Spider bite, wanna guess the species?

[AzJohn]

Considering this occurred in GG Calif, I still feel it is very unlikely this is a Loxosceles bite, and still am leaning toward a true bug.

[.

I know this thread is a little bit old, their are three species of loxosceles in the west L deserta and L arizonica and L apachea. Being CA it is most likley L deserta like the doctor said. I bet all these species are called brown reclues by most people who haven't taken the time to look up the difference. They all cause similar types of bite wouds as L reclusa

 

[Venom]

I'd like to add that it 100% is NOT a yellow sac spider bite. While mild fever and nausea are common symptoms of Cheiracanthium envenomation, I have never seen a bulls-eye pattern develop, and the bite always stings immediately. The extent of the bite, and the joint-pain and trembling would never be the result of the cytotoxic bite of C. inclusum, which doesn't have the potency to become that extensive, nor the neurotoxic potential described by Snark.

I'm leaning toward some kind of bacterial condition. You aren't even showing the classic Loxoscelism symptoms. A recluse bite does NOT get a pimple of pus---it SINKS inward, but does not swell upward into a pimple. Sac spiders produce a pimple, but are ruled out for other reasons. Your bite should be caving in, to form a crater/ caldera shape, if it were a recluse. The bulls-eye discoloration is OK for a recluse, but the rest is not. This looks, to me, like either a one-in-a-million atypical recluse bite, or a bacterial problem--and probably the infection. It's definitely not a sac spider though.

 

[Ciphor]

My 2 cents

Just throwing it out there. Ignorance of spider venom, has always been an issue, and even more so in places where people profess to be an expert.

Loxosceles is a dangerous genus. They are known for bulls-eye bite patterns. The major differences are the less verulant Loxosceles spp. leave only the red bulls-eye such as L. deserta, (found in CA primarily) with all the pain and fevers; While Loxosceles reclusa leave the same bulls-eye pattern, followed by an attack on the flesh by a dermanecrotic pathogen present on this species.

Loxosceles reclusa does not have the most virulent venom of this genus. That award goes to Loxosceles laeta, which can be found in southern CA.

It is very, very important to note that only about 1 in 20 Loxosceles bites cause any damage or pain. And of those, an even smaller amount lead to a dermanecrotic wound.

If there were 2 visible puncture wounds, big fat bulls-eye (size of bulls-eye is very relevant in IDing the culprit, understanding this would have ruled Lyme disease out right away), and the onset of symptoms was fast... it fits the description of this spiders bite perfectly. Rick Vetter has published some very enlightening papers on the Loxosceles genus, and they are worth reading. http://spiders.ucr.edu/myth.html

Note: Only in cases were dermanecrosis has started does the flesh "sink inward" as the decay taking place leaves little room for bacteria to fester. In a case where no pathogen has entered the bloodstream to cause a necrotizing wound, there will be plenty of food for bacteria to eat, so normal swelling would occur.

To recap, there are 3 types of Loxosceles bites that can occur. A dry bite, no pain, no symptoms. You probably would never know you got bit. A venomous bite, where a large bulls-eye sets in quickly with pain and high fever. And finally the dreaded necrotizing bite, when the spider carries a nasty pathogen. All the symptoms of a regular bite occur (bulls-eye, high fever, local pain), followed by skin color turning grey, and the inevitable dermanecrosis.

Without seeing the spider you can never be 100%. However the symptons you exhibit are exactly like those described in well documented non-necrotizing Loxosceles bites.

---------- Post added 10-03-2011 at 07:28 PM ----------

You aren't even showing the classic Loxoscelism symptoms

Loxoscelism is a condition that occurs in addition to the normal bite symptoms. Loxoscelism is uncommon in documented Loxosceles bites. It is because of internet images that this type of bite has become so popular in literature, while it is far less popular in reality compared to a typical Loxosceles bulls-eye bite.

---------- Post added 10-03-2011 at 08:03 PM ----------

Sticky traps are best.

Know that bites are very rare. You just got really unlucky. Fogging will only kill your current inhabitants, if you are in an area where the culprit occurs, you can not fog that away. I would suggest trying to determine where a sticky trap will work best. Cracks, with evidence of dead bugs (small black rough balls, maybe the size of a pin head or smaller) should be trapped. Try and think of where the warmth of your home leaks to your garage and other areas. They will seek out the warmth, and this area will be high traffic. Watch for bugs in the day time. If you find a spot where many bugs frequent, a spider is likely not far behind awaiting nightfall.

 

[The Snark]

Just throwing it out there. Ignorance of spider venom, has always been an issue, and even more so in places where people profess to be an expert...
To recap, there are 3 types of Loxosceles bites that can occur. A dry bite, no pain, no symptoms. You probably would never know you got bit. A venomous bite, where a large bulls-eye sets in quickly with pain and high fever. And finally the dreaded necrotizing bite, when the spider carries a nasty pathogen. All the symptoms of a regular bite occur (bulls-eye, high fever, local pain), followed by skin color turning grey, and the inevitable dermanecrosis...

We are all bumbling around in the dark here. We need information from the medical assesment. But I would ask those experienced in spider bites, how often does the bite develop puss in substantial quantities. What would resolve most of this particular incident would be the lab report on an elevated white blood cell count. So the question is, how often are spider bites accompanied by an active bacterial infection?

 

[Tanner Dzula]

We are all bumbling around in the dark here. We need information from the medical assesment. But I would ask those experienced in spider bites, how often does the bite develop puss in substantial quantities. What would resolve most of this particular incident would be the lab report on an elevated white blood cell count. So the question is, how often are spider bites accompanied by an active bacterial infection?

Only from personal experience, i don't know how often, but it does happen.

While i live in arizona, i had been moving houses a few years ago, and in the process of pulling out old boxes out of my garage, i was bit without knowing it.

Within a day it had started to swell, while these bite itself was ( from what an entomologist was able to tell) not from a very venomous spider, it did develop a pretty nasty infection. did have to have it drained and filled with gauze an wrapped for 2 months with it constantly having to be pulled and re-wrapped every few days at the ER.

So while they determined the bite itself was not from a spider that was very venomous, or if it was, it did not have a very adverse reaction on my arm, but the puncture itself did quickly develop the infection, also most likely due to the process of moving/kicking up dirt/dust/and the humidity levels at the time of year.

So while i don't know how common it really it, it definitely is possible and i can personally say, it is Extremely Annoying to have to deal with once it happens.

 

[The Snark]

Before leaping to the conclusion the puncture wound is a spider bite and venom is present, how about adding a little logic and common sense to things? Have you thoroughly washed your hands before and after touching or cleaning an infected area, after going to the bathroom, after blowing your nose, before handling and eating food and after handling animals, including domestic pets? If the answer is no to any of those, a pathogen, possibly staph is almost certainly present in the wound*. Usually the body deals with it but it is so common it's almost unavoidable.
After taking that fact into account, by all means consider spider venom present as well. Also take into account there are several million deaths from pathogen infections every year but less than 10 from spider bites. And of course take into account spiders eat raw corpses, many of which are known pathogen carriers.

* Staph is present on the skin or in the nose of one third of the people on the planet.

 

[The Snark]

Or you could look at it mathematically.
That red angry puncture wound.
Chance of it being significant venom from a spider: ~ <1 : 10,000,000*
Chance of it being infected by a pathogen: ~1 : 1

*There are countless millions of animal bites/stings every day.

 

[Toxoderidae]

Why was this resurrected? I doubt the OP from 5 years ago cares anymore..