Steatoda?

[Cavedweller]

As I was leaving my mom's house this evening I found a little spiderweb next to her door. Much to my delight, the occupant appeared to be Steatoda triangulosa, whose markings I am quite fond of. I'm planning to return to moms house to collect the spider tomorrow. I'm assuming I can care for it like a widow?

I've found very mixed information regarding Steatoda venom. Apparently there are no known bites from triangulosa, but if Steatoda is a fairly hot genus I'll just let this one go outside instead of keeping it.

 

[edgeofthefreak]

No expert, but I think they're not-so-hot. They're an extremely popular spider in and around people's homes. In fact, a friend of mine had been "wild caring" for one in his plants near his front door. When he showed it to me, all proud of having kept it alive through a harsh Canadian winter, I found him 3 more with 5ft of the one he called "his". The other three had eggsacs, multiples for each Steadota.

From what I recall, not including allergic reactions, a bite from Steadotas brings local mild swelling, slight burning, usually subsiding within a few hours at most.

 

[Spidergrrl]

According to Wikipedia, "The triangulate cobweb spider is known to prey on many other types of arthropods, including ants (including fire ants), other spiders, pillbugs, and ticks. It preys on several other spiders believed to be harmful to humans, including the hobo spider and the brown recluse."

Any spider that eats fire ants is tops in my book!

Spidergrrl (Paula)

 

[Hanska]

Steatodas are not "hot". Even the more potent ones are not much worse than a bee sting.
They are however very useful housemates and very easy spiders to keep in captivity. I keep S.grossa and S.castanea an have a thriving population of S.bipunctata all over the house.

And yes you can keep them like widows.

 

[Cavedweller]

From what I recall, not including allergic reactions, a bite from Steadotas brings local mild swelling, slight burning, usually subsiding within a few hours at most.

I'd been reading that Steatoda grossa's bite is pretty nasty, so that had me worried about others in the genus.

Any spider that eats fire ants is tops in my book!

That's exactly what I thought when I looked em up on Wikipedia! I don't think I'll feed mine ants though, since people use ant poison around here.

Steatodas are not "hot". Even the more potent ones are not much worse than a bee sting.
They are however very useful housemates and very easy spiders to keep in captivity. I keep S.grossa and S.castanea an have a thriving population of S.bipunctata all over the house.

And yes you can keep them like widows.

Then it looks like I have an enclosure to set up

Edit: Aw nevermind, mom said the spider's gone

 

[The Snark]

Let's just keep things semi accurate. Steatoda has a venom very similar to latrodectus. Both spider venoms produce the effect Latrodectism and both are treated by the same antivenin. However, going by all account reputably reported, the steatoda venom is weaker and it is suspected doesn't deliver as much. I can't figure that one out. Same sized spiders, same general mechanics, same general physiology should equal same venom delivery.

 

[Cavedweller]

My understanding is Latrodectus has particularly large venom glands? There's no reference for that fact on Wikipedia though, so it could be wrong.

I searched around moms house for the Steatoda, couldn't find it. I found several smaller spiders though, kinda tempted to raise one and see if it is an immature Steatoda.

 

[edgeofthefreak]

I searched around moms house for the Steatoda, couldn't find it. I found several smaller spiders though, kinda tempted to raise one and see if it is an immature Steatoda.

Could they be Parasteatoda? They're not quite half the size, same basic temperament and housing, I'd wager. They were the staple office spider at my last employer - at an office. There was one every 6-12" along the baseboards.

Same sized spiders, same general mechanics, same general physiology should equal same venom delivery.

Don't you have 2 cats, raised identically, yet resulted in very different cats in the end?

^ I kid. Two individuals is hardy a comparative control group vs two separate species. According the laws of evolution, the Latro's were able to up their venom with little challenges, whereas the Steatoda's found themselves quelled in some manner. Must be some crossed wires somewhere....

 

[The Snark]

Don't you have 2 cats, raised identically, yet resulted in very different cats in the end?

^ I kid. Two individuals is hardy a comparative control group vs two separate species. According the laws of evolution, the Latro's were able to up their venom with little challenges, whereas the Steatoda's found themselves quelled in some manner. Must be some crossed wires somewhere....

4 cats.
Mom: normal cat cat that does cat like cat things in a cat like manner.
See Cow, surrogate mom: far far gone in a gecko psychosis. Every waking moment is spent hunting geckos. There must be a gecko lurking behind every door. Once tested her one evening. Let her out on the porch to scope geckos, then in the window in case one had come in, then back out the door... 7 times in one hour. 14 times over the course of a 3.5 hour billiard match.
Gnarly: Freddie Mercury fan. Also likes Bob Goldthwaite. Tests gravity regularly. Cats and people are objects to gain greater height.
AJ: see Marvin, the paranoid android.

Considering that the latrodectus venom is 7 extremely exotic sophisticated venoms, some of which target very specific animals, there are dozens of evolutionary possibilities. My theory is there was one origin species that diversified with the steatoda being an offshoot. There were probably many evolutionary dead ends as well. Just look at the end products we have today. Very hardy surviving in extremely hostile environments, (why does the Hesperus and Hasselti that are native to the desert have a venom that targets crustaceans?), prolific, highly adaptable, and capable of taking a vast assortment of varied food sources. The steatoda came along for the ride from a wildly successful origin?

 

[Cavedweller]

Could they be Parasteatoda? They're not quite half the size, same basic temperament and housing, I'd wager. They were the staple office spider at my last employer - at an office. There was one every 6-12" along the baseboards.

I've got no clue, I'm generally not interested in keeping bugs that are too small to see well. I'm impressed by people who do keep the super tiny stuff. Someday I'll save up and get a fancy camera with a macro lens to explore the bugs tiny unseen world.

 

[jecraque]

Could they be Parasteatoda? They're not quite half the size, same basic temperament and housing, I'd wager. They were the staple office spider at my last employer - at an office. There was one every 6-12" along the baseboards.

What? You must be thinking of the size of Steatoda grossa. Parasteatoda gets considerably larger than Steatoda triangulosa, which stay pretty small IME.

 

[edgeofthefreak]

What? You must be thinking of the size of Steatoda grossa. Parasteatoda gets considerably larger than Steatoda triangulosa, which stay pretty small IME.

In all honesty, without this forum, I have no one to talk spider with in real life. So there's an awesome chance that the smaller guys from my old office were Steatoda and my friend's much larger is actually Parasteatoda. And there's just as good a chance that I'm seeing the same species over and over, and calling them different.

Who'd care to play a game with me?

This is what I call Parasteatoda tepidariorum:


And a less great shot of what I'd call Steatoda triangulosa:
There were four of these in the area, all were about 25% bigger than the one above...

 

[Cavedweller]

That second one seems similar to what I found. It's always so cool to find spider molts in the "wild".

 

[Smokehound714]

They do cause similar symptoms to a widow bite, just much less severe. I consider them medically significant, however, and if you have heart problems, a bite from a female can be problematic.

if you're healthy it will be no more than an annoyance.

 

[Spepper]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but how bad is parasteatoda venom? The same as steatoda?

 

[Smokehound714]

I don't mean to derail the thread, but how bad is parasteatoda venom? The same as steatoda?

Dunno, probably far weaker.. probably stronger, never been bit lol.

 

[Cavedweller]

They do cause similar symptoms to a widow bite, just much less severe. I consider them medically significant, however, and if you have heart problems, a bite from a female can be problematic.

if you're healthy it will be no more than an annoyance.

Oh thanks for that tip! I'm on medicine that lowers my heartrate, probably shouldn't mess around with that sort of venom then.

 

[The Snark]

Oh thanks for that tip! I'm on medicine that lowers my heartrate, probably shouldn't mess around with that sort of venom then.

At the least, make sure you are wearing your medic alert tag before you mess.
I mean, there you are on your back in the bathroom, a nice shade of sky blue, making gork noises, and everyone around is babbling about spiders. We bang in some epi and your pulse is a rock at 60 and doesn't budge. Then we have to take your medicine cabinet apart, check the night stand, the kitchen cabinets, and interview all your friends and relations until great aunt Hermione suddenly remembers you have a heart condition.....

 

[jecraque]

In all honesty, without this forum, I have no one to talk spider with in real life. So there's an awesome chance that the smaller guys from my old office were Steatoda and my friend's much larger is actually Parasteatoda. And there's just as good a chance that I'm seeing the same species over and over, and calling them different.

Ahh, gotcha. The first picture is S. triangulosa, and the second is also a Steatoda, but it's tough for me to tell which one.

Parasteatoda can have a really wide range of sizes for the adult females. I've seen very small females with egg sacs and ones that are the size of small-to-medium adult L. mactans. This series of shots shows the pattern very well (http://bugguide.net/node/view/554990/bgimage), but they can be lighter or darker than this one.

 

[edgeofthefreak]

Ahh, gotcha. The first picture is S. triangulosa, and the second is also a Steatoda, but it's tough for me to tell which one.

Parasteatoda can have a really wide range of sizes for the adult females. I've seen very small females with egg sacs and ones that are the size of small-to-medium adult L. mactans. This series of shots shows the pattern very well (http://bugguide.net/node/view/554990/bgimage), but they can be lighter or darker than this one.

Thank you, jecraque. I see what you see now. The abdomen pattern of the second is near identical to the first, but the second is bigger. Also, the second picture is of terrible quality, so thank you for the attempt at an ID. I'll need to change some picture labels now....