Snake as a feeder for T

[cacoseraph]

I'm not gonna bash you for wanting to feed a snake to your spider. Not something I would do but...whatever.

The thing I can't wrap my head around is the line I quoted above. It's impractical to buy a few dollars worth of crickets while you're at the pet shop with the snake but it is practical to spend $20 on a perfectly healthy snake only to kill it and feed it to an animal that doesn't require snakes (or any vertebrate, for that matter) in its diet? Is that what you're saying? :?

tht makes perfect sense to me. i hated having to go to the pestore every week or two for crickets. however... if you fed a relatively massive snake to a spider it could probably use the materials and energy gained therefrom for 4-6 months. genei has said that the $ is not the problem, but the convenience

Also, the "calcium is bad for tarantulas" thing hasn't been confirmed yet. Haven't heard anything about it for a while. Has anything been published yet? Is anyone still working to figure out if it is a problem?

heh, i was reading and reading and the second to last post has what i want to say
that calcium thing... i don't buy it. there are too many counter examples of people ONLY feeding vert diets to stuff for years that are doing fine. there could be a little bit of truth... but i don't think it is nearly as bad as the threads i have read supporting the theory make it out to be. i might just have to start breeding pinkies to see if i can force the issue one way or the other







also, i personally think a very random contribution like a snake could be a good source of micronutrients that have been bleeding out of the spider for years.


as for parasites... it is most most unlikely that any parasites can be transfered via a tarantula eating them. the tarantula has a micrometric filter system in its mouth and upper digestive system that prevents anything larger than a few microns (i believe) from enter the lower digestive system. parasites would probably have to enter via the anus or booklungs

 

[David_F]

...however... if you fed a relatively massive snake to a spider it could probably use the materials and energy gained therefrom for 4-6 months. genei has said that the $ is not the problem, but the convenience

Yeah, I agree. I've fed mice and lizards to tarantulas before when I wasn't able to get crickets or roaches for extended periods of time. I just think that, even though money isn't a problem for this guy, it's still not a practical solution to buy a healthy snake when he has access to crickets and his spider eats them. There will probably be some leftovers from the snake so, even though the spider will be full for quite a while, it seems like a waste of a healthy animal to me. Again, though, I'm not saying he shouldn't do it. It doesn't affect me one way or the other. Just giving my reasons for its impracticality. Like I said, I think his best bet would be to get a dying or dead hatchling, which it sounds like he's gonna try to do.

also, i personally think a very random contribution like a snake could be a good source of micronutrients that have been bleeding out of the spider for years.

Totally agree. I know tarantulas can live and breed just fine on a cricket- or roach-only diet but a diverse selection of prey could really help.

 

[cacoseraph]

Totally agree. I know tarantulas can live and breed just fine on a cricket- or roach-only diet but a diverse selection of prey could really help.

i have some doubts about the very long term viablibity of crickets as a single feeder species. i suspect there are micronutrients that are necesary in such tiny quantities that they can be passed to eggs and keep a spider going its whole life... but when the wild source runs out then micronutrient depression and failue sets in. maybe a few generations would need to pass before like, macroscopic effects are visible. i dunno. just a feeling i have.


i somewhat suspect that dyskinetic syndrome is some kind of nutrient unbalance (in the rare cases when it isn't pesticide poisoning =P )

 

[Travis K]

staged

but aren't most of these documentaries in the most part staged and even somewhat exagerated to capture the publics' interest in it?

Yeah, I would bet that almost all of this type of Nature Show stage or influence natural attacks to get it on film. Other wise they are waiting for Very long amounts of time just to get one clip for their documentary. So yes, I wonder the same thing.

How offten are those clips of small animals and inverts staged or influenced?

 

[cacoseraph]

Yeah, I would bet that almost all of this type of Nature Show stage or influence natural attacks to get it on film. Other wise they are waiting for Very long amounts of time just to get one clip for their documentary. So yes, I wonder the same thing.

How offten are those clips of small animals and inverts staged or influenced?

they are staged most of the time

no one would watch a show that has 59 minutes and 42 seconds of an empty forest floor with a dark hole in it... and then 18 seconds of a cricket walking into screen and being dragged down the hole


the setup for the fer-de-lance shot was pretty sweet. it had a like, cutaway burrow that let them shoot such great shots

 

[Travis K]

snakes

well how abbout this...

I was driving home from work on days and saw a snake in the road that had been run over. I stopped and grabbed it, hoping that I might be abble to save it. Well it died and i decide to feed it to my dubia roaches.

Wouldn't some of the nutrients eventually get to my T's? Even the ones that arren't typically found in Roaches?

I have to say that I think it is more important that your feeders get a varried diet so one can ensure their T's are getting every thing theey need. To an extent that is, I do plan on feeding a pinking after my T's molt and start feeding heavily agian.

 

[cacoseraph]

well how abbout this...

I was driving home from work on days and saw a snake in the road that had been run over. I stopped and grabbed it, hoping that I might be abble to save it. Well it died and i decide to feed it to my dubia roaches.

Wouldn't some of the nutrients eventually get to my T's? Even the ones that arren't typically found in Roaches?

I have to say that I think it is more important that your feeders get a varried diet so one can ensure their T's are getting every thing theey need. To an extent that is, I do plan on feeding a pinking after my T's molt and start feeding heavily agian.

i don't know. i have to assume being metabolised might change some stuff. cuz remember, we aren't just talking about atoms of moly we are talking about some decently complex molecules.

i imagine having the the increased diversity in your roaches food would be better than not. but would it give the same nutrients as feeding the snake directly to the spider? probably not. of course, just as easily there could be nutrient precursors in the snake that HAVE to be somehow metabolized before being useful to the spider. nutrition in humans is messy... nutrion in bugs is rediculous

i definitely agree that safe diversity is important for feeders. i do think that people are not careful enough with the stuff they put in their feeder cages. bioaccumulation is a bitch in something that can live 30+ years and eats hundreds to thousands of feeders over it's lifetime. levels of pesticides and toxins that are not high enough to bother a roach would eventually accumulate in the spider and cause harm.

 

[Travis K]

i definitely agree that safe diversity is important for feeders. i do think that people are not careful enough with the stuff they put in their feeder cages. bioaccumulation is a bitch in something that can live 30+ years and eats hundreds to thousands of feeders over it's lifetime. levels of pesticides and toxins that are not high enough to bother a roach would eventually accumulate in the spider and cause harm.

Interesting point! While we do buy organic milk, we don't always buy everything else organic, and being as we feeed our roaches primarily scraps or food that has gone bad, mostly veggies, i would assume that my Roaches are exposed to some level of pesticides. Now we all know that assumptions make an "ass" out of "u" and "me", but it definately has merit here. I would also "assume" that my feeder roaches are better than the crappy crix i could get at Petco, being as i can gauranteee what they have been fed. I know i can tell a physical difference in my Leopard Geckos, but they are verts and the T's are inverts so to "assume" the same for T's would just be a guess.

Maybe some day I can grow organic Roaches? And be confident that they are truely organic.

 

[cacoseraph]

Maybe some day I can grow organic Roaches? And be confident that they are truely organic.

i think it would be immensely personally satisfying to grow a garden to feed myself and my roaches to feed my predators

it would kind of like be turning sunlight and soil into centipedes and scorpions. and THAT is some mojo i can get on board with!

(i like taras better than scorps, but they provided a better alliteration. heh.)

 

[Travis K]

Cocoseraph

it would kind of like be turning sunlight and soil into centipedes and scorpions. and THAT is some mojo i can get on board with!

Cocoseraph...

You are my new arachnoboards HERO!
:worship: :worship: :worship:

 

[LasidoraGT]

while i was watching National Geography channel a while ago i seen a Tarantula devour a snake. I'm planning to feed my 9" T apophysis a garter snakes that only cost 19 dollars in our local pet store. Now my question, can a garter snake harm my tarantula? should i prekill it before i give it to my tarantula ?

thats terrible, y would u feed a snake to a spider? for some reason i'll feed bugs to animals ut i couldnt ever feed other things like mice or fish or w/e thats terrible

 

[cacoseraph]

Cocoseraph...

You are my new arachnoboards HERO!
:worship: :worship: :worship:

ha! thanks

 

[LasidoraGT]

Its a strange world we live in when theres starving children somewhere out there, but a pet spider gets a $19 dollar meal. In fact Im eating a .59 cent ramon noodles for dinner.

Although I have fed snakes to spiders before, and I dont feal that I'm a "sicko". Here's a T. apophysis eating a california king baby. I hatched the snake myself, and it never did well. In fact it was just about dead when I fed it to the spider.
Later, Tom

ahhhhhhgggg! that terrible
feed ur **** t's INSECTS not snakes, mice, or w/e poor little cute animal u happen to find

 

[LasidoraGT]

The reminds me of an article by Rick West who talked about staging a T blondi feeding on a Fer-De-Lance for a documentary in one of the old ATS journals.

Don't believe all of those "interactions" you see in documentaries, they are mostly all staged.

hmmm worlds biggest T and a highly venomos snake

 

[cacoseraph]

ahhhhhhgggg! that terrible
feed ur **** t's INSECTS not snakes, mice, or w/e poor little cute animal u happen to find

i dub thee, disciple of phil jones


for the record, those of us out of kindergarten find that kind of post difficult to read.

 

[PhilK]

Micronutrient imbalance from eating only crickets? I personally think that is a complete and utter load of rubbish. My T supplier feeds his Ts on nothing BUT crickets from sling to death, and they breed very well for him and thrive.

As for staging docos, and the argument that "who wants to see 50 minutes of a hole in the ground" ... you people DO realise (I hope) that they would never put the 50 minutes of footage of a hole onto the doco, right? So what they do (and I have a mate in Colorado learning how to make nature docos) is spend days and days and days out on the scene waiting. It's a huge waiting game. Then the 10 minutes of good footage they get is used... It is absolutely bloody stupid to say "most of the interactions in docos is staged".. HA!

Sure, some bits may be, and some docos would need to stage certain things but it's not like the film crew come with a truckload of zebra to release in front of lions, or mice in front of snakes...

 

[NevularScorpion]

I'm not gonna bash you for wanting to feed a snake to your spider. Not something I would do but...whatever.

The thing I can't wrap my head around is the line I quoted above. It's impractical to buy a few dollars worth of crickets while you're at the pet shop with the snake but it is practical to spend $20 on a perfectly healthy snake only to kill it and feed it to an animal that doesn't require snakes (or any vertebrate, for that matter) in its diet? Is that what you're saying? :?

no thats not what i meant, this has nothing to do with the $20 snake. what i meant is that i don't want to feed my ts crickets regularly since i already have roaches and im just experimenting for a suitable feeders for my Ts thats why i don't mind paying 19 dollars just to try it for the first time. ofcourse i'm not going to feed my ts snake every week. I only feed my Ts vertebrates once a year. there is a difference between a cricket and a snake. a cricket is a regular feeder while a snake or other vertebrates are occational feeder.

 

[PhilK]

Makes sense to me that if your T likes crickets you should breed crickets instead of roaches.. but you know, that's just me haha

 

[cacoseraph]

Micronutrient imbalance from eating only crickets? I personally think that is a complete and utter load of rubbish. My T supplier feeds his Ts on nothing BUT crickets from sling to death, and they breed very well for him and thrive.

As for staging docos, and the argument that "who wants to see 50 minutes of a hole in the ground" ... you people DO realise (I hope) that they would never put the 50 minutes of footage of a hole onto the doco, right? So what they do (and I have a mate in Colorado learning how to make nature docos) is spend days and days and days out on the scene waiting. It's a huge waiting game. Then the 10 minutes of good footage they get is used... It is absolutely bloody stupid to say "most of the interactions in docos is staged".. HA!

Sure, some bits may be, and some docos would need to stage certain things but it's not like the film crew come with a truckload of zebra to release in front of lions, or mice in front of snakes...

hardly any predators feed on a single species, naturally. the ones that do, tend to be adapted to it. in nature when a predator has the number of species it can target decrease this sometimes leads to major problems

speaking of major problems, just about every single tarantula ailment has unknown diagnosis and prognosis.

in just about every other culturing hobby it is well known and accepted that there are micronutrient needs that MUST be addressed, either to prevent undue mortality or increase fecundity.


i personally see a pattern here.


also, i already said i expect that micronutrient drain would possibly take generations to express dramatically. no doubt that many many spiders have been eggraved on just crickets. crickets are a great species to try to single feed since they are detritivore/omnivore and are likely built to wring the hell out of nutrients. and it could be entirely possible that with the right cricket diet micronutrient drain would not occur. but i like to hedge my bets against it and shake up my feeders

 

[hellahigh]

What The Hell Do You Want To Do That For ? ? ?

I thought National Geographic was supposed to influence viewers in a positive way ?

Let me guess. To post it on youtube under the obligatory title 'TARANTULA vs SNAKE.' Just like all the other titles posted by morons who also have small penises.

Its just needless, uneccessary and sad. I hope the $19 snake wins.

LMAO , i'll put money on the T