Snake Question

[BedroomEyzOfBlu]

Thank you Mina, I appreciate your supportive post.

Good luck with ur BP

Rosana

 

[Beardo]

I'm sorry if my opinion offended you. Thats not my concern though. I tell it like I see it and any responsible snake owner knows that housing multiple snakes in one enclosure, especially North American colubrids which are commonly cannabalistic is not a good idea. Just because you have done it without occurences for x amount of years does not mean anything. I'm sure I could walk across the street without looking many many times without getting run over by an automobile, but does that mean I should promote the idea of doing so? Its simply not a recommended husbandry practice among those who are truly knowledgable about snake care.

If you have nothing nice to say to me in the future - keep it zipped!

And if you can't take the heat when you post that you are engaging in much-maligned husbandry practices in the herp community, then don't project your irresponsibility for all to see.

You can say that I'm being "mean" or "nasty" or whatever silly epithet you'd like to apply to my rebuttal of your publicly posted negligence involving a live animal, but I have found that generally when you call someone out on subjects such as this, all they have to say in return is that the opposing party is being inexplicably negative for no reason and that "they have done blah blah for x amount of time blah blah" when anyone keeping said animals who knows their rectum from a hole in the ground knows better than to do so.

Take my posts however you wish....but when live animals are being subjected to subpar care and you publicly flaunt it as if you have done something substantial, YOU are the one to blame for the backlash you may/probably will receive.

 

[BedroomEyzOfBlu]

Wow David, who exactly are you trying to impress here? lol certainly not me. First off - re-read my post, it was not a SUGGESTION from me to Mina on how she should keep hers, it was a post about how we kept OUR corn snakes.

You seem to get off on tooting your own horn as loud as possible - who am I to stop you from having fun the only way u know how. Your opinion means diddly to me - I was merely putting you in your place for the way you went around disrespecting me in ur post. I guess you can't handle that and need to again try to belittle me to make yourself look bigger and better - bad news, it didn't work.

If you get off on offering your so called opinion in a disrespectable manner, that's fine - just don't involve total strangers. If you don't approve of the way someone does something - and the end result was damage or death - then I can say your post would've been more acceptable.

However, in my particular case, you neglected to get all the facts and went off on me half-cocked - which is apparently how you handle a lot of posts in here - I just look at where the comments come from.

Your response to my initial post and subsequent post is the same as saying that all pple in a certain nationality/gender/race are wife beaters, or thieves, killers or cheat on their spouses - get the picture? Is that how you "see it"? I suggest you get glasses. Then you offer a feeble comeback comparing what I said being equal to you promoting crossing the street blindly - what kind of childish bs is that? Although what you say about corns may be true for the general rule - there are always exceptions to every rule - and you need to learn that. Don't be so harsh to people - u only look like an ass.

If I thought that what I did with my MANY animals was irrisponsible in any way shape or form, why on earth would I post it for all of these members to read? Seems that you need an audience to boost your ego - I simply offered my practice with our very hand tame/captive bread corn snakes to someone who was looking for information - your way or the highway theory could've been posted in a much more polite manner than you did and u deserved everything I said to you.

I can see that you live by your quotes and are very familiar with your rectom as you have your head in so far that you can't see the light of day.

Regarding your forwarnings of backlash? lol ur the only egotistic, over opinionated person that's posted nasty comments. Other comments by members members who didn't do things the way we did - voiced their opinions in an adult manner. You could stand to learn a lot from others if you could only open your eyes long enough to look.

Feel free to rebutt this - or just get over it, and yourself.

Rosana

 

[ErikH]

If you want to feed in a separate enclosure, the easiest thing to do is to use one of those Glad or Ziploc hard containers. The ones that are like little tupperware containers. Put a couple of small holes in the lid. Put the food item in the container, followed by the snake, then put the lid on. You can put snake, prey and container back in his enclosure, and check on him in a little while. More than likely there will be a snake but no prey. Depending on how good a feeder he is, you may not even need the lid.

 

[Beardo]

I am done with this thread since I can see that even attempting to enlighten certain individuals to the dangers of their current husbandry practices is akin to banging my head against a proverbial wall. My comments must ring true to some extent, otherwise I doubt they would've given birth to such an immensely emotional diatribe. Whatever the case may be, when you come home one day to find one of your snakes resting peacefully in the gullet of one of its cagemates, don't come crying foul on here. One last thing.....

I suggest you get glasses.

You're a couple of decades late on ths suggestion, but I greatly appreciate your concern for my optometrical well-being.

 

[BedroomEyzOfBlu]

Ahhhh be the "bigger" man and walk away lol - that's the first RIGHT thing you've done in this thread. At least now we won't all have to watch you try and come off like some greater than thou individual using BIG words - as if to think we would be impressed or believe that MUST know what ur talking about with 100% of all snake species just because you are suffering from a bad case of verbal diarhea. Unlike you, I don't need to use big words to get my point across/discuss an issue just to try to appear bigger than I am.

If you had bothered to ask, in the 5 years that we had the corns (they were later sold) they remained in good health from day 1 (as babies) to the last day in our possession (full grown males). I'm sure u'll try to find something negative to say here too - have fun with it. I never once claimed to be a snake expert, but merely stated our situation.

The next time you feel like bashing someone or accusing them of being irresponsible, may I suggest that you approach it more politely - especially when you don't have all the information pertaining to the subject.

I normally don't waste my time on disrespectful people like yourself, however, since you took a personal attack on me, I felt that you deserved to be set straight. Nice attempt on trying to make me appear to be the "guilty" one with your comments "My comments must ring true to some extent, otherwise I doubt they would've given birth to such an immensely emotional diatribe" - sounds like the kettle calling itself black. All you continue to do is voice ignorant comments that you have no personal basis to judge them on. I'm sure that your attitude and comments will reflect very well on you here.

I trust u'll do the smart thing.

Rosana

 

[Gigas]

Bedroom stop acting like a child, i would regard his advice and take note, david sounds like he knows alot more than you about herps. you have been irresponsible with your pets do not try deny it if you had done any research into your snake you would know how often corns canabalise, and did you see that pic with the ball python that was left with a mouse?
I say do what ever you want in the end i and more than half the people on the forumn dont care but is not us who deal witht the consequences, and dont say dave started it cos im sure most snake owners would have alot worse to say to you

 

[Mushroom Spore]

words

Seconding all of this.

 

[ErikH]

The live prey vs. prekilled or frozen/thawed issue is as hotly debated in the reptile forums as the handle/don't handle issue is on this forum. I have heard excellent arguments for both, and I think it really boils down to which one you are more comfortable with, and convienience. For me personally, frozen/thawed is the way to go, because I have no intention or interest in raising feeder mice or rats, and it is much easier to keep a couple dozen in the freezer than to run out every week and buy a mouse or two. I do know that most of those who advocate feeding live will tell you to keep an eye on the snake until it takes the prey to avoid winding up with a chewed up snake. I know of some very reputable ball python breeders who feed live without problems, so I know it can be done, it just isn't for me.

 

[Beardo]

I said I was done with this thread, but since it seems to have established some semblance of civility, I suppose I can rejoin the discussion.

You see....one of the main promises of many live-prey advocates is that they "supervise" their feedings....they "keep a close eye" on them....anyone who claims to do this has never had a snake bitten or injured by a live rodent (yet), otherwise they would realise how silly the assumption that one could intervene quickly enough should a live feeding go awry actually is.

When I first started keeping snakes I fed live rodents (I didn't know any better and this was before I became privvy to the internet forum world)....after a few "successful" feedings one of the mice decided to latch onto the head of one of my Ball Pythons, leaving the snake bloodied and scarred for the rest of its life. My immediate reaction was to feed only pre-killed prey items, shortly followed by the switch to frozen/thawed. TRUST ME.....no matter how good you think your reflexes are, there is not a human being on this planet capable of successfully stopping a rodent from biting a snake if it decides to/has the opportunity to do so. A snake strike happens in the blink of an eye, and a rodent faced with the choice of biting or death will do what it can to survive. The only safe rodent is a dead rodent, and there is no way around this fact. Live rodents have the potential to injure or kill a snake and 99% of the time are an unecessary method of feeding a snake.

If you think you can safely "supervise" a live feeding, you are very gullible and the only way you will learn the error of such thinking is when one of your snakes suffers at the hand of your negligence. Thats the thing about these message boards.....the knowledge of the dangers of feeding live rodents is out there for all to see, yet many people continue to do so with little reason other than personal preference. We are entrusted with the well-being of our captives and this includes eliminating any and all potential hazards to their health that are within our power. Nobody has to feed live....they choose to. Every choice has consequences...our animals cannot choose, yet they are the ones who ultimately reap the brunt of the results of their owner's negligence.

 

[YouLosePayUp]

I said I was done with this thread, but since it seems to have established some semblance of civility, I suppose I can rejoin the discussion.

You see....one of the main promises of many live-prey advocates is that they "supervise" their feedings....they "keep a close eye" on them....anyone who claims to do this has never had a snake bitten or injured by a live rodent (yet), otherwise they would realise how silly the assumption that one could intervene quickly enough should a live feeding go awry actually is.

When I first started keeping snakes I fed live rodents (I didn't know any better and this was before I became privvy to the internet forum world)....after a few "successful" feedings one of the mice decided to latch onto the head of one of my Ball Pythons, leaving the snake bloodied and scarred for the rest of its life. My immediate reaction was to feed only pre-killed prey items, shortly followed by the switch to frozen/thawed. TRUST ME.....no matter how good you think your reflexes are, there is not a human being on this planet capable of successfully stopping a rodent from biting a snake if it decides to/has the opportunity to do so. A snake strike happens in the blink of an eye, and a rodent faced with the choice of biting or death will do what it can to survive. The only safe rodent is a dead rodent, and there is no way around this fact. Live rodents have the potential to injure or kill a snake and 99% of the time are an unecessary method of feeding a snake.

If you think you can safely "supervise" a live feeding, you are very gullible and the only way you will learn the error of such thinking is when one of your snakes suffers at the hand of your negligence. Thats the thing about these message boards.....the knowledge of the dangers of feeding live rodents is out there for all to see, yet many people continue to do so with little reason other than personal preference. We are entrusted with the well-being of our captives and this includes eliminating any and all potential hazards to their health that are within our power. Nobody has to feed live....they choose to. Every choice has consequences...our animals cannot choose, yet they are the ones who ultimately reap the brunt of the results of their owner's negligence.

Now that I am off work it's my turn. I feel I should step in on this subject as I am the one if any to blame as I do the feeding of the snakes in the household. Rosana doesn't have the heart to see "little cute fuzzies" get eaten. With the corns when we purchased them (from a breeder not a pet store) We had asked if they could be kept in the same tank. The words spoken from this breeder we're kings are cannibalistic, corns are not. Therefore we set them up in a nice display tank in our living room and nothing ever happened. By the way the corns were always always always fed pre-killed mice. The reasoning for me to go ahead and risk my Ball was that we bought it from a petstore with this phrase attached "It won't eat for us and we don't know how long it's been without food therefore no guarantee" I left the Ball alone for a week and then put in a pre-killed mouse overnight. The mouse was still there the next day. Chances are that this thing may have never had a rodent before and didn't have a clue what was sitting infront of him. My common knowledge and experience has shown me that if the snake is hungry and there is something warm and moving infront of him its gonna get eaten. This is the only reason I tried live prey. In the month we've had him he's eaten 4 times 2 live in the first two weeks and now 2 pre-killed. It was more feeding live out of necessity than choosing/prefering to feed live.

 

[Mina]

We got a little off subject, but since no one asked, I'll tell you. I'm going to be feeding him frozen thawed prey. He will be eating rat pups. He was feed frozen thawed and in a seperate container while he was in the pet store and Matthias is insistent that we continue the practice.
I wouldn't feed live prey, period. Unless the snake would eat no other way. I waited this long to get a snake partly because I was uncomfortable with the idea of the prey. I have had pet rats for many years. I won't feed live because of the danger to the snake, as far as the rest of the moral implacations go, I pass.
By the way, I was not trying to start WWIII here. I asked a simple question about how to care for my snake from people who would know, and have more herp experience than myself. Things seem to have gotten a bit......heated. That was not my intention.

 

[YouLosePayUp]

There are always a few things that attract attention. Live food for snakes, and handling for T's. Just check any post stating Handling pic and there will be about 10 pages of discussion whether or not to do it.

 

[ErikH]

I left the Ball alone for a week and then put in a pre-killed mouse overnight. The mouse was still there the next day. Chances are that this thing may have never had a rodent before and didn't have a clue what was sitting infront of him. My common knowledge and experience has shown me that if the snake is hungry and there is something warm and moving infront of him its gonna get eaten. This is the only reason I tried live prey. In the month we've had him he's eaten 4 times 2 live in the first two weeks and now 2 pre-killed. It was more feeding live out of necessity than choosing/prefering to feed live.

Like I said, I have heard convincing arguments both for and against live feeding. I don't do it, but I won't tell you it's wrong. I will tell you something about ball pythons, though. They have a tendancy to "imprint" on prey items. It could very well be that your Ball never had a mouse before, but perhaps rat-pups instead. Once a ball python settles on a type of prey, it is not always easy to get him to switch to another type. Now that you have him eating mice, and he has taken pre-killed, he should be able to eat frozen/thawed too.

 

[Gigas]

if the snake only eats warm stuff, try defrosting the pinkys in a sandwich bag in a cup of hot water, thats what i do and youlosepayup, slap that dealer upside the head

 

[ErikH]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the baggie part, thanks. Don't get 'em wet, it takes the scent off of them.

 

[Beardo]

With the corns when we purchased them (from a breeder not a pet store) We had asked if they could be kept in the same tank. The words spoken from this breeder we're kings are cannibalistic, corns are not.

Well, quite frankly, that "breeder" is an idiot. Cornsnakes, especially young ones are definitely known to be cannabilistic.

Don't get 'em wet, it takes the scent off of them.

lol...Nope. If anything it makes the scent stronger. I (and just about every other f/t feeder I know of) always thawed my rodents in warm/hot water.....the results almost never varied. The only snake I ever had that wouldn't eat them wet was a finicky sub-adult Jungle Carpet Python who was also a pain to switch over to rats (which I was told could not be done with this specific snake). Thawing them in water is alot faster and more practical IMO.

 

[ErikH]

I do thaw in water, I just bag them first. My BP won't take them wet. My son's Sonoran gopher on the other hand, would probably take them still frozen

 

[atavuss]

I said I was done with this thread, but since it seems to have established some semblance of civility, I suppose I can rejoin the discussion.

You see....one of the main promises of many live-prey advocates is that they "supervise" their feedings....they "keep a close eye" on them....anyone who claims to do this has never had a snake bitten or injured by a live rodent (yet), otherwise they would realise how silly the assumption that one could intervene quickly enough should a live feeding go awry actually is.

When I first started keeping snakes I fed live rodents (I didn't know any better and this was before I became privvy to the internet forum world)....after a few "successful" feedings one of the mice decided to latch onto the head of one of my Ball Pythons, leaving the snake bloodied and scarred for the rest of its life. My immediate reaction was to feed only pre-killed prey items, shortly followed by the switch to frozen/thawed. TRUST ME.....no matter how good you think your reflexes are, there is not a human being on this planet capable of successfully stopping a rodent from biting a snake if it decides to/has the opportunity to do so. A snake strike happens in the blink of an eye, and a rodent faced with the choice of biting or death will do what it can to survive. The only safe rodent is a dead rodent, and there is no way around this fact. Live rodents have the potential to injure or kill a snake and 99% of the time are an unecessary method of feeding a snake.

If you think you can safely "supervise" a live feeding, you are very gullible and the only way you will learn the error of such thinking is when one of your snakes suffers at the hand of your negligence. Thats the thing about these message boards.....the knowledge of the dangers of feeding live rodents is out there for all to see, yet many people continue to do so with little reason other than personal preference. We are entrusted with the well-being of our captives and this includes eliminating any and all potential hazards to their health that are within our power. Nobody has to feed live....they choose to. Every choice has consequences...our animals cannot choose, yet they are the ones who ultimately reap the brunt of the results of their owner's negligence.

so........it seems like it is your way or the highway? I have had an adult male ball python for around 10 years and all this time I have tried every trick that I have heard/read about to get it to feed on frozen/thawed/pre-killed and it just won't take anything unless it is alive and moving.
I do have to hand it to you........you seem to have a knack for beating a subject to death.
and unlike you, this is all I will respond to on this subject

 

[Beardo]

so........it seems like it is your way or the highway? I have had an adult male ball python for around 10 years and all this time I have tried every trick that I have heard/read about to get it to feed on frozen/thawed/pre-killed and it just won't take anything unless it is alive and moving.
I do have to hand it to you........you seem to have a knack for beating a subject to death.
and unlike you, this is all I will respond to on this subject

If I had a quarter for every time I heard this from someone that I got a snake from and then soon afterwards got said snake to take a f/t rat, I'd be richer than the Hiltons. My way works.....yours is apparently lacking in some shape or form since you have to feed your snake live. I've worked with species that are notoriously difficult feeders (wild caught baby Ball Pythons, Candoia, neonate Grey-Banded Kingsnakes, etc) and I have never failed in getting a snake to take f/t prey. Maybe I'm just "lucky" but I doubt it. :?