Sick spider? what to do?

[Benny]

Update: came home tonight and saw her on the other side of the enclosure!

 

[Tarac]

I hope for the best... Could you ID the moth at all? It might not help, but it might give you more of a clue (or eliminate a possibility). I don't know much about Australian invertebrate fauna but I know there are several common US moths that have some degree of toxicity to them. Arctiid moths, for example, are often a little toxic... just a thought.

I don't think the former Arctiidae (now lumped into the Erebidae, tribe Arctiinae but I hear from the moth experts here at the McGuire center that this is going to change again- they went Noctuidae and then Erebidae in a very short period of time and may yet be moved again- stunning moth tribe, I rear as many species as I can get my hands on locally- easily rivaling the beauty of the ever-gorgeous Saturnids) are toxic to inverts though. Birds and mammals don't like them or their larvae, usually due to host plant toxins accumulated. But this has no effect on invertebrate predators as far as I know. I have lost numerous larvae of many genera to unnoticed assorted hitch hiker spiders and even another caterpillar genera, a predatory Lycaenidae, that were hiding out on host plants I didn't check thoroughly enough before introducing to my larvae. I even had one species of Arctiinae that ate other Arctiinae pupae and larvae as well as paper towels and if I held one for long even munched on my cuticles lol.

If anything specific, I would guess contaminated food as well but really nothing but wild speculation. Sometimes they just die. Have you tried forcing it to drink by putting a drop of water on the fangs? I've pulled a couple dehydrated slings back from the brink of death this way. Sometimes they dehydrate faster than you think although each time in my case it was very shortly after a molt.

EDIT: Great news! Glad she looks to be pulling through for you. Maybe just a little dehydrated after all. That slow unresponsiveness is pretty characteristic of dehydration in spiders based on my observations.

 

[McGuiverstein]

Glad to hear she's doing better! But I do agree with those who suspect that residual pesticides on the moth, or even the moth itself were the culprit. It seems more than coincidence that she seemed to get sick so soon after eating it. I would never feed my spiders anything from outside for this reason. In fact, I think I'm a little too careful. I wait a few days after buying crickets at any pet store before feeding them to my spiders, just to make sure they're not sick.

 

[jecraque]

I don't think the former Arctiidae (now lumped into the Erebidae, tribe Arctiinae but I hear from the moth experts here at the McGuire center that this is going to change again- they went Noctuidae and then Erebidae in a very short period of time and may yet be moved again- stunning moth tribe, I rear as many species as I can get my hands on locally- easily rivaling the beauty of the ever-gorgeous Saturnids) are toxic to inverts though. Birds and mammals don't like them or their larvae, usually due to host plant toxins accumulated. But this has no effect on invertebrate predators as far as I know. I have lost numerous larvae of many genera to unnoticed assorted hitch hiker spiders and even another caterpillar genera, a predatory Lycaenidae, that were hiding out on host plants I didn't check thoroughly enough before introducing to my larvae. I even had one species of Arctiinae that ate other Arctiinae pupae and larvae as well as paper towels and if I held one for long even munched on my cuticles lol.

You know, I try to keep up in spiders and some of the vertebrate taxa (where it's considerably easier to do so), but beetles and butterflies I can never catch up with. I'll defer to your expertise on this one--I think I just knew about the potential toxicity and knew that my lycosids would shun several of our local tiger moths and connected the dots in my mind. Rearing lepidopterans has been my next-step project for a while now, to the extent that I've gathered some husbandry stuff together, it just hasn't happened yet... Maybe this year it's finally time.

 

[Tarac]

It's a lot of fun. Leps and Coleopterans are overwhelming in terms of taxonomy but if you just focus on a few favorite groups it's not so crazy. And stick to local stuff, which is usually a legal obligation anyway.

I can say that rearing 200 moth larvae is A LOT more work than rearing 200 spiders. By the time they are late instar larvae you are hunting every host tree/plant around and taking entire branches the size of your body to feed those little munchers every day, or at least for many Arctiinae (non-adult feeding species) and Saturniidae (which are all non-adult feeding). Beetles are much easier as long as they don't eat anything weird. I reared a bunch of our native giant palm weevil one year for kicks, had to use a complicated protocol for an artificial diet that was quite nasty but it worked. Brewer's yeast, pineapple, agar, vitamins and all added. It was very fun though when they all started eclosing.

Spiders are incredibly easy comparatively though but it's fun to hunt around your area and find local critters to rear. You learn so much about your region's ecosystems and the animals found it that way, inevitably you end up running into all forms of life that you may not have even known was right in your back yard until you started looking in ways and in places that you had not before.

---------- Post added 01-16-2013 at 12:03 PM ----------

Glad to hear she's doing better! But I do agree with those who suspect that residual pesticides on the moth, or even the moth itself were the culprit. It seems more than coincidence that she seemed to get sick so soon after eating it. I would never feed my spiders anything from outside for this reason. In fact, I think I'm a little too careful. I wait a few days after buying crickets at any pet store before feeding them to my spiders, just to make sure they're not sick.

I hold mine too. I also kill and dispose of any that fall on the ground even, I won't pick them up and use them after they are contaminated. You just never know and it's not a hardship to simply dispose of them and use another but it is terrible if you accidentally contaminate your tarantulas.

 

[McGuiverstein]

I also kill and dispose of any that fall on the ground even, I won't pick them up and use them after they are contaminated. You just never know and it's not a hardship to simply dispose of them and use another but it is terrible if you accidentally contaminate your tarantulas.

Haha I'm so glad you said that! I also kill/dispose of them if they fall on the ground (or anywhere else that I don't feel is clean for that matter). Who knows what I might have walked in and brought inside.. This, coupled with my neurotic hand/tong/enclosure/EVERYTHING washing/sterilization makes caring for my spiders an absurdly tedious process. Drives my girlfriend absolutely crazy, but I care about my bugs..

 

[spiderengineer]

Haha I'm so glad you said that! I also kill/dispose of them if they fall on the ground (or anywhere else that I don't feel is clean for that matter). Who knows what I might have walked in and brought inside.. This, coupled with my neurotic hand/tong/enclosure/EVERYTHING washing/sterilization makes caring for my spiders an absurdly tedious process. Drives my girlfriend absolutely crazy, but I care about my bugs..

If a cricket comes into contact with place I know that gets cleaned with chemicals I throw away even if the last time the area was clean was weeks ago.

 

[McGuiverstein]

If a cricket comes into contact with place I know that gets cleaned with chemicals I throw away even if the last time the area was clean was weeks ago.

Still can't hurt to be on the safe side. You just can't be sure there isn't any remaining chemical residue..

 

[spiderengineer]

Still can't hurt to be on the safe side. You just can't be sure there isn't any remaining chemical residue..

yep especially when the spider cost like 30 or more dollars while a cricket runs about a nickle

 

[McGuiverstein]

yep especially when the spider cost like 30 or more dollars while a cricket runs about a nickle

Haha my argument exactly when my girlfriend freaks out when I throw away a cricket. She gets so mad about me "wasting money" X).

 

[spiderengineer]

Haha my argument exactly when my girlfriend freaks out when I throw away a cricket. She gets so mad about me "wasting money" X).

you should be lucky she is more concern about wasting money rather than the fact you have spider.

 

[alpine]

you should be lucky she is more concern about wasting money rather than the fact you have spider.

Yeah definitely. It is much harder to enjoy the hobby when your family has heart attacks about spiders. My family is tolerant but they don't want to see them or hear about them. Boyfriend likes them quite a bit on the other hand.

 

[McGuiverstein]

you should be lucky she is more concern about wasting money rather than the fact you have spider.

Haha you make a very very good point. She wasn't thrilled about them at first, but she definitely has warmed up to them. She even calls them cute at times X). I think their "happy dance" while they're eating is what did it haha.

 

[alpine]

Haha you make a very very good point. She wasn't thrilled about them at first, but she definitely has warmed up to them. She even calls them cute at times X). I think their "happy dance" while they're eating is what did it haha.

My boyfriend just thinks it is strange when they do that, he still watches them do it though

 

[McGuiverstein]

My boyfriend just thinks it is strange when they do that, he still watches them do it though

Haha it is pretty funny to watch. The girlfriend loves it though. I think seeing them do it made her a little less nervous around them. It's difficult to be scared of something when it spins around in a circle and bobs up and down while it eats X).

 

[Benny]

Ok i got up this morning and shes still alive, her legs are now free from the "death grip". however she is still looking a bit lethargic so i'll have to keep in "ICU" for at least another week. keep you guys updated with photos.

sorry for bad shots - all i got is an iphone a.t.m. try to get some camera shots hopefully when she recovers.

 

[rob0t]

Definitely looking better than the last pick. Good luck!

 

[spiderengineer]

I am glad he is doing better

 

[Benny]

3rd day. made a SLIGHT improvement from yesterday - a tad more active. i also swapped a new ICU. she still goes around the place slowly as if she was drunk (dehydration?)
(note: she is not rearing up on purpose, there is a slope)

 

[alpine]

Maybe spritz a little bit of water on the wall so she can get something to drink?