Substrate Peat Vs. Cocoa Fiber Vs. Eco Earth

[rasputin]

Ok. One is for an avic. Coco fiber is probably not what you want. I only started having an avic a few weeks ago, but I think I'm going to trade that out for something else--mold might be an issue.

Actually, both sphagnum, coco fiber resist mold. Sand, if maintained properly, also resists mold.

but sphagnum is moss and how will adding sand make it easier to burrow in if it is not moist

1) Sphagnum is a leafy moss that absorbs and retains moisture like those paper towels they have commercials for.
2) When you blend sand while moist it actually binds with what you're blending it with in such a manner that it can be burrowed in both wet and dry. Just remember to fluff it as you prepare it in the enclosure.

 

[tarantulagooroo]

so how about for the avic just straight verm. and keep it moist or something that holds moisture well like sphagnum mixed with verm.

and for the chaco just coconut fiber and sand mixed so he will be able to burrow yet be dry

and also rasputin how will he be able to burrow in the coconut fiber and sand mixed if the sand is dry?

 

[rasputin]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend sand as a base. Maybe an additive, but not a base.

Yeah, not a base for tarantulas but I didn't recommend it as such - additive, yes.

 

[tarantulagooroo]

my bad i didnt see that you had answered my question i just repeated my self hahaha

 

[maitre]

Is this the type of sphagnum moss you're referring to?

I have this stuff but don't use it as a substrate. I use my blend and will use this on top of that in small amounts to aid in providing humidity. I've never used it on its own though

 

[tarantulagooroo]

im not sure so what do i need to do for the chaco ? and what do i need to do for the avic.

 

[rasputin]

so how about for the avic just straight verm. and keep it moist or something that holds moisture well like sphagnum mixed with verm.

and for the chaco just coconut fiber and sand mixed so he will be able to burrow yet be dry

and also rasputin how will he be able to burrow in the coconut fiber and sand mixed if the sand is dry?

I don't use vermiculite for anything (short of, say, reptile egg incubation) so I can't say anything there. I use organics only so I would mix it with the coco. For my A. avicularia, I use a coco/sand mix and it retains moisture quite well. She only goes down to it to get to her water dish or when she tackles her prey and rolls across the substrate (it's the funniest thing to watch her do too).

You aren't using the sand as a base, just a partial mix with the coco fiber being the base. I answered that in my 2 part statement above.

 

[tarantulagooroo]

okay im sorry but start over what for the chaco and what for the avic.

 

[satanslilhelper]

how does this sound for the avic. just put some verm. and coconut fiber and keep it moist or something that holds moisture well

for the chaco coconut fiber mixed with some sand for a dry setting but easy to burrow in

This is what I do for all of my T's that require higher humidity. I do basically a 1/2 and 1/2 mix of vermiculite and coco fiber. I haven't had any problems thus far. If you look at my profile you can see all of the T's that I currently own. I have five different avics at this time and a T. blondi which all require the higher humidity levels.

 

[jebbewocky]

Yeah, not a base for tarantulas but I didn't recommend it as such - additive, yes.

Ah, I didn't really read your post in great detail I'll admit.
I don't really think coco fiber is mold resistant though. Or it could be that the lower quality stuff isn't. Either way, it doesn't smell so good when freshly rehydrated, and it doesn't work good for burrowing.

But yes, sand would be fine as an additive.



Really, substrate is one of those things that people go around and around on a whole lot. I'd say as far as substrate goes:

-Vermiculite is fine as a base, but not used by itself for burrowers as it does not hold burrowing shape very well.
-Same goes for coco fiber, and mold may or may not be more of an issue in humid setups. Also, don't mix it in the tub!
-Adding sand as an additive is fine, but don't use as a base
-Never, EVER use any kind of bark as a substrate. Using bark tubes for hides is fine, just not as substrate.
-Topsoil is probably one of the best kinds of substrate, but is also one of the hardest to get without additives.

 

[jebbewocky]

This is what I do for all of my T's that require higher humidity. I do basically a 1/2 and 1/2 mix of vermiculite and coco fiber. I haven't had any problems thus far. If you look at my profile you can see all of the T's that I currently own. I have five different avics at this time and a T. blondi which all require the higher humidity levels.

Do you use isopods? I just have been having some issues with mold.
Maybe I'm wetting it too much. :?

 

[rasputin]

Is this the type of sphagnum moss you're referring to?

I have this stuff but don't use it as a substrate. I use my blend and will use this on top of that in small amounts to aid in providing humidity. I've never used it on its own though

That's sphagnum all right. You can mix it or put it on top, it retains moisture well to provide for a humid environment.

im not sure so what do i need to do for the chaco ? and what do i need to do for the avic.

If I had a camera that worked, I'd get some pix to show you what I'm talking about in my previous statements about the sand/coco mix and how I've got my avic. I don't have any more xeric tarantulas so the only reference point I have for that would be some of my scorpions but that's a completely different mix for a stronger burrowing medium as they don't web.

 

[tarantulagooroo]

once again tell me your opinion what for the avic and what for the chaco golden knee remember the avic needs to be humid and the chaco needs to be dry but be able to burrow

 

[tarantulagooroo]

ok so what would your substrate be if it was your chaco
and what would your substrate be for you avic im getting confused

 

[rasputin]

Ah, I didn't really read your post in great detail I'll admit.
I don't really think coco fiber is mold resistant though. Or it could be that the lower quality stuff isn't. Either way, it doesn't smell so good when freshly rehydrated, and it doesn't work good for burrowing.

But yes, sand would be fine as an additive.

Yeah, that dehydrated crap stinks - if it stinks, it's as good as garbage. Check out the stuff I linked in an earlier post, that coco fiber is top notch. Coco fiber actually is quite mold resistant but I guess it depends on the quality you get - it also is fairly resistant to odor.

Really, substrate is one of those things that people go around and around on a whole lot. I'd say as far as substrate goes:

-Vermiculite is fine as a base, but not used by itself for burrowers as it does not hold burrowing shape very well.
-Same goes for coco fiber, and mold may or may not be more of an issue in humid setups. Also, don't mix it in the tub!
-Adding sand as an additive is fine, but don't use as a base
-Never, EVER use any kind of bark as a substrate. Using bark tubes for hides is fine, just not as substrate.
-Topsoil is probably one of the best kinds of substrate, but is also one of the hardest to get without additives.

Yeah, substrates are a hot topic for debate. Jeb, I'm just adding my input on this - I'm not trying to argue but rather backing up some statements and refuting others with my personal experience and opinions (that's my disclaimer).

I've always looked at vermiculite as something with the burrowing consistency of styrofoam pieces - it even looks like it.

Yeah, not tub or sink mixing - bad idea in general.

Sand, only as an additive for tarantulas.

I don't use any bark or wood aside from cork bark because most wood is susceptible to mold and bacteria and cork is resistant and renewable.

Topsoil mixes tend to have some sort of organic matter that may be susceptible to mold or bacteria so I just avoid it as a general rule.

 

[tarantulagooroo]

ok but i just want to know the mixture you would use for each

 

[satanslilhelper]

Do you use isopods? I just have been having some issues with mold.
Maybe I'm wetting it too much. :?

I haven't yet. It's definitely a worthwile investment if your having mold issues. I moisten the soil. Don't soak it. I let it dry out and then moisten again. Keep toying around with your setups and you will figure out what works best for you.


And remember isopods are there to prevent mold. They won't eat pre-existing mold.

 

[rasputin]

ok so what would your substrate be if it was your chaco
and what would your substrate be for you avic im getting confused

Sorry about the confusion.

For me personally, I would do the coco/sand mix for the chaco at probably 70/30 (coco at 70%, sand at 30%) - I'd mix them together, moisten them, continue mixing and then fluff the mix in the enclosure and let it dry out. The one thing that should be noted is that even though the chaco is from a drier climate, you will still need a certain amount of humidity to maintain - do this by misting the enclosure ever so often (a humidity gauge is recommended for all your enclosures).

For the avic, I would do a higher ratio of sand than I would for the chaco or substitute sand with sphagnum and just add water as needed to keep the humidity going. I actually use the sand/coco mix with the avic I have right now.

Again, this is how I do things. Others will offer many other ways and many of them will be equally as valid - just go with the mix/substrate recommendation you feel most comfortable with based on facts presented.

 

[tarantulagooroo]

thanks alot sorry for all the questions and thanks for your time

 

[rasputin]

thanks alot sorry for all the questions and thanks for your time

If we don't ask questions we may never get the answers we need. I don't think anyone whose offered their input has a contention with answering your questions. Best of luck.