Substrate and low PH

[RottweilExpress]

So I bought a 150L bag of sphagnum/peat to use as substrate. Seems like many reptile and invertabrate owners do that in this town (and worldwide). I'm a bit sceptic though, as I've been using some potting soil earlier, but grew tired of mold problems. Now I check the declaration of the sphagnum, and it says that it holds a PH value between 3.4-4.6 which makes it kind of sour. At least I think so. If I read this right my bag is about 4.5 PH, but that's not for certain. A guy in a petstore around here told me that some buddy of his had a snake that got all red and sore on the belly, which made them all put some chalk in the peat for safer use.

I'm about to use the peat for my Scolo's, scorps and soon to come, tarantulas. What's your experience on this? Do I need the chalk? What's a good natural PH for these animals?

No, nothing chemical has been added to the product.

 

[ErikH]

The low ph is what makes sphagnum moss resistant to mold. I don't know about any harmful effects to invertebrates, but I would think if you added something to raise the ph of the substrate, wouldn't you be more likely to get mold?

 

[RottweilExpress]

The low ph is what makes sphagnum moss resistant to mold. I don't know about any harmful effects to invertebrates, but I would think if you added something to raise the ph of the substrate, wouldn't you be more likely to get mold?

Well yes, that seems likely. I will bake it, and additional potting soil for the plants in 150 degrees celcius for about 30 minutes to kill off spores and critters. But yeah, mold is mold. I'd rather have that than scolded bellies though

 

[ErikH]

I'm no expert, but I would think the snakes red belly was likely belly rot, caused by the substrate being too damp, or not being cleaned of feces an urates, rather than having a ph that was too low.

 

[RottweilExpress]

I'm definetly no expert either. But risking a little baby scolopendra living in that...

 

[rattler_mt]

***A guy in a petstore around here told me that some buddy of his had a snake that got all red and sore on the belly***


prolly cause the peat got soaked and the snake stayed wet to long. i had the same problem when a ball python tipped its water dish on to its newsprint bedding while i was out of town for a week. a snake being kept on wet substrate is what causes this 99% of the time, not low ph

most forest soils are acidic. low ph should not hurt forest inverts, damp peat moss should not be acidic enough to cause any problems

 

[Alissa]

The only animals you should avoid using a peatmoss substrate with are amphibians like salamanders.

It's okay for inverts, it's what I use for all of mine (mixed with potting soil because I like the look better.)

I agree with everyone else that the belly rot of the snake was most likey caused by the substrate being too wet and soiled, not because the substrate was peat.

 

[rattler_mt]

actually the reason that you dont use peat with amphibs is that it occationally breaks down into a slimy mess and the fact that peat moss is sometimes full of impurities which wont matter if your keeping it slightly damp for inverts but with the constantly waterlogged conditions of dart frog tanks and carnivorous plant pots it can cause real problems. in these situations "aged, leached peat" is best yah cant buy it yah have to make it yourself. this is why coconut husk fiber is really popular for dart frogs, it doesnt break down as fast as peat and is also resistant to mold.

 

[RottweilExpress]

Thanks a lot for the answers guys. I'll repress my urge to add chalk then, and give the mold a tougher time. But how about the "roasting" the sphagnum in the oven for a while before using it then?

Let me tell you, in the potting soil I used, I've got earthworms, white hairthin worms, what-the-hell worms, strange insects, mites and you fkn name it. And mold. And no, I didn't leave it to its own for ages, just a wet month with an emp in it. No, he's perfectly fine, and the tank is not crawling, but it's becoming it's own ecosystem, one tiny bit at a time, haha. There's even 7 small crix that's growing up together...

Also, Alissa how much soil and how much peat in the mix?

 

[ghost6303]

i 'perminantly borrowed', hehe, a huge compressed cube of some organic peat that they sell at the store i work at. didnt have to bake it or nothing i just mixed it 75/25 with some saw-dust-like bedding i bought at petco for some rediculous price before i came here and read about better substrates. it works just fine for me. you can use 100% peat or mix it whichever you prefer. i like the coloring when i mix it with the wood shavings.

 

[rattler_mt]

there is a thread somewhere around here on sterilizing soil. personally i dont do it(i WOULD NOT attempt it in a house, peat is actually a fuel source like coal, just not as good, at the very least if done right your house will stink)

IMHO sterilizing soil causes problems and doesnt help. from a couple years of keeping dart frogs i view a "lil ecosystem" as a good thing. ive got springtails, isopods, different worms along with who knows what kind of microbes and fungi in the soil. ive got "soil" that has been in one of the tanks, soaking wet(no moving water) for over 14 months, no noxious smells, no slime, no out of control mold(other than for the first few weeks after the tank was set up which is normal). a mini ecosystem is a GOOD THING it should help keep problem mites and stuff under control

 

[eman]

a mini ecosystem is a GOOD THING it should help keep problem mites and stuff under control

How true! That is what I call a healthy ecosystem... Thanks for sharing.

 

[Alissa]

actually the reason that you dont use peat with amphibs is that it occationally breaks down into a slimy mess and the fact that peat moss is sometimes full of impurities which wont matter if your keeping it slightly damp for inverts but with the constantly waterlogged conditions of dart frog tanks and carnivorous plant pots it can cause real problems. in these situations "aged, leached peat" is best yah cant buy it yah have to make it yourself. this is why coconut husk fiber is really popular for dart frogs, it doesnt break down as fast as peat and is also resistant to mold.

That's interesting. I had no idea why you shouldn't use peat with amphibians, I just remember reading not to on caudata.org

 

[rattler_mt]

ive never had a problem with it if i leach it which is basically rinsing it and squeezing the water out with your hands several times with a couple water changes to get rid of the impurities and extra stuff though its always room temp water so its never "sterilized" most potting soils recommended for use with ampbibs are actually heavily peat based. i have some dart frogs that have been on a peat based soil for over a year with no ill effects. anymore though for saturated soils i use coco-peat for the main ingredient.

one problem that just occured to me, maybe they say no to peat because of accidental ingestion when the ambhib eats? in small amounts its harmless but maybe there have been some cases of impactation? dont know how you would get around this problem with amphibs though as most must have a damp substrate. my various frogs(some quite small) have never had an issue though even when picking off fruit flies on the bare soil