Sydney Funnel Webs

[Tony]

hi,
since Aussie T´s are bred for export purposes (and there´s one person having an export permit - no name!) it can´t have been that hard work

Didnt steve have to Captive breed two successive generations for the first offspring to be legally exported?
Sounds like a piece of cake !

 

[Stylopidae]

Also, just because the male Atrax robustus is "more" venomous, doesn't mean the female doesn't have strong venom. And there are other Hexathelidae that could be just as venomous. And the venom strength switches in different species, with the females being "more" venomous than males in some and males "more" venomous in others...

Chris

Let me clarify what I said (because I *think* this part is directed at me).

I don't think female Atrax ssp. would pose as big of a threat as Phoneutria ssp. because the female Atrax ssp. are generally not all that mobile when compared to Phoneutria ssp. when you look at the circumstances which will bring them into contact with humans. Most Atrax ssp. bites I hear of happen to be wandering males.

Am I mistaken on my understanding?

 

[lucanidae]

Psh, we had an Atrax robustus in our lab and that thing is no more dangerous than any other semi-aggressive spider. They aren't that fast...and as long as you aren't stupid with it you aren't going to get hurt. I'm more nervous around Trinidad Chevrons then I was around that thing. Also...it was a pretty boring and fairly ugly non-impressive animal, wouldn't really be worth the cost.

Also.... if they get introduced they could only pose about as much threat as they do in Australia. How many deaths per year do they cause again there? Not many. I'm not saying they should be introduced, but c'mon, we already have Latros all over the U.S. and we aren't that worried.

 

[cacoseraph]

but c'mon, we already have Latros all over the U.S. and we aren't that worried.

you and i, we, aren't that worried

you should see some ppl's faces when i tell them that just about every web that i can see in their garage is a black widow.

you should REALLY see their faces when i go pluck one out of web and start playing with it. i really need to stop doing that, though. long enough timeline and i will get bit =P







as far as the risk of atrox... i bet house cats are responsible for more deaths in australia than atrox are. cats have filthy claws and scratch ppl tons.

 

[hamfoto]

Nah Cheshire, it wasn't meant for you. It was just general statement. And I absolutely believe that Phonuetria is much more dangerous than Atrax or Hadronyche. Speed, agility and general nastiness is why...

Chris

 

[Stylopidae]

I guess reputation gets the better of me occasionally, too.

What about environmental concerns?

 

[Rydog]

On a different note, mambas do chase you, I have seen it growing up in S. Africa, theres stories also about how mambas followed people home, almost stalking them, I think that part is folklore though. Any introduced species is a bad species nuff said.

 

[Venom]

Olá,

interesting...

But not correct, to a breeders opinion and experience:

Phoneutria sacs can be incubated at least in temperatures ranging from 20°C to up to 42°C.
Both documented extreme values have been used here successfully for producing offspring.

In regard of sensitiveness of young specimens...

I have raised slings of P. nigriventer and P. keyserlingi with both afforementioned temperature extremes and with moisture levels ranging from 100% down to not even 40% (and: NO, i didn´t supply a water dish).
The spiders can tolerate this for quite some time apparently without taking any damage.

You might be right about your winter weather conditions, though, but this said, you have to keep in mind that these spiders are highly agile and will seek spots with appropriate climatic values if the weather wouldn´t be to their liking.

In regard of several US states at least the mentioned species P. nigriventer and P. keyserlingi are to my opinion and experience without any doubt capable to thrive in the wild.

These spiders are pretty adaptive....

Take care!

Greetings,

Stefan

Most of the USA sees quite a temperature drop during winter. Accoording to the USDA climate map, you'd need to be in either Florida, southern Arizona, or So-California for it to stay above freezing during the winter. Halfway up Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi, and you are seeing winter temperatures of -12 to -15 Celsius. ( 10 - 5 Fahrenheit ). That's pretty cold for anything South American. And those are just the AVERAGE winter lows. Michigan is rated at -23 to -29 Celsius, but in an exceptional winter, I have personally seen -40 Celsius. And that's without the windchill factor. I really don't see Phoneutria surviving outdoors during a N.American winter, except in the very warmest regions. Even our native Loxosceles doesn't typically endure the winter in states north of Kentucky.


Here is the climate map, so you can see for yourself what they'd be in for:

http://www.permed.com/Climate_zones.htm

Just remember to convert those numbers to Celsius.

 

[Stefan2209]

Hi Venom,

i´m at least to some degree aware of climatic differences in the US.

However, as there are climatic differences, there are adaptive variations of behaviour possible especially with the mentioned two Phoneutria species.

If we break it down to survival in nature per se i fully second your statement about limitation to your "sunshine states".
If you take behaviour and capability of adaptation into account, you might get surprised.

If you check with reports from the natural environments of the mentioned species you´ll find that these are not shy creatures. They choose the spot they need or just like - and defend it if needed.

These things are pretty effective and don´t care too much about what humans think about they "might need".
In fact, many deaths that occured in the past with captive raising may to my personal opinion be linked to keeping them in conditions "they need" (in the opinion of the keeper).

Phoneutria has been rare in the hobby for many years even in Europe. This situation has and is still changing. Unfortunately i came to the impression that the knowledge of most keepers doesn´t come up with the market availability.

Phoneutria IS keepable. Phoneutria CAN be extremely dangerous, which is not meant in regard of their toxin potency but in behavioural aspects, in adaptivity, in agility.
I´ve seen things here over the last years which i, personally, would have taken for being totally impossible if i wouldn´t have seen them for myself.

The real risk with Phoneutria is underestimation. No one should find out the hard way.

Greetings,

Stefan

P.S. No, i´m definitely not gonna go any further into details about this topic. I´ve talked this through with the only other breeder i´m aware of of the really "hot" species and this is it.
Every else: stay safe.

 

[Venom]

Hi Venom,

i´m at least to some degree aware of climatic differences in the US.

However, as there are climatic differences, there are adaptive variations of behaviour possible especially with the mentioned two Phoneutria species.

If we break it down to survival in nature per se i fully second your statement about limitation to your "sunshine states".
If you take behaviour and capability of adaptation into account, you might get surprised.

If you check with reports from the natural environments of the mentioned species you´ll find that these are not shy creatures. They choose the spot they need or just like - and defend it if needed.

These things are pretty effective and don´t care too much about what humans think about they "might need".
In fact, many deaths that occured in the past with captive raising may to my personal opinion be linked to keeping them in conditions "they need" (in the opinion of the keeper).

Phoneutria has been rare in the hobby for many years even in Europe. This situation has and is still changing. Unfortunately i came to the impression that the knowledge of most keepers doesn´t come up with the market availability.

Phoneutria IS keepable. Phoneutria CAN be extremely dangerous, which is not meant in regard of their toxin potency but in behavioural aspects, in adaptivity, in agility.
I´ve seen things here over the last years which i, personally, would have taken for being totally impossible if i wouldn´t have seen them for myself.

The real risk with Phoneutria is underestimation. No one should find out the hard way.

Greetings,

Stefan

P.S. No, i´m definitely not gonna go any further into details about this topic. I´ve talked this through with the only other breeder i´m aware of of the really "hot" species and this is it.
Every else: stay safe.

Fascinating post, Stefan.

I take it that Phoneutria sp. are in some respects, like Portia sp? Able to shift strategies--for survival and defense? I know they are more responsive to threats than most species--they turn and face potential attackers, even when one walks in a circle around them; and that they often go on a pre-emptive strike when an imminent attack is sensed. Are you saying that, in addition to this, they learn from a threat over time, increasing their library of defensive stragies?

I understand what you said about seeking out a shelter / climate that suits them, and I don't doubt they could weasel their way into garages, basements, and other heated or semi-heated environments set up by humans. That's why I added the caveat of the "natural" environment, and "surviving in the wild." Even if released, the woods and natural settings--those too far away from any human-established resources to allow the spiders to make use of them--would be too cold in winter nearly everywhere in the USA. In short, they might survive winters close to humans by moving in, but out in the wilderness, they will not build up a population.

this has already happened in the USA with regard to Loxosceles sp. Recluse spiders don't survive in the wild farther than southern Ohio--unless they have a nice heated building to hole up in. L.reclusa has been found in Flint and Lansing Michigan--waaay outside their range. For that matter, L.leata, the Chilean recluse, established a colony in one of Harvard University's heated buildings, in Massachusetts. But, you'll not find either species running around in the wild. So yes, I accept that they could survive indoors--just not outside. I'd love to know more about their defensive habits, however.