so i had a thought.

jimip

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Oct 26, 2010
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103
a t in a tank in you basement is just one expesive flight away from being in its natural habitat right? i mean say i lived in africa and i wanted let my obt go in its natural invorment it would make it? my roommate says they become demsticated in a sense and that it wouldnt know how to manage. i respect him as a person but in this area i think its a load of bull. the fact ( from my point of veiw) is that there behavior doesnt change from cb to wc and no matter how long you keep them in a kk or tank or shoe box or vile they act to there standard means to me they are still wild. any thoughts?
 

Kirsten

Arachnoknight
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Jan 9, 2010
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As long as you send it along with enough underwear and a telephone calling card it can use to ask you to send more money, it should be fine :/

Really? These creatures don't become "domesticated", imho.
 

Vespula

Arachnodemon
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Jul 27, 2010
Messages
707
Hmm... They really don't become domesticated, as say a dog or a cat would. But I personally wouldn't recommend releasing. If it came into contact with any pathogens in your home, it could transfer them, right?
 

jimip

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Messages
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im not flying to africa to put my obt back in the savanna. im just disagree with my roommate and decided to see what everyone thought. imho every t i have is still a wild t and that means it doesnt matter where it is it will act the same and could fend for its self in the wild.
 

ErinKelley

Arachnoknight
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imho every t i have is still a wild t and that means it doesnt matter where it is it will act the same and could fend for its self in the wild.
I agree with this, as long as the environment is working with them.
 

Najakeeper

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I agree with this, as long as the environment is working with them.
A CB T is not used to the hard life outside, it lacks the immune system of a wild T that gets build in time. It has also skipped the natural selection that a specific habitat provides therefor it would be somewhat weaker and more prone to parasites and diseases. But other than these issues, they will easily find/built shelters and find food as these are wild animals in essence.
 

Wachusaynoob

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A CB T is not used to the hard life outside, it lacks the immune system of a wild T that gets build in time. It has also skipped the natural selection that a specific habitat provides therefor it would be somewhat weaker and more prone to parasites and diseases. But other than these issues, they will easily find/built shelters and find food as these are wild animals in essence.


Do we even know if they have an immune system?

Say I (for example) bring my G.Rosea To a habitat that had a sufficient enough weather system ( None or short cold season) And let it go...It will thrive. Assuming there's enough food, The T will Try and find a safe spot to make a bunker. (of course wont thrive as a species because mates- and the fact that they take years to mature)

What the OP is saying, is that if you were going to bring said T to its Natural habitat in which the species was exported from and let it go, It would and could Find a mate and a food source.

Yes, there's a chance of a spread of pathogens and potentially harming the species...but thats all technical, right?
 

jimip

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103
this was more hypothetical i want all my ts thats why id pay for them upfront like i did
 

codykrr

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A CB T is not used to the hard life outside, it lacks the immune system of a wild T that gets build in time. It has also skipped the natural selection that a specific habitat provides therefor it would be somewhat weaker and more prone to parasites and diseases. But other than these issues, they will easily find/built shelters and find food as these are wild animals in essence.
Wow...strong claims.

Firstly, Tarantulas DO NOT become domesticated. They are not like cats and dogs.

Secondly, if you released a healthy adult tarantula back into it natural environment chances are it will survive just as the "wild ones" do.

please, explain why you think they would be more vulnerable to parasites, and diseases. They are just as vulnerable if not more in captivity, because of stagnate water(from some poor owners) infected feeders(from crap pet stores) and the insecticides humans like to spray about.

They are confined yes, but not tame. they are very much so still wild.

I know of several people on the boards who have found Aphonopelma sp. with eggs took them in incubated them and released all the captive hatch spiderlings. The area we did so is still thriving with them.

While yeah, you may have SOME loss, the survival of these creatures I feel is being way underestimated.
 

jimip

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Messages
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the way i see it is if nurse back a wild animal with minimal contact or diet change it will be relased just fine. so to can tarantulas, a healthy tarantula could go back. also in my thoughts is the fact that if we took proper care of them we deffeat natural selection, which could cause some weakness of the species
 

Wachusaynoob

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Wow...strong claims.

Firstly, Tarantulas DO NOT become domesticated. They are not like cats and dogs.
I agree.


please, explain why you think they would be more vulnerable to parasites, and diseases. They are just as vulnerable if not more in captivity, because of stagnate water(from some poor owners) infected feeders(from crap pet stores) and the insecticides humans like to spray about.
After reading and re-thinking I dont think they would be..Unless we could prove an immune system. Does DKS happen in the wild? I wouldnt think so (and we still dont know exactly what causes it...) But most cases something got on them or around their tanks..Maybee they'll take dks with them and infect their whole population??

Or maybee they'll be fine.




While yeah, you may have SOME loss, the survival of these creatures I feel is being way underestimated.
Yeah, but say a certain species is disapearing due to smaller forests/exportation (some cultures EAT them!!:barf:) if someone was trying to re-install them into that area you would need not a few eggsacs, but a couple seeing as how most the slings wont make it.. and quite a few adults to level out the same-sized pray and whatnot for the slings...

It would take years.
 

Najakeeper

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Messages
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Wow...strong claims.

Firstly, Tarantulas DO NOT become domesticated. They are not like cats and dogs.

Secondly, if you released a healthy adult tarantula back into it natural environment chances are it will survive just as the "wild ones" do.

please, explain why you think they would be more vulnerable to parasites, and diseases. They are just as vulnerable if not more in captivity, because of stagnate water(from some poor owners) infected feeders(from crap pet stores) and the insecticides humans like to spray about.

They are confined yes, but not tame. they are very much so still wild.

I know of several people on the boards who have found Aphonopelma sp. with eggs took them in incubated them and released all the captive hatch spiderlings. The area we did so is still thriving with them.

While yeah, you may have SOME loss, the survival of these creatures I feel is being way underestimated.
I am not gonna act like I am an expert on Arachnid immune system but I am a geneticist/microbiologist and I understand how immune systems work for most organisms. There is an inherited component and a gained component while you talk about immunity. For example American Indians were extremely susceptible to the diseases that European people brought because they have never experienced them. So a P.metallica sling that hatched in captivity and reached maturity in captivity in Switzerland will not have the gained defenses against a bacterial infection that infects tarantulas in India, therefor it will not be ready for it when it is released.

Finding an egg sack in Texas and raising them in Texas and releasing them in Texas is not the same situation that I hypothesize about.

Of course I base this on theoretical knowledge and assumptions. I am not aware of any studies of this kind and I may be wrong.

On the other hand, I agree about the domestication part, tarantulas do stay wild.
 
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webbedone

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Aug 27, 2010
Messages
410
stick your hand in the tank with your obt and try poking it a little it will let you know if its wild or not.
 

Najakeeper

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stick your hand in the tank with your obt and try poking it a little it will let you know if its wild or not.
She just ran into her burrow! Damn it, do I have a DONBT now? (domesticated orange non-bitey thing) :d
 

PrimalTaunt

Arachnobaron
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Messages
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Of course they could survive if released in their natural environment. They can even survive if released in an area that they are not native to if the conditions are rights. Proof of point: B. vagans and A. avicularia colonies in Florida.
 

Arachnos

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Dec 29, 2010
Messages
13
a t in a tank in you basement is just one expesive flight away from being in its natural habitat right? i mean say i lived in africa and i wanted let my obt go in its natural invorment it would make it? my roommate says they become demsticated in a sense and that it wouldnt know how to manage. i respect him as a person but in this area i think its a load of bull. the fact ( from my point of veiw) is that there behavior doesnt change from cb to wc and no matter how long you keep them in a kk or tank or shoe box or vile they act to there standard means to me they are still wild. any thoughts?
Your roomate is correct in a sense but also not even close.

Domesticate -to tame (an animal), esp. by generations of breeding, to live in close association with human beings as a pet or work animal and usually creating a dependency so that the animal loses its ability to live in the wild.

In order for his statement to be true it would take multiple generations of captive breeding, I would say a few hundred to possibly thousands of years of being kept in the same type of captive bred enviroment before it would start to lose it's innert sense of survival.(Since no species of T has been in captivity and being bred for more then 50 or so years it does not apply.) Would it still be able to feed? Yes, it would still be able to carry out all the duties it preforms in the captive bred enviroment. After the point of thousands of captive bred generations my opinion would be it would be a bit harder for the said Tarantula to survive in the wild. Since none of us have the time to prove that theory.. It seems to be a moot point. :?
 
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Great Basin Ben

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Oct 2, 2010
Messages
86
Is this how Brachypelma vagans now inhabit Florida wild ecosystems? I imagine after natural disasters like hurricanes, floods, and tornados, ALL SORTS of pet store inventory has the potential to be distributed throughout a wide range. Seeing as how Florida, is our most Central American like ecosystem in North America, it would stand to reason that captive bred, and store kept species that favored a complimentary ecosystem, would probably tend to flourish, while those that weren't able to withstand climatic extremes, would likely die, or become predated upon.
 

codykrr

Arachnoking
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Sep 22, 2008
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I agree.




After reading and re-thinking I dont think they would be..Unless we could prove an immune system. Does DKS happen in the wild? I wouldnt think so (and we still dont know exactly what causes it...) But most cases something got on them or around their tanks..Maybee they'll take dks with them and infect their whole population??

Or maybee they'll be fine.






Yeah, but say a certain species is disapearing due to smaller forests/exportation (some cultures EAT them!!:barf:) if someone was trying to re-install them into that area you would need not a few eggsacs, but a couple seeing as how most the slings wont make it.. and quite a few adults to level out the same-sized pray and whatnot for the slings...

It would take years.
DKS is believed to be caused by contamination through contact with pesticides/insecticides/ flea and tick prevenatives such as frontline...ect.

I also stated a "HEALTHY ADULT" would most likely survive. I never said anything about releasing an infected or contaminated tarantula. Though there are more than a few times people have saved their Ts from DKS. via force molting.

I am not gonna act like I am an expert on Arachnid immune system but I am a geneticist/microbiologist and I understand how immune systems work for most organisms. There is an inherited component and a gained component while you talk about immunity. For example American Indians were extremely susceptible to the diseases that European people brought because they have never experienced them. So a P.metallica sling that hatched in captivity and reached maturity in captivity in Switzerland will not have the gained defenses against a bacterial infection that infects tarantulas in India, therefor it will not be ready for it when it is released.

Finding an egg sack in Texas and raising them in Texas and releasing them in Texas is not the same situation that I hypothesize about.

Of course I base this on theoretical knowledge and assumptions. I am not aware of any studies of this kind and I may be wrong.

On the other hand, I agree about the domestication part, tarantulas do stay wild.
I think you are over thinking it....;)

Tarantulas and spiders, live for one purpose. TO SURVIVE.

This mean they can, will, and have adapted to survival in many and numerous situations..

case and point. Florida B. vagans. Also someone had to catch a WILD caught tarantula and make it adapt to captive living conditions. This just shows how easily they do adapt.

Also, the question was "can a tarantula from captivity survive in the wild".

so it makes my point of me and friends re-releasing Aphonopelma henzi, back into the wild after more than a year in captivity very valid.

The only thing I would actually think would be affected by captive living is seasonal changes. for instance. if you raise an OBT in your home, it will rarely experience temps above 80F. let alone a monsoon, or a complete rainy season. therefore it would have to adjust.

Like I said, tarantulas are hard wired to survive. plain and simple.
 

jimip

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Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
103
DKS is believed to be caused by contamination through contact with pesticides/insecticides/ flea and tick prevenatives such as frontline...ect.

I also stated a "HEALTHY ADULT" would most likely survive. I never said anything about releasing an infected or contaminated tarantula. Though there are more than a few times people have saved their Ts from DKS. via force molting.



I think you are over thinking it....;)

Tarantulas and spiders, live for one purpose. TO SURVIVE.

This mean they can, will, and have adapted to survival in many and numerous situations..

case and point. Florida B. vagans. Also someone had to catch a WILD caught tarantula and make it adapt to captive living conditions. This just shows how easily they do adapt.

Also, the question was "can a tarantula from captivity survive in the wild".

so it makes my point of me and friends re-releasing Aphonopelma henzi, back into the wild after more than a year in captivity very valid.

The only thing I would actually think would be affected by captive living is seasonal changes. for instance. if you raise an OBT in your home, it will rarely experience temps above 80F. let alone a monsoon, or a complete rainy season. therefore it would have to adjust.

Like I said, tarantulas are hard wired to survive. plain and simple.

well worded thats along the same lines i was thinking.
 
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