T. Apophysis (round 2)

[stewartb]

Did the female lock the points of its fangs into the males tibial apophyses when mating??

Regards,

Stew.

 

[eman]

Just for the record, of course it is possible that I am wrong with my assumptions and or opinions. I should have made that clear in my posts. It is frustrating to see people that think they are THE AUTHORITY on anything. If that is what anyone took from my post, It was not my intention. I was simply stating that the pink boots(easiest to see) charateristic is an easy identifier most of the time. I have seen enough of each to say the slings look very different (in my opinion of course). I am always open to other peoples experiece and figured that anyone overseas probably does have significantly more experience with most T's. To ignore that experience would be ignorant for sure. Hope that clears up what I was saying. That is the great thing about this board, the less experienced(myself included) can learn alot from the wealth of knowlege of others world wide. I am gratefull for that. dave

Thank you for your candid response Dave. I hope I didn't sound too harsh myself.

Like you said, it is great to have an open and honest forum, where we can all learn.

Good luck to you and Greg.

Eman

 

[king7]

would you say this is a blondi or a Apophysis?

 

[FryLock]

would you say this is a blondi or a Apophysis?

Some good ppl on this thread i think they will be able to give you a good idea, meh i would not know.

 

[Steve Nunn]

When you boil this thread down, it amounts to people looking at an image and trying to say, YES, this is this, or this is that, BLAAHHHHHH

Images are a hopeless identification tool and while anyone might try and say, "this is definately", or even, "I think", basically, you're pushing the limits here. Stand up, look at the definitive taxonomic characters for Theraphosa and realise you cannot ID from this image, plain and simple. You can assume, but that is it, to push the argument is naive.

Greg owns the spider, he's had it since it was a juvenile (and yes, while some T.blondi have pink feet as juveniles, it is NO WAY as noticeable as in T.apophysis), you missed that part of your information above. I think the ONLY person with a reasonable idea of what this spider is, is Greg, based on the fact he has the animal in his custody and is not viewing an image, like the rest of you are. There are other distinct striations and such seen in the juvies, between the two species, has anyone asked Greag about those for support to their conclusions?? No, they haven't.

This argument has become moot and repetitive.

Unlsess someone stands up with a defintive character that can be seen from an image this is a waste of time, isn't that obvious by now???

My 2 cents,
Steve

 

[FryLock]

this is a waste of time, isn't that obvious by now???

No i have to disagree there Steve i think this threads great .

 

[Steve Nunn]

No i have to disagree there Steve i think this threads great .

You would Bill !! LOL The only time I see this thread as "great" is if I'm watching the Bold and Beautiful and need some other similar genre to satisfy

That spider deserves to be called "Ridge" or "Thorn", something like that ;P

 

[eman]

When you boil this thread down, it amounts to people looking at an image and trying to say, YES, this is this, or this is that, BLAAHHHHHH

Images are a hopeless identification tool and while anyone might try and say, "this is definately", or even, "I think", basically, you're pushing the limits here. Stand up, look at the definitive taxonomic characters for Theraphosa and realise you cannot ID from this image, plain and simple. You can assume, but that is it, to push the argument is naive.

Greg owns the spider, he's had it since it was a juvenile (and yes, while some T.blondi have pink feet as juveniles, it is NO WAY as noticeable as in T.apophysis), you missed that part of your information above. I think the ONLY person with a reasonable idea of what this spider is, is Greg, based on the fact he has the animal in his custody and is not viewing an image, like the rest of you are. There are other distinct striations and such seen in the juvies, between the two species, has anyone asked Greag about those for support to their conclusions?? No, they haven't.

This argument has become moot and repetitive.

Unlsess someone stands up with a defintive character that can be seen from an image this is a waste of time, isn't that obvious by now???

My 2 cents,
Steve

Steve, I agree with you that it's difficult and sometimes impossible to call definitive shots based on pictures alone... What do you think this is?

 

[David Richards]

Eman

I know you are asking steve, but I think i get the point you are about to make. I would have said that it is an apophysis based on the pic, however, it is most likely one of the T. Blondi slings that you have been refering to. Point well taken, be patient while I eat CROW . Hope I don't choke. dave

 

[Steve Nunn]

Steve, I agree with you that it's difficult and sometimes impossible to call definitive shots based on pictures alone... What do you think this is?

Hi,
This is exactly what I'm saying, I couldn't tell you based on the image alone and my inexperience with the genus as live animals.

I would "presume" your image is of a juvenile T.blondi, based on the build of the spider, but that is a huge guess and in no way something that should be accepted as truth, it's just a mere guess and not enough in ANY way to form a substantial guess at that. Too many variables, such as the instar no. of the spider/ontogenetic phase, instar phase, clinal variation (the pink feet fall into this category), etc...

Perhpas Greg's spider is a T.blondi, perhaps T.apophysis. What I can say without doubt is there is not one shred of evidence to support a finding either way!!!

At first glance, I would of thought T.blondi, but again, an opinion is just that, an opinion. There is no defintive autapomorphic/diagnostic character that has been mentioned thus far, and the reality is until one is given, then all bets are off for us as viewers

I've been doing this for many, many years and the one thing I have learned, is that the more I know and presume to know, the more I understand about true species variation and the common missconceptions in the hobby at present. After working with hundreds, sometimes thousands of one individual species, I'm still, to this day, surprised often at clinal and or morphometric variation and how it can throw me for a loop. This same aspect applies to all theraphosids, given the number of wild caught individuals from these species in the hobby, even moreso. Therefore, I've learnt to follow cladistic analysis for support and assistance in finding characters that are stable and can be used for identification.

There is no doubt at all that the most difficult question facing any mygale systematist, is that of the Theraphosidae. They are THE most difficult mygale family to work on, we are still striving to understand the variation in this family and how to work with that variation at an acceptable level.

Hope this helps
Steve

 

[Mr Ed]

I would be interested in what everyone that has posted so far thinks this is just out of curiousity. dave

ps, i will tell you its identity later

Man, that's a beautiful M. Robustum you have there, I need one of those (actually both sp.)!!! LOL.

 

[eman]

I know you are asking steve, but I think i get the point you are about to make. I would have said that it is an apophysis based on the pic, however, it is most likely one of the T. Blondi slings that you have been refering to. Point well taken, be patient while I eat CROW . Hope I don't choke. dave

You are right Dave, it is blondi (well most likely, unless the male comes back from Rick W. as a tibial-less apophysis!). My friend should be getting a response back sometime soon.

By the way, these slings were actually bred by someone else I know here in Montreal - I just happened to purchase a couple of slings that came from him. I am looking forward to purchasing some more from him some time soon, hopefully!

Again, I don't claim to be the authority here either. I am constantly upgrading my knowledge base on a near daily basis... I'm in the same boat you are bro.

Eman

 

[David Richards]

Mr. ED

:? You lost me.????

 

[Mr Ed]

:? You lost me.????

Sorry, just thought I'd be facetious and ease some of the tension from the thread (it obviously isn't an M. Robustum, and is obviously SOMETHING in the theraposa class). Whatever it is and I won't even throw my guess out there it is a nice T.

 

[king7]

the point i was trying to make was that if my blondi look exaxtly the same as the apophysi at the begining of this thread (which it does) then mine could be an apophysi and not a blondi.if anyone says they look different then they aint lookin at the same pics.

 

[Greg Wolfe]

T. Apophysis...

Look people, I am not bi-polar enough to stuff a male apophysis into a female blondi's tank to see what happens.
I have been doing this for over twenty years, and I should be shot for posting a photo of a blondi and saying, "what a killer apophysis!". Period.
This grand female of mine is an apophysis. She mated with David's male and now we wait for an eggsac.
I laud the photos that have been posted to diffuse any discrepancy. They are excellent reference points. There is no way in hades I would harbor the thought of posting a photo of a T without knowing what it is and carelessly exclaiming what I assume it is, unless I ask for ID opinions.
I will take photos of her with her brood when the event presents itself.
Greg Wolfe/Indiana Exotics

 

[king7]

like i said from the start i wasnt saying it was a blondi,just it looked like mine and i was getting worried that i didnt have a blondi.

so just to clear 1 thing up,only the blondi has the red bits right? :8o

 

[stewartb]

Greg,

Did the female lock the points of its fangs into the male,s tibial apophyses when mating?

Regards,

Stew.

 

[FryLock]

Greg,

Did the female lock the points of its fangs into the male,s tibial apophyses when mating?

Regards,

Stew.

Mr Backer you as persistent as Jeremy Paxman .

 

[hinterwelle]

A very um, interesting thread to say the least. Silly boys, can't we all get along? But yes, this thread died years ago and here I go digging it up. Why? Because I've watched the rest of the movie and now I would like to know the ending. Did Greg's female produce a viable eggsac? If so, how many slings were produced after such an extravagant breeding? And also, did this "stud muffin" male go off to breed again or did he not get so lucky? Come on guys, you left us hangin.

jeremy