, not the species level.

Black widows- Dangerous on the genus level, Latrodectus spp.
Brown Recluse- Dangerous on the genus level (to some extend on a broader clad level) Loxosceles spp.
Brazilian Wandering Spiders- Dangerous on the genus level, Phoneutria spp.
Sydney Funnel Web Spider- Dangerous on the genus level, Atrax spp. & also on the family level, Hexathelidae.

The spiders that are myths tend to be stand-alone species with no confirmed bites, and evidence that makes little sense, such as the Hobo Spider, Yellow Sac Spider, The Australian White Tail Spider, and Daddy Long-legs. The venom when tested shows nothing of concern, the claimed bites show no patterns or consistency; Hobos for example are not native to the US, they invaded over ships from Europe. In Europe, hobos have never been of concern, and still continue to not be.

Yes, all spiders (with one exception) have venom. Anyone can react adversely to a certain type of venom for any number of reasons. This is not enough to raise concern however. A common house cat is capable of being more dangerous than a Hobo Spider.

 

[Davi Bones]

Davi,

If you could show me the source of that information here "Scientists theorizing that all recluse bites are actually hobo bites" then I can show you why you would not want to trust that source. This statement makes no sense. The Hobo spider and Brown Recluse Spider have completely different ranges, with zero overlap.

Looking at the wikipedia page, it seems that info came from Dr. Vest's book.


Anyway, you never answered my question, why do they do so well in captivity if not for the temperature?

 

[Ciphor]

Looking at the wikipedia page, it seems that info came from Dr. Vest's book.


Anyway, you never answered my question, why do they do so well in captivity if not for the temperature?

Same reason any animal does better in captivity, a stable safe environment. Many things impact the lifespan of an organism that has a max life expectancy of 2 years. Stress, cold, diet, predators, etc.