Substrate? And how to soften it

[Ultum4Spiderz]

One of the caveats of top soil is that you should not tamp it down or it becomes too solid. There will be regional variability on 'top soil' composition, so your results may vary. Coco fiber or peat should be tamped down firmly, of course, but I believe OP uses top soil.

I might have enough coco fiber to add a small Layer to the top of my enclosures .

How does this stuff end up in your enclosures? I’m so confused. You’ve obviously been interested and kept tarantulas for so long, according to your post history. That foam doesn’t eventually need to get out, it needs to get out now. It never should have been in there. You live in Ohio, there’s no reason you can’t have proper set ups for your animals. Your posts are super upsetting, you’ve been given this advice over and over again. I think you should rehouse your tarantulas to a new owner and start over when you have the proper space and money to care for them. I’m not trying to sound mean, but your spiders are suffering because of the choices you made.

It’s temporary holding tank that’s so it doesn’t risk climbing to the top and falling . The problem is being so allergic to urticaria hairs. I need to get all non hair possessing new worlds and ow.

 

[Pyroxian]

I might have enough coco fiber to add a small Layer to the top of my enclosures .

It’s temporary holding tank that’s so it doesn’t risk climbing to the top and falling .

You're doing it again. You've been given really solid and very specific suggestions and are completely ignoring it. Compressed bricks of coco fiber are less than four bucks at big box pet stores (petco/petsmart/etc). Ten bucks buys enough to fill a 20L halfway using only coco. Ten more bucks should buy you SOMETHING that is pet safe to replace that polystyrene (Styrofoam) chunk. Take it out immediately, expanded polystyrene foam (EPS) can off-gas pentane, and unless it's a food-safe or explicitly pet-safe product it is almost certainly treated with either mold inhibitors or flame retardants or both.

Stop being cheap and lazy and put forth some minimal effort and money to fix the things you KNOW are wrong here. Nobody is saying "go buy a custom glass enclosure" or telling you you should use some expensive rare minerals for substrate. Sorry if that comes off harsh, but you seem determined to ignore the advice you're being given when it's said gently...

 

[aarachnid]

If you're too broke to give them a proper house, give them to someone who can. Your husbandry hasn't improved in the year and two months since you asked this question the first time. This isn't fair to them; they have no control over anything.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

One of the caveats of top soil is that you should not tamp it down or it becomes too solid. There will be regional variability on 'top soil' composition, so your results may vary. Coco fiber or peat should be tamped down firmly, of course, but I believe OP uses top soil.

Top soil caused like all my issues so I should switch to something softer or go 50/50 or something after sifting out anything hard .
So styrofoam has chemicals in it ? Well I’ll throw it out fast then .
That’s the only container with it .
And I was told top soil is then best and clearly Home Depot sells terrible soil.

 

[G. pulchra]

Top soil caused like all my issues so I should switch to something softer or go 50/50 or something after sifting out anything hard .
So styrofoam has chemicals in it ? Well I’ll throw it out fast then .

Is that a serious question, does styrofoam look natural to you?

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

You're doing it again. You've been given really solid and very specific suggestions and are completely ignoring it. Compressed bricks of coco fiber are less than four bucks at big box pet stores (petco/petsmart/etc). Ten bucks buys enough to fill a 20L halfway using only coco. Ten more bucks should buy you SOMETHING that is pet safe to replace that polystyrene (Styrofoam) chunk. Take it out immediately, expanded polystyrene foam (EPS) can off-gas pentane, and unless it's a food-safe or explicitly pet-safe product it is almost certainly treated with either mold inhibitors or flame retardants or both.

Stop being cheap and lazy and put forth some minimal effort and money to fix the things you KNOW are wrong here. Nobody is saying "go buy a custom glass enclosure" or telling you you should use some expensive rare minerals for substrate. Sorry if that comes off harsh, but you seem determined to ignore the advice you're being given when it's said gently...

3 bricks of coco fiber is $8-10 at my pet supplies plus . But I can get enough. I could always put them in smaller enclosure 10 gallons maybe too large .
I had way more success prior to switching from coco fiber to top soil.

 

[Pyroxian]

Top soil caused like all my issues so I should switch to something softer or go 50/50 or something after sifting out anything hard .
So styrofoam has chemicals in it ? Well I’ll throw it out fast then .
That’s the only container with it .
And I was told top soil is then best and clearly Home Depot sells terrible soil.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that topsoil caused all your problems. Topsoil doesn't come with Styrofoam blocks or pointy large triangular wood "things" or bottle rockets or large random roaches in it (all things you've posted pictures of in your tanks)

Rather I would argue that simple poor husbandry and your willingness to put random crap into your enclosures likely contributed. I don't really have anything else to say at this point, other than to once more re-read the suggestions given here and your previous thread about substrate, but this time do more than just read, this time actually do the things advised. Or admit you don't know enough (and are unwilling to learn) to safely keep T's and give or sell them to someone who will give them the care they deserve.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

Is that a serious question, does styrofoam look natural to you?

Guess cured tree bark or eh

Is that a serious question, does styrofoam look natural to you?

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/is-styrofoam-safe.47817/
Maybe. Be possible to make it useful for something , this old thread said styrofoam has to be heated up or tampered to be dangerous .
I will remove the spider from the tank and make it a total new container .
I removed everything dangerous from that 20 gal a year and a half ago , so top soil must had been too coarse .

 

[Pyroxian]

Guess cured tree bark or eh

http://arachnoboards.com/threads/is-styrofoam-safe.47817/
Maybe. Be possible to make it useful for something , this old thread said styrofoam has to be heated up or tampered to be dangerous .
I will remove the spider from the tank and make it a total new container .
I removed everything dangerous from that 20 gal a year and a half ago , so top soil must had been too coarse .

That old thread is specifically about the foam background in an enclosure for a pet, it is pet-safe (probably is a low-voc formula, not treated for fire or fungal resistance) and is not about just any random foam.

(I think exo-terra actually uses expanded polypropylene EPP not EPS which is what the white bead Styrofoam is)

Short version - just because one type of foam product is safe, you can't just assume they all are. Expanded foam is used for a lot of things, some are pet-safe, some very much aren't, especially in a small confined space.


The best thing you could do in my opinion would be to post pictures after you redo the tank but before you put the spider back in, and only reintroduce the spider if knowledgeable folks here give it the all-clear. No reason to have to redo it twice.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

That old thread is specifically about the foam background in an enclosure for a pet, it is pet-safe (probably is a low-voc formula, not treated for fire or fungal resistance) and is not about just any random foam.

(I think exo-terra actually uses expanded polypropylene EPP not EPS which is what the white bead Styrofoam is)

Short version - just because one type of foam product is safe, you can't just assume they all are. Expanded foam is used for a lot of things, some are pet-safe, some very much aren't, especially in a small confined space.


The best thing you could do in my opinion would be to post pictures after you redo the tank but before you put the spider back in, and only reintroduce the spider if knowledgeable folks here give it the all-clear. No reason to have to redo it twice.

Would could you use in places of corkbark until I can afford cheap supply online somewhere of cork bark ? I don’t trust outside wood too much anymore, despite seeing it in old rob c. Videos .
I’ll use up my last brick of eco earth is it cheaper on amazon then pet supplies plus?
Actually a outdoor log if I recall caused the injury’s on the first obese pokie .it was too rough , for a tree spider how ?? I burned that log FYI .

Really should had bought a lot of cork back when I had the money .
The top soil could be coarse why ? Is Home Depot selling me trash . Should I get premium top soil ? Or stick to switching to eco earth .
May mix them both but got to sift top soil .

I’ve noticed some of older batches of top soil actually are worse then, The new stuff I got I may just throw it all out mostly to avoid the hairs . The question is what to do with the dirt as in not to get any urticating hairs on me ?
How often do you completely replace soil ?

 

[Pyroxian]

I’ve noticed some of older batches of top soil actually are worse then, The new stuff I got I may just throw it all out mostly to avoid the hairs . The question is what to do with the dirt as in not to get any urticating hairs on me ?
How often do you completely replace soil ?

*sigh*
I feel like a broken record. As was suggested last year when you asked, simply dump the old substrate into a trash bag. If you're very sensitive, wear long sleeves and gloves. Extremely sensitive you might add safety glasses and a dust mask.
I believe the consensus is that unless you have a specific reason to replace it (nematodes, excessive mold, trash added by the keeper, decaying feeders etc) and you do periodic spot cleaning, then the substrate should be fine indefinitely. Certainly long enough that the cost of soil or coco coir shouldn't be a significant concern for ongoing husbandry. My family's oldest T is going on 7 years with the same coco substrate, with just a bit added here and there to dry things when we've occasionally overflowed the water dish a bit too much.

 

[Mirandarachnid]

The question is what to do with the dirt as in not to get any urticating hairs on me ?

Take the enclosures (spiders, decor, and all) and GIVE THEM TO SOMEONE ELSE. The new keeper can replace everything, and you don't have to worry about ever contacting urticating hairs again.


Eventually you will end up with no tarantulas, either they will suffer and slowly die under your care, or you can give them away and let them thrive under another persons care. If you want to do the best thing for your animals, rehome them. You can always come back to the hobby when you've improved your situation.

 

[undeaddeaths]

I mean this in the nicest way possible...
If after all this you still think it's your soil and not your very questionable husbandry
It is not that hard, to flip over the bag of soil you want to buy, and just check the ingredients...

Soil ingredients vary by region as someone previously said. Which means one bag of example Scott's Top Soil in California, is going to have different ingredients in say Ohio.
Most soil at Home Depot is VERY trash. Only some stores in some states have SAFE bags of soil.
You have to check the ingredients to see if it has any type of compost, artificial fertilizers, natural fertilizers (horse manure, bat guano, ect), wetting agents, and other additives.

IF you can find a bag that has SAFE ingredients, it's going to be the cheapest stuff there. Going to be only a few bucks a bag and possibly marked as filler dirt for holes.
Then if you've found a bag it would be best to sift out any large debris. So wood chips, rocks, and in your case bottle rockets.

Then once you've sifted out any debris, it would also not be a bad idea to bake the dirt in the oven.
I personally bake my sub at 325 Fahrenheit and check it every 10-15 minutes to stir it around and make sure it doesn't burn.
This will kill off any critters that hitched a ride as well as mold any mold spores.

 

[Ultum4Spiderz]

I mean this in the nicest way possible...
If after all this you still think it's your soil and not your very questionable husbandry
It is not that hard, to flip over the bag of soil you want to buy, and just check the ingredients...

Soil ingredients vary by region as someone previously said. Which means one bag of example Scott's Top Soil in California, is going to have different ingredients in say Ohio.
Most soil at Home Depot is VERY trash. Only some stores in some states have SAFE bags of soil.
You have to check the ingredients to see if it has any type of compost, artificial fertilizers, natural fertilizers (horse manure, bat guano, ect), wetting agents, and other additives.

IF you can find a bag that has SAFE ingredients, it's going to be the cheapest stuff there. Going to be only a few bucks a bag and possibly marked as filler dirt for holes.
Then if you've found a bag it would be best to sift out any large debris. So wood chips, rocks, and in your case bottle rockets.

Then once you've sifted out any debris, it would also not be a bad idea to bake the dirt in the oven.
I personally bake my sub at 325 Fahrenheit and check it every 10-15 minutes to stir it around and make sure it doesn't burn.
This will kill off any critters that hitched a ride as well as mold any mold spores.

Ok I’ll cook the substrate , I was told to do that exact thing for outdoor wood bark . Is it still safe to use bark from outdoor with this method ? Anything you can buy to coat the bottom of the wooden so it does not mold ? It seems none of my spiders using eco earth ever had any issues . All top soil not properly prepared .
Do you use a steel baking sheet for soil or what ?
Does eco earth need baked also ?

 

[Pyroxian]

I am just about ready to give up. You are picking and choosing the things you read, only paying attention to what you want to hear. This will not end well for the spiders.

 

[undeaddeaths]

Just cooking any soil isn't gonna make it safe
You need to check the bags for any additives....as I said...
Then IF it's safe and you've sifted out any debris, THEN you can bake it
I just use aluminium foil pans

You are picking and choosing the things you read, only paying attention to what you want to hear.

I completely agree he is just ignoring most of the useful information given to him, picking and choosing...
Hopefully, we can get thru to him otherwise RIP his spiders..

 

[damhan]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think this op is just trolling the forum for a laugh....?

 

[aarachnid]

Even if he isn’t, I don’t think giving advice is helpful. He hasn’t taken proper care of his animals for years, even if he’s temporarily rehousing them in messed up enclosures to get a rise out of people on here and then putting them back.

 

[cold blood]

NEVER bake substrate...sterilization is BAD!

 

[TwiztedNinja]